Why is there more malice aimed at people wanting mining the way it was than towards the people who exploited it?

[Crasharr]

Hey, anyone can play any way they like, but stop pretending that the basic human sense of fairness is somehow alien to you. If everyone would shut the F up about the billions they make and parade their FC's all over the goddamn universe and constant whining when the DEVELOPERS fix a mining bug I wouldnt get triggered. But constantly getting it rubbed in my face will evoke a response and stop pretending that its somehow petty or hypocrite!

Not too long ago the forums were flooded with "ED is too easy" tripe, now you get bucket loads of complaints for ez mode being fixed. It doesnt take a genious to see how this will rub some people the wrong way. So stuff your holier than thou crapitude!

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

Define too slow and what's just right. How long should it take for someone to go from sidewinder to Anaconda? How should it take for a new player to get a FC? Cause I sure as he** don't won't this game to turn into NMS...so easy that it's no fun.

I got into my first Anaconda doing Robigo Shadow Delivery runs after about a month. I don't think ships as a means of progression really works. Time =/= easy or hard. It's just more time doing busy work.

 

[Astrometer]

WHAT A JOKE!!!

As of a couple of days ago we had an update and part of that was about the re-balance of mining making it good again, some lie that is as nothing has changed in fact it's worse thanks frontier for taking the urine out of us.

Before update mining was bad all most useless and now it's worse to a unplayable part of game, I've been in a few Low temperature Diamond hot spots since update patch and nothing there not one diamond surface or deep-core, yes plenty of other worthless stuff.

WELL DONE FRONTIER FOR A BIG JOKING LIE, WASTING US PLAYERS TIME MINING.

Diamonds are supposed to be rare that's why they are valuable in small quantities. They are supposed to be something you occasionally come across while out mining for other stuff as a nice bonus. This fix is long overdue.

 

[gorankar]

Not quite because they also 'exploited' the fixed market for the gems which dosen't exist anymore since the nerf ;so would of made considerably less with more effort required to find a selling point.

You belive the market price was an exploit? Sheesh.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

You belive the market price was an exploit? Sheesh.

The LTD market was bugged in that it didn't respond to supply & demand , frontier have fixed that bug . While in that bugged state many took advantage to easily sell tons of gems with no market volatility , exploiting the bug .

 

[CMDR Carbo]

This is a Mutliplayer Game.
For me the most important thing is that the game is balanced, and every player has the same chances and opportunities to earn money.
If something earns you 10 times more than it should, fix it immediately. If you don't fix it immediately, leave it as it is, and up the earnings of other professions. Because all the balance, at this point, is already out of the window.
Whether sell prices are logical, correlate to the real world, or price and demand make sense is secondary. It is a game.

 

[Talamat]

Diamonds are supposed to be rare that's why they are valuable in small quantities. They are supposed to be something you occasionally come across while out mining for other stuff as a nice bonus. This fix is long overdue.

Diamond (gemstone) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Rare? Diamond's are just carbon under pressure, not really that rare.

 

[Tividar]

Heck, let's just give out Anacondas on day one then. Maybe we should just start out with a FC for everyone. I mean, it's all about the outcome of your dream....not the path it took to get your dream....right?

Straw man is straw, but I'll take you at face value: why not? Does that effect you? Many posts point out the obvious problems with giving a new pilot a large ship, but all of those problems are inflicted on the pilot. Why do you care if a new pilot has a bad experience with an Anaconda? I tried out a Type-10 a few months ago. Didn't care for it. Know what I did? Sold it. Problem solved.

Look, I get the whole journey vs. destination argument. Generally I fall on the journey side, but two caveats: I get to define my journey, not you. Some people prefer the destination more than the journey. They're not wrong either. If Fdev started giving out free Anacondas, the worse outcome I could imagine is a subset of new players would feel like they "finished" the game earlier than if they had to scrap credits for six months. Fdev gets their money, you get to crow about how they should never have had an Anaconda and they get to move on to another game. Who loses here? If, at some future point, the new pilot decides they want to give ED another shot with a smaller ship, they can do that too.

EDIT: One point I left out. While giving out Anacondas on day one wouldn't be my first choice, everyone should be interested in shortening the path between sidewinder and having a large-enough ship with sufficent modules/engineering etc. to be able to meaningfully play with others.

 

[Wasp0]

I can only speak for myself, and my problem with the game is that new players can go from Sidewinder to Anaconda in days, and then get a fleet carrier a couple of weeks later. This is way too fast. It's like going from being in rags in Helgen to being level 100 with all shouts unlocked in a couple of days in Skyrim, and then unlocking all the content in the DLCs a week later.

But on the other hand, I do think that credits should scale with level in some regard. As combat rank increases, I should be offered more and more lucrative bounties. As my trade rank increases, I should be offered better trade deals. As I rank up in exploration, I should be offered better returns on my interstellar finds. While this is a bit gimmicky, it's also not. I can't walk into my police headquarters today and demand they give me a list of all the million dollar bounties, but if I was a famous and renowned bounty hunter, then I probably could. Same goes with various job contracts - we start small (flipping burgers) and slowly work our way up to CEO, who doesn't work any harder than the burger-flipper, but his reputation earns him a much bigger salary.

This way there's a curve to progression, meaning the longer you play, the more you progress. Mining as it is bypasses this. For fun I built a non-engineered basic mining Adder for real cheap, and in an hour or two of mining I had enough credits to buy a Python. That's just nuts, and it's totally contrary to the game Elite was originally published as. Just look at the advanced maintenance tab to see what type of game ED was originally meant to be.

As usual with the 'Old Duck' some extremely wise words many mining whingers should take note from.

 

[gorankar]

The LTD market was bugged in that it didn't respond to supply & demand , frontier have fixed that bug . While in that bugged state many took advantage to easily sell tons of gems with no market volatility , exploiting the bug .

While FC just made this obvious with LTD, VO, Painite, Alexandrite, and others, either did not respond to demand, or demand refreshed fast enough not to matter, at various times over the last 18 months as well. Which would make everyone that sold mined goods in the last 18 months an exploiter by your definition.
I just want to be clear that, that is what you believe here.

 

[smiths121]

Pay to win, that's what you want? That will definitely trigger people. But FWIW, I suggested making fleet carriers purchasable using real $$$, making them basically DLC content. That idea was shot down very quickly. I suggested this because a FC is "other" - it's not a ship in the traditional sense, so wouldn't need to be in the line of progression of flyable ships. Sure, this means a noob could own a FC if he coughed up the $$, but it would be a fleet carrier loaded with Sidewinders, Adders, etc. I'd actually prefer this over the imbalanced, immersion & lore-breaking payouts we were getting from mining.

TBH it would not surprise me if Frontier were to offer some sort of "credits for Arx" "catch up" package, mainly because Frontier loves selling silly things for Arx. I'd almost prefer this if it means trade and economy are balanced to something sensible once again. That way at least the game I play would retain a sense of challenge and immersion.

So if this is what you are proposing, then sure, I'll give you my vote.

Before the game launched, there was a post to the backers forum about being able to buying credits. The DDF had been up in arms about it, and the backer forum followed up with pitch forks. Least that is how I remembered it. The pre-game community was very opposed to any form of pay to win.

FD undertook "no pay to win", but I seem to remember they were still keen on $$$ for Credits but not at the start. So you never know!!

Simon

 

[SgtMajRaz]

 

[Jmanis]

Diamonds are supposed to be rare that's why they are valuable in small quantities. They are supposed to be something you occasionally come across while out mining for other stuff as a nice bonus. This fix is long overdue.

Diamond (gemstone) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Rare? Diamond's are just carbon under pressure, not really that rare.

^^ This one.

You can thank historic monopoly and manipulation of the market for the false perception that they're rare and somehow worth money.

 

[CMDR Carbo]

Spot on.

 

[RiotRabit]

This is not accurate.
Whoever made this may be suffering from a fishbowl perception effect.

 

[Old Duck]

This is not accurate.
Whoever made this may be suffering from a fishbowl perception effect.

Don't make fun of his hard work, because

My time is precious.

 

[SgtMajRaz]

This is not accurate.
Whoever made this may be suffering from a fishbowl perception effect.

Which part?

Most people benefiting from a broken LTD mechanic?
A lot of people benefiting from an LTD exploit without repercussions?
A person telling another how they should play?
A person telling another what the value of their play should be?
Wanting balance?
A person telling another they are getting from ship A to B way too fast, because it took them longer to do it 3 years prior?

 

[Jmanis]

Which part?

Most people benefiting from a broken LTD mechanic?
A lot of people benefiting from an LTD exploit without repercussions?
A person telling another how they should play?
A person telling another what the value of their play should be?
Wanting balance?
A person telling another they are getting from ship A to B way too fast, because it took them longer to do it 3 years prior?

I'd replace "ED vets" with "lazy exploiters", but hey, that's just me.

This whole idea that "vets" are trying to "pull the ladder up" is just dumb.

 

[SgtMajRaz]

Don't make fun of his hard work, because

It took me 1 hour and 27 minutes less and more pleasure to make that meme based on this thread, than it did to mine 34 rocks of LTD. Trust me, I feel as accomplished in it as you did in cherry-picking my posts to make a very weak point.

 

[SgtMajRaz]

I'd replace "ED vets" with "lazy exploiters", but hey, that's just me.

This whole idea that "vets" are trying to "pull the ladder up" is just dumb.

The exploiters weren't the only one the profited. Everyone did. I understand not all the vets in ED are as condescending as the ones in this thread, but I think I had it with the "vets" point of view after post #71.