Why I regret joining the DDF and not a fan of Open Development...

[Ghostickles]

Did you expect her to visit the high-school with the age of 5?
No?
Well, why not give ED some time to grow as well? Sure, the DDF is not fully implemented yet - indeed, large parts are missing. But there are still many, many years left to grow.
It is not necessary to give up your hopes and whishes about the game - it is necessary to allow it to develop.

(Really, when FD speaks about a 10 year plan - how do people think, these years will be filled, if everything is already present at the start? 'Horizons' is the next big step towards the goal. The NEXT step, not the LAST! Have patience - and faith!)

I did. I'm used to games at a certain price point having a certain amount of function and/or content that I did not feel ED represents.
The above completely stupid simply because of FD's asking price and the state of the games content/performance overall. If they had priced their game accordingly the majority of negative feedback would have been quelled, but too late. $30 is about where I can value the base game, all present content included. FD are trying to make a profit more than a game, imo. Stupid move because a good game simply sells itself, it doesn't need fancy trailers or hype.
OP, if it helps; I make you look like a choir boy. They did what they did and had a pack of rabid hype defenders for every angle. Vertical Slice? Magic Patch? Holistic Launch? The Post Purchase Rationale was also helpful.
@Psycho Romeo, the whining was in response to FD's actions, not the other way around*. 'Braben is making the game he wants to play' was the mantra, touted somewhat less as of late.
No doubt DDF stuff will arrive, in some fashion, after some time, doubtful anytime soon though.
Probably not even getting Thargoids soon, which is too bad, I wanted to see what all the hub-bub was about them, guess it'll be pay to fight Thargoids in the future. So many posts about a stupid easter egg, its inane leading players on like that.
meh, and Good Luck, FD.
*except missile and python nerfs. Beta feedback seems to also be largely ignored.

 

[JeffRyan]

This is the part I doubt.

I don't. I was there.

For the record PRIOR to the release of Power Play I made the same argument that basically it was delivering Tier 1 NPCs as per the DDA, but the implementation and mechanism of the board game in space (which I do like) has nothing to do with that.

My point wasn't a criticism of either Power Play OR CQC, I enjoy the former and I'm looking forward to the latter. Simply that these two major systems had LITTLE or nothing to do with anything we discussed.

There's a whole bunch of features discussed that have a basic implementation or zero implentation that I feel should have been higher up the priority list, or basically anything from the DDF discussions that isn't in yet.

Unique ships with names, histories anyone?

PS I am not critising the game or their decisions with the OP, or even later. Just pointing out that being aware of the DDF and the DDA has lessened my enjoyment of the awesome game Elite: Dangerous is.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

Don't get me wrong, I have patience. And even some faith left. I think it took a large hit when the big expansions like Power Play and CQC had little to nothing to do with anything we discussed in the DDF. Makes us think 'that' stuff is a bit down the list. And remember the DDF was for the BASE GAME, nothing to do with paid expansions.

Whilst that is obvious now, with the DDF effectively disbanded, I certainly did not see that stated one way or another in advance. Do you have such a reference? I'm not surprised that it is only the base game, and not complaining either (though they did abandon it a bit too soon, IMHO), but I didn't see it stated.

 

[Oddball]

My pennies worth....

I would like to mention something which people seem to forget but I feel has had a huge impact on the development of the game.
Looking back, I think that things had to change when Frontier floated the company on the London Stock Exchange.
Obviously this can create lots of financial benefits for the company and its potential share holders too but there is a downside to this and that
is that the shareholders now demand good dividends on their investment.

At the time, Frontier never told anyone of a ten year
development plan because if Elite Dangerous backers knew that then (during kickstarter) they wouldn't put cash into the game. However, from a
shareholders point of view this is really great news because they know that they are probably going to get a good long term
return on their investment.

Anyway, what I am getting at is this..... The problem with some of these investors/shareholders is that they haven't got a clue
what Elite Dangerous is and therefore have no passion for the game what-so-ever. They only care about the return on their
investment. And this is why Frontier are dragging things out, adding extra content like Wings, CQC & Powerplay. Adding more content
to make development last longer will bring in more and more sales giving better and better dividends to the shareholders.

Anyway, what you've got to ask yourself is 'Is it wrong what FD are doing?'. Well, I suppose it depends on which side of the fence you are on.
Are you a shareholder wanting to make money or are you a gamer who loves the Elite games.

My own opinion on this is that I feel that FD favor the side of the shareholder and are hoping that it is not going to have too much of an effect
on the gamer (me and you).

So if people are not happy with the way the game is heading then they should blame the shareholders because it is in their interests that the game continues development for as long as possible. FD know this and that is why they want to keep them happy.

[EDIT] I would just like to add that at the time when FD floated, DB did state that shareholders would have no influence on the game. You decide.

 

[JeffRyan]

Whilst that is obvious now, with the DDF effectively disbanded, I certainly did not see that stated one way or another in advance. Do you have such a reference? I'm not surprised that it is only the base game, and not complaining either (though they did abandon it a bit too soon, IMHO), but I didn't see it stated.

What I mean is the DDF as is relates to the base game. We all assumed it would continue into the expansions with further discussions. Which it didn't.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Indeed. Had DBOBE not done the "near God-like" powers sales pitch I would not have jontied up to the DDF level. And then I would not be quite so frustrated by the placeholders in the game. Having a feeling that stuff could be better is one thing. Knowing perfectly well that FD have designed a much deeper more satisfying game, and it is not there and they are concentrating on other stuff is quite another.

Occasionally you come across posters on the forum who are unaware of the DDA, and make what they later realise are rather naive statements about gameplay. "Well, we need more things to find, but apart from that exploration is pretty much done, isn't it?" Point then at the DDA and they come back rather chastened. There are folks out there that were not in the DDF but have read the archives, so are almost as aware as the DDFers of the wonders to be found there, but not in the game. I suspect that if I had not ended up in the DDF, I would be one of them. So whilst I sort-of agree with the OP, I suspect I would have been almost as disappointed as I am now if I had not joined. But I would not have the chip on my shoulder and the burning sense of injustice over the near God-likes, which would be much better for me.

I'm one of those who has spent countless hours reading through the DDA, and I have to agree it can be quite frustrating seeing the difference between what the end result may be, and what is currently implemented. But then again, I'm a bit of an optimist, not to mention I'm very good at contextualizing numbers in-game, so I tend to view things in-game as the foundation for something better down the road, and not the end point.

MY greatest source of frustration comes from having been in the game since Alpha, and seeing things I enjoyed get easier because people kept on complaining that it was too hard, or took too long, rather than looking at it as a challenge to be mastered.

Supercruise was my favorite part of the game, and its a shallow reflection of the first iteration of it, where travelling quickly through a system was an art to be mastered. Every time I approach a planet and can't mass shadow brake because the needle is too small to thread at the speeds we now travel is a reminder of when I used to rapidly decelerate close to a planet, listening to my ship's frame creak and groan, my engines whine like crazy, and the screen shake just enough that I feel like I'm shaking too, wondering if I cut my approach too fine, and I'll be dumped out of supercruise, damaging my ship in the process, or I got it right and I'll slip right into the station's sphere of influence.

*sigh*

 

[Memnoch]

What I mean is the DDF as is relates to the base game. We all assumed it would continue into the expansions with further discussions. Which it didn't.

Possibly because they have so much material that was discussed in the DDF to draw on with future expansions. We have the meat, now they just need to add the gravy!

 

[Cody]

So if people are not happy with the way the game is heading then they should blame the shareholders...

Hmm... and who is the major shareholder, eh?

 

[Oddball]

Hmm... and who is the major shareholder, eh?

Exactly!

 

[Sysmon]

Please, not more bloody tags!

It could be made into an Exploration History pane one could open from the Systems map (or even the Galaxy map).

I don't mind the tags, just think they should be on the Galaxy Map, not the Systems map.

S

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

My pennies worth....

I would like to mention something which people seem to forget but I feel has had a huge impact on the development of the game.
Looking back, I think that things had to change when Frontier floated the company on the London Stock Exchange.
Obviously this can create lots of financial benefits for the company and its potential share holders too but there is a downside to this and that
is that the shareholders now demand good dividends on their investment.

At the time, Frontier never told anyone of a ten year
development plan because if Elite Dangerous backers knew that then (during kickstarter) they wouldn't put cash into the game. However, from a
shareholders point of view this is really great news because they know that they are probably going to get a good long term
return on their investment.

Anyway, what I am getting at is this..... The problem with some of these investors/shareholders is that they haven't got a clue
what Elite Dangerous is and therefore have no passion for the game what-so-ever. They only care about the return on their
investment. And this is why Frontier are dragging things out, adding extra content like Wings, CQC & Powerplay. Adding more content
to make development last longer will bring in more and more sales giving better and better dividends to the shareholders.

Anyway, what you've got to ask yourself is 'Is it wrong what FD are doing?'. Well, I suppose it depends on which side of the fence you are on.
Are you a shareholder wanting to make money or are you a gamer who loves the Elite games.

My own opinion on this is that I feel that FD favor the side of the shareholder and are hoping that it is not going to have too much of an effect
on the gamer (me and you).

So if people are not happy with the way the game is heading then they should blame the shareholders because it is in their interests that the game continues development for as long as possible. FD know this and that is why they want to keep them happy.

I certainly recall 10 years being mentioned as the sort of life that FD expected of the game, though not directly linking that to 10 years of development.

I am, for what it's worth, a shareholder and a player. I don't (yet) see them dragging development out. I see them building things that they think will be attractive to prospective players not in the original 84er/space game fan demographic. CQC is a very, very, sensible investment in that regard, even if I would have preferred them to use the resources for fixing core issues and building out more core stuff like exploration and tier 2 NPCs. Powerplay looks like a flop to me, so I regret the resources used on it even more, but I also think they intended it to appeal to that different audience.

Yes, they have to run the company for the benefit of the shareholders. Lots of revenue is generally good for those shareholders, though I note that even what seemed to be stonkingly good news (the launch of the XBox version well before anyone expected it, for example) had little or no effect on the share price, which has been gently declining all year. The problem with FD that I have as a shareholder is the apparent ethics of the company. They do not come across as a class act at all. Their behaviour over offlinegate was awful, and dragging their heels on other promises (not the least of which from my perspective is the God-likes) hardly helps. I am also far from impressed at them springing the 'annual upgrade' rather than expansion thing on us. Sure, they never said ... but I suspect that very few people expected anything other than buying specific expansions (such as landings) that would come in several drops for one price.

 

[Cody]

It could be made into an Exploration History pane one could open from the Systems map...

That'd be fine - and would make much more sense!

 

[el_tel]

...this game is hardly a challenge. NPC's.. do I even need to start talking about them? They are complete brain-dead. It's all so incredibly incomplete and unfinished....

Well, as we probably all know, The Mistress of The Minions was working on vastly improved AI, then got pulled off that to work on something....secret.

But there is hope:

After all, if the NPC 'pirates' just act like psychopaths (opening fire without any demands), then how can we expect players to act any different?

If real life exploration is anything to go by, that can change dramatically with the ability to land on planets. ...

The problem with exploration is that it's just too easy to get around unknown space. Someone recently posted this thread asking why only Earthlikes and Waterworlds ever seem to be tagged, and I replied saying that anything low-paying is just a stepping-stone to the next system, so scanning everything doesn't feel worthwhile (particularly when you can find everything with one honk of the ADS and then see whether there's an ELW or a WW just by looking at the system map).

My fear is the exploration of planetary surfaces will just be more of the same grindy mechanic, especially if it's time-consuming but non-challenging to get down to the surface (no atmosphere means that you don't even have to battle with re-entry to get down safely).

But at least buggy racing will be interesting for a while.

 

[CaptainKremmen]

I'm just glad we don't have The Greatest Game That Was Never Released!

Those projects might deliver endless excitement for the input/design teams... but they are stuff-all fun for the rest of us!

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

The problem with exploration is that it's just too easy to get around unknown space. Someone recently posted this thread asking why only Earthlikes and Waterworlds ever seem to be tagged, and I replied saying that anything low-paying is just a stepping-stone to the next system, so scanning everthing doesn't feel worthwhile (particularly when you can find everything with one honk of the ADS and then see whether there's an ELW or a WW just by looking at the system map.

My fear is the exploration of planetary surfaces will just be more of the same grindy mechanic, especially if it's time-consuming but non-challenging to get down to the surface (no atmosphere means that you don't even have to battle with re-entry to get down safely).

But at least buggy racing will be interesting for a while.

You have pretty much nailed it there. The fact that people have been racing to the core, and the fastest time to Sag A* is less than 9 hours, underlines how far from exploration we are. I wanted to be like Francis Drake (after whom my ship is named - or would be if they kept to that promise) or James Cook, boldly going where no one had been before. I don't even feel like Thomas Cook - at least he created excursion routes. Instead I feel like package holiday tourists with a "It's Sunday so this must be Athens" outlook.

I made the mistake of listening to the audio books from a couple of the E: D books a few weeks ago. The painfully remind you, on almost every page, how simple and dumbed down travel is compared to the vision we were sold. Remember, these books were written following FD approved guidelines, and each blessed by FD. In his book, Drew has a bounty hunter following the traces of a ship that was 8 hours away from him. In the game as played, that ship could be closing in on Sag A*.

Bah, humbug.

But, yes, buggy racing will be fun for a while.

 

[Cody]

The fact that people have been racing to the core, and the fastest time to Sag A* is less than 9 hours, underlines how far from exploration we are.

<nods - sighs>

 

[el_tel]

You have pretty much nailed it there. The fact that people have been racing to the core, and the fastest time to Sag A* is less than 9 hours, underlines how far from exploration we are. I wanted to be like Francis Drake (after whom my ship is named - or would be if they kept to that promise) or James Cook, boldly going where no one had been before. I don't even feel like Thomas Cook - at least he created excursion routes. Instead I feel like package holiday tourists with a "It's Sunday so this must be Athens" outlook.

I made the mistake of listening to the audio books from a couple of the E: D books a few weeks ago. The painfully remind you, on almost every page, how simple and dumbed down travel is compared to the vision we were sold. Remember, these books were written following FD approved guidelines, and each blessed by FD. In his book, Drew has a bounty hunter following the traces of a ship that was 8 hours away from him. In the game as played, that ship could be closing in on Sag A*.

Bah, humbug.

But, yes, buggy racing will be fun for a while.

Thomas Cook... That actually made me LOL. I just tried to rep you but apparently I need to spread the love, so I'll give Cody and JeffRyan some instead.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

Thomas Cook... That actually made me LOL. I just tried to rep you but apparently I need to spread the love, so I'll give Cody and JeffRyan some instead.

They are certainly worthy. I must confess to being rather smugly satisfied with the Thomas Cook joke, so please take me down a peg or two.

 

[Jack Schitt]

Supercruise was my favorite part of the game, and its a shallow reflection of the first iteration of it, where travelling quickly through a system was an art to be mastered. Every time I approach a planet and can't mass shadow brake because the needle is too small to thread at the speeds we now travel is a reminder of when I used to rapidly decelerate close to a planet, listening to my ship's frame creak and groan, my engines whine like crazy, and the screen shake just enough that I feel like I'm shaking too, wondering if I cut my approach too fine, and I'll be dumped out of supercruise, damaging my ship in the process, or I got it right and I'll slip right into the station's sphere of influence.

It's not something I did very often, so in recent weeks when I tried and failed I assumed I'd just lost the knack. I hadn't realised it was down to design changes. Shame. I don't even bother trying now. Unless the planet is huge and/or the station is in a very low orbit, I resolve an overshoot simply by flying the lazy loop. Dull, dull, dull.

Come to think of it, ISTR that full-on emergency dropping -- flying straight into the planet -- used to cause significant damage. The couple of times that's happened recently, as a result of an interdiction chase or a wildly misjudged approach, damage has been insignificant. Is that the result of another difficulty nerf?

I wanted to be like [...] James Cook. I don't even feel like Thomas Cook.

+1

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Yeah, I guess the point (for me at least) is I shouldn't be so critical of the way the game turned out. I was too close, if I hadn't had access to the DDF or the DDA I'd probably have been even more enthusiastic about the final product.

I know what you mean, but, I am hoping you are throwing the towel in on the contents of the DDA a little early. Unless there has been a post from someone at FD station dont hold your breath, I am gonna keep holding out that with each major update we get a few tweaks to the core game bringing it ever closer to that amazing game outlined in the DDF.

I do agree with you however. ED is like winning 32K on who wants to be a millionaire. Right at the start sitting on your buzzer against 10 other people you would have probably been well chuffed with 32k

but if you had had your hands on the half million, and gone for the full 1 mill, and lost it, chances are you would be feeling disappointed - even though 32K is still a fantastic price.