Why I Wanted Ship Interiors

[Matt_BLJH]

Just because DBOBE says the ships are being designed with interiors in mind doesn't mean it actually happened down the line. Scaling on several ships pretty much confirms they weren't.

 

[Murfelton]

Okay, lets be clear here; there's a difference between 'impossible' and 'so difficult it might as well be impossible'.

Sea of Thieves is a GREAT example of a game that's been built around ship interiors.

1. The ships are small enough you can quickly move from one side to another; the largest ship is significantly smaller than even a Vulture.

2. The piloting aspect takes place on a 2-dimensional plane, and continues even when not at the wheel.

3. Shooting largely doesn't happen at the same time as steering in the first place.

4. Module damage happens very quickly, and repairs happen just as quickly. For example, a single shot can take out your sail, and then your sail can be re-rigged just as quickly.

5. The ships move slowly enough that a swimming player can quickly reach an enemy ship without difficulty, and gives players plenty of time to do things before needing to return to the wheel.

6. Players respawn almost immediately to make boarding more feasible.


Elite has none of these things. In order to make in-person repairs functional, for example, you would need to completely rework the way modules are damaged and repaired. To make single-player mid-combat repairs viable, you'd need to completely rework the piloting system. And so on.

The fact of the matter is, Elite as a game simply was not designed with ship interiors in mind, even if the ships themselves were designed in that way. The design of Elite does not allow for easy introduction of interior gameplay.

Which is exactly what the devs have said again and again. Introducing this content wouldn't just be modeling the interiors, it would require a massive rework of virtually every mechanic in the game, and that's simply not feasible now or at any point soon.

This post summarises the issue: the flight model needs a redesign for the interior gameplay that people on forums are imagining. The flight model has to be: sailing ships, but in space. Realistically, they need something like tractor beams to lock the ships together; trying to fly over to another ship in a EVA suit would just get you splattered on the canopy.

That could be done, but what about the players who like the current flight model? Look at all the hysterical whining that happened when they just changed the UI, never mind rebuilding the core gameplay.

Also, changing the flight model means that it‘s not an optional DLC for Open play. Everyone has to make the switch. If everyone has to have it, that means it has to be free - which is not going to pay for the development time.

And for solo play, boarding is not attractive - why would I want to board a ship and get into a fight where I am heavily outnumbered when I could instead disintegrate a ship from the pilot’s seat? Why am I not totally dead if I am boarded, even if I have a couple NPC crew?

 

[Dartay]

you know, space ships are mostly operate by buttons

Haha yes my exact point.

 

[Mark Zero]

Forget ship interiors for a second: at this point I'd settle for ship exteriors.

Give me some panels on the outside of my ship that I can interact with. Give me the opportunity to set down on a planet and try to fix certain things using the various Horizons and Odyssey engineering mats that we're magically carrying around. My disability and manually flying through the mail slot doesn't jive all that well... next time my landing computer gets shot out, I'd love the ability to land on a planet (which is much easier for me) and swap out a few random components to get it going again. I wouldn't hate it if some of the panels were cuttable with the Maverick suit's laser, and people could potentially yoink the power regulators out of the other ships that land at outposts, or from a player who has left themselves unattended. And, all of those accessible panels should be added onto the crashed ship POIs as well, so that there's an opportunity to salvage some repair supplies whenever you pop over to one of the Anaconda crash sites, and so forth.

That doesn't seem like it would be too much of a stretch from what is already implemented in the game, but it's also a good stepping stone towards the kinds of mechanics that players want to see from interiors and/or EVA. If we already have a mechanic that lets you repair your ship when it is landed, having some of those repair points inside the ship rather than outside isn't a stretch, but you've built in that "you have to be landed so we don't have to model you moving around a flying ship" restriction. It's an upgrade on an existing mechanic, not a new mechanic that feels like it has something missing. Once that's working, then maybe the next step is "okay, but what if the ship is stationary but in space?", which is definitely more of a challenge, but not as much of a challenge as moving at supercruise, and it's easily handwaved as a "safety feature" where the seatbelts won't unlock you from your chair unless you're stationary. Instead of treating ship interiors like a monolithic holy grail that the developers are callously withholding from us, breaking it down into smaller more achievable challenges and expectations might be a more effective way of actually getting it done.

These are all pretty good ideas actually.

I'm not sure why everyone wants to manually fix their ship all of a sudden in 3307 when we have automated repair systems and repair limpets. But if it's something everyone's so adamant about, giving the Maverick suit a repair tool (or giving the Arc Cutter a welding mode?) would be something to do while landed on a planet, I s'pose. Identify damaged points in the hull and patch them up to regain small amounts of hull strength.

Having cuttable panels on the exterior of the ship that let you open up maintenance hatches, swap out damaged components with spares, and bring modules back online would be something as well. Even though we already have the ability to shut the ship down, cannibalize module health, and bring things back online that way. Putting maintenance points on ship exteriors would allow for additional POI scavenging gameplay. Might need to add an "open/close maintenance hatches" button on the Ship tab of the Internal panel to let people do work on their own ship without having to cut panels.

That'd set a precedent for how to do manual repairs on the inside of the ship, if interiors ever happen. But... yes, this is gameplay, but a lot of the gameplay is already in the game in some easier form, from the pilot's seat. So... it's just making something more complicated so that people can do it with their hands, I guess? In a space ship that can be equipped with systems that allow it to fix itself?

But yeah, long story short? Building up to this by inches, setting up new gameplay loops using the on-foot foundations of Odyssey's updates, would probably be the better way to go.

 

[Andarni]

Source: https://media.giphy.com/media/LyJ6KPlrFdKnK/giphy.gif


....Dude, listen, this all sounds fine and dandy, but honestly, you're comparing apples to oranges, an archaic sea vessel to a space ship that would exist long after any of us are alive. So if you want a realistic approach to ship interiors, then Sea of Thieves is the LAST game you should be getting your idea's from because 99% of everything you'd need to do can be still done in the cockpit. We're not talking about a pirates sea vessel from before any of us were even thought of, we're talking about aircraft, WAY into the future. And in modern aircraft, there will be the captain, the co-pilot or first officer, and a mechanic, and a lot of the times you won't even have a mechanic, depending on the nature and size of the aircraft. The pilot is flying the plane and the co-pilot's primary duty would be the weapon systems who can also of course take control of the ship. The mechanic, as the title implies, is the one performing repair and maintenance on the ship, based on what the pilot tells him he is seeing on his instrument panel. The only one that will need to be running around throughout the ship patching things up at all is the mechanic. He also might be doing a routine check of the entire ship to make sure nothing is damaged, that all the flight control surfaces are working, the instrument panel is working, basically making sure nothing is inoperative before the flight. This can make an interesting gameplay loop for someone playing the role of a mechanic.

Instead of the player simply hitting "repair all", an actual player is the one doing it. In the real world, this is all done before the pilot even gets to see the ship, so it only gives this idea even more credence. And the pilot, when he does get there, at the most would be the one strapping down the cargo, that's about it. If something breaks during the flight, the pilot tells the mechanic what to check on and then he goes and fixes it, that's really it. So a good approach to ship interiors, in relation to the crew is to certify them in roles. A player designated as a "mechanic" will not be able to fly the ship, and the pilot will not be able to perform maintenance, because that's simply not his expertise. And you're talking about "manually overriding" the power plant...well, again, whatever needs to be "manually" performed regarding the aircrafts control surfaces, engines, etc, is all done in the cockpit on modern aircraft. If an engine is "melting down", all the pilot has to do is flip a switch and cut it off, and transfer the fuel to the other engine, assuming the mechanic can't get it fixed. The process is not nearly as archaic as you want it to be. It isn't EVEN NOW in modern aircraft, so why should it be in space ships hundreds and thousands of years into the future? This is the issue I have with pro ship interior people. The idea's you do propose makes very little sense. If you want ship interiors, then at least try to give an original, REALISTIC approach to it, if you want Frontier to take your plea's for ship interiors seriously.

I'm totally against ship interiors because I think it is a TON of coding that could be going elsewhere going for walking around (at least unless they found a way to implement boarding, but I dont think that's ever going to happen).

That said I think what you are saying here is actually not true. In ships size matters. What you say applies for small vessels, fighter-like size, but as soon as you start scalating sizes electrical wiring and mechanical pieces get longer, can get disconnected by damage, and you are susceptible again to manual repairings, also distribution gets messier and you cant automate everything.

According to your logic modern frigate size navy ships (aprox the same size as an anaconda) could be managing everything from the bridge and have a 3 people crews and thats just not true. They have crews around the 250 people, thats on the same range than they had in the 1800 during the golden age of sailing.

I'm all for no interiors but the realism reason for me it's invalid, there is just no way to know how much or little running around it will require in the future to run a big ship.

 

[Mark Zero]

This post summarises the issue: the flight model needs a redesign for the interior gameplay that people on forums are imagining. The flight model has to be: sailing ships, but in space. Realistically, they need something like tractor beams to lock the ships together; trying to fly over to another ship in a EVA suit would just get you splattered on the canopy.

That could be done, but what about the players who like the current flight model? Look at all the hysterical whining that happened when they just changed the UI, never mind rebuilding the core gameplay.

Also, changing the flight model means that it‘s not an optional DLC for Open play. Everyone has to make the switch. If everyone has to have it, that means it has to be free - which is not going to pay for the development time.

And for solo play, boarding is not attractive - why would I want to board a ship and get into a fight where I am heavily outnumbered when I could instead disintegrate a ship from the pilot’s seat? Why am I not totally dead if I am boarded, even if I have a couple NPC crew?

Yeah, not gonna lie, I sank a butt load of money into a Virpil Hotas (with an extra left handed joystick just for thruster controls!) specifically because I really enjoy the "airplanes in space" flight model, and wanted that to be the most immersive part of the game for me.

So... if they reduced that system down to "slow space ship flies itself via navigation commands, so that you can run around pressing E on this maintenance hatch mid-combat", that'd kill a whole lot of the appeal for me.

And as a fellow solo player? The idea of requiring a crew in order to play the game effectively is a touch off-putting. Crew functionality should definitely work, but I don't wanna be forced into multi-player. If some people should get to be a pirate ship in space, I should still be allowed to be a fighter pilot.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I think what people want is in reality play a completely different game. Who knows, maybe Starfield gives a good experience. Don't preorder, though - just put it on your wishlist.

 

[Red Rocket]

Why I DON’T want ship interiors, Because there is other stuff I want more.

 

[Kenneth McGrew]

We're not talking about a pirates sea vessel from before any of us were even thought of, we're talking about aircraft, WAY into the future.

I was first thought of way back in in the year 500 as the lady of the lake her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that Arthur was to carry Excalibur, she also held out a class one seismic charge launcher from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that i, Kenneth McGrew would be born to tackle this topic, therefore being thought about way back in the 6th century

pirate vessels were invented in 1683 according to the internet therefore i lost where i was going with this and ended up watching "top 10 cat memes" and before I knew it, it was midnight.

 

[Red Rocket]

Come on guys, get off the ship interiors kick and start asking for Elite improvements that will make it a better game.

if I had ship interiors I would walk around one time to check it out and never again, boring game play

how about full game VR, or finding animals on planets, landing on earth like’s, base building.

 

[Mark Zero]

Come on guys, get off the ship interiors kick and start asking for Elite improvements that will make it a better game.

if I had ship interiors I would walk around one time to check it out and never again, boring game play

how about full game VR, or finding animals on planets, landing on earth like’s, base building.

Why does everyone want base building in every single video game ever? Not every game needs it, and more often than not it just clutters the experience.

Also everything you just listed is in No Man's Sky, so...

 

[cheesenbiscuits]

Come on guys, get off the ship interiors kick and start asking for Elite improvements that will make it a better game.

if I had ship interiors I would walk around one time to check it out and never again, boring game play

how about full game VR, or finding animals on planets, landing on earth like’s, base building.

Replacing fade to black with a physical transition is making the game better.

 

[Fizzatron]

Yeah, not gonna lie, I sank a butt load of money into a Virpil Hotas (with an extra left handed joystick just for thruster controls!) specifically because I really enjoy the "airplanes in space" flight model, and wanted that to be the most immersive part of the game for me.

So... if they reduced that system down to "slow space ship flies itself via navigation commands, so that you can run around pressing E on this maintenance hatch mid-combat", that'd kill a whole lot of the appeal for me.

And as a fellow solo player? The idea of requiring a crew in order to play the game effectively is a touch off-putting. Crew functionality should definitely work, but I don't wanna be forced into multi-player. If some people should get to be a pirate ship in space, I should still be allowed to be a fighter pilot.

There's room for both if you think of what could be done in Supercruise or just being 'static' in space IMHO.

 

[Dionizio]

I've been with this game for a long, long time- roughly six months from launch till now- and while I never thought I'd be one to leave, here we are.

Over ship interiors.

After having to read a million posts with some variation of "BUT WHY DO YOU CARE SO MUCH ABOUT IT," I figured it would be fitting to leave Elite by definitively answering this question, at least from my perspective.

Have any of ya'll played Sea of Thieves? That was, in essence, my dream for this game. Take all the incredibly immersive systems we already have and add Sea of Thieves to it. Let me stand on the bridge of my ship while my crew clears us for action. Let me run down to the engine room as red lights flash and my Verity repeats "Powerplant meltdown imminent - manual override required." Let me take a stroll to engineering and fabricate some PVP ammo. Most of all, let me get into a hatchbreaker limpit, launch myself at an enemy ship, and storm their bridge, guns blazing.

I can do all of this in Sea of Thieves. I wanted to be able to do it in the world of Elite Dangerous- a persistent, evolving world bursting with billions of people and factions and stations, rather than a 10 square mile patch of ocean dotted with 2-dozen empty islands.

But I guess the devs sided with the people who claimed "it won't add any gameplay" - either because they agreed or (as I suspect) It was just too difficult for them to do.

For those who stay, I hope they get Odyssey fixed for ya and make the game you're hoping to play. But I think that's gonna do it for me. o7

unfortunately, it's hard to say that, but you want to play sea of thiefs and not elite dangerous, this game is elite dangerous, the game you want to play is not this one, I would love to have the interior of the ships too, but I've already lost them hopes, frontier won't do... what we want is not elite dangerous, I've already migrated to another game too, which also sucks but at least there's more immersion, what can we do and hope someday for frontier to do the elite 2 with ship interiors, or maybe some other game appears to fill this market.

 

[Stelar 7]

Ah yes, in a game where timing of shield cells matters, get out of your chair and run to the back.

While your fixing a thing the gauss rounds continue to land and now you aren't maneuvering, so the enemy is on your 6 breaking components faster than you can hope to repair them. Boom.

Its not just that there isn't content, your ship will go boom.

 

[Murfelton]

I think what people want is in reality play a completely different game. Who knows, maybe Starfield gives a good experience. Don't preorder, though - just put it on your wishlist.

I’m willing to be optimistic about Starfield since I won’t preorder. From what I saw, it’s a RPG in space. If they execute that perfectly, it will be a great game - but I’d bet that it’s a different experience than Elite. For people who want to roleplay, that’s what they want - but that’s not what I want out of Elite. There can be more than one good game set in space.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I’m willing to be optimistic about Starfield since I won’t preorder. From what I saw, it’s a RPG in space. If they execute that perfectly, it will be a great game - but I’d bet that it’s a different experience than Elite. For people who want to roleplay, that’s what they want - but that’s not what I want out of Elite. There can be more than one good game set in space.

There can not be a game that does everything.

 

[Murfelton]

There can not be a game that does everything.

Well, there is a certain buggy pre-alpha CryEngine mod that some people (who are certainly not paid employees of the company producing it, no sir!) believe that it will do everything when it releases…

 

[CMDR_MrKoss]

Why everyone crying about absence of ship interiors? Why??? Just only for making few steps to get outside? Or just sitting in your own corner at the edge of the Galaxy? Really? I think it will bring less than 1% of gameplay. And takes months and years of developer's work and optimisation. Please, stop it.

I was travening through the bubble on foot searhing suits and weapons for a week or a little more. And i was doing that without ship. And that was unusual expiriense that I was playing my favorite game, space sim. But without ship. Tha was new feeling. But I want to feel more freedom.

Why aren't you want more social places? I want to feel more freedom while traveling on foot than we have now. I want to disembark out of my ship (that way we have it now is enough) , walk to elevator doors and after pressing button to see more places than only station hall. Lounge places like gardens on stations. Observation places. Manitanance areas. Hallways. Missions on station. Habiatat rings. And so on. Like it looks in Alien Isolation. I think it better example to strive for than Sea of Thiefs. That's it. Enought with ship interior threads.

P.s. I also want ship interiors. But it's the last thing i want after everything another will be done.

 

[here_it_comes]

Why everyone crying about absence of ship interiors? . . . Please, stop it.

Besides Braben selling the game years ago with the promise of ship interiors in the future?

It's fine you're OK with being lied to, but you shouldn't be surprised other people aren't.

Ah yes, in a game where timing of shield cells matters, get out of your chair and run to the back.

While your fixing a thing the gauss rounds continue to land and now you aren't maneuvering, so the enemy is on your 6 breaking components faster than you can hope to repair them. Boom.

Its not just that there isn't content, your ship will go boom.

Yeah, all those hopes and dreams of wandering your ship during combat. Very real. So many posts about.

Mind passing what you're puffing?