Why not just close open play fdev?

[VirtueXOI]

Okay but what about pixels in a computer game? Same emotional response?

Pain is pain , big or small , physical or psychological .

This is where we all disagree , I consider things reals as long as human are involved .What's the difference between friend you made online or irl ? Appart from certain proximity , to me it's basicly the same I value human for what they are , not for where they are.

Action in a game have less consequences because the world you'r playing in is "virtual", but the humain are real . This is why you dont gank PNJ all day =).

Players in open aren't obliged to carefully explain their motivation for their interaction with you while you're sitting watching a 15 second menu log timer count down. If you don't want the risk of PvP, I presume that's why you click on private group or solo instead of open when logging in. That's as far as it goes.

I dont want the risk of being ganked. Tbh i quite love pvp and player interaction in general, i did alot of it on many game, the most notable one being WoW. But wow have other system . You cant really fight in cities , it's pretty rare to be killed by very hight level if you know the places , and even if you are doing PVE , your gear can match pure PvP player to some extent. Also the death is much much much less punishing.

In elite , fighting a shieldless T7 with some combat ship is like killing one ant with a nuclear strike.

So yeah in open people dont have to explain motivation when ganking you , but being in open does not mean you like to be ganked. Id' love to be pirated for the thrill it could be .

But the 10 sec to rebuy screen for no reason ? meh , screw that.

Oh and , i play solo. I stopped open when i died 3 or 4 times in one CG , killed many many many time at deciat when engineering some small explorer, and finally when i came back from long exploration trip and been blown up randomly (this one was very unlucky i guess :/).

I go open sometimes , to test it again , but still the only intercation i had is being killed for 0 reason.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Which is of course why the best game design celebrates and rewards gameplay that is risk free, socially isolated, repetitive grinds as a substitute for meaningful content and interactions.

Like ganking in ships that confer a massive advantage to the attacker resulting in virtually no risk to themself, with no social interaction with their chosen target, having ground out their engineering modifications?

This game doesn't specifically reward PvP - in fact the developers learned early that some players will go out of their way to collude to earn rewards designed for contested encounters with no contest. It also wasn't designed to revolve around PvP, quite the opposite, actually - given that all players affect the shared galaxy state whether or not they play among other players.

 

[CMDR Serra]

I've tried to be a social pirate. In 99% of encounters I win the interdiction mini game - or surprise a LTD miner in an asteroid field, make a demand for cargo only to have them pop out of 15 seconds later without a word.
People wanting social piracy is (in my fairly limited experience) a myth.
Playing a RP pirate is thankless, unrewarding work.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I've tried to be a social pirate. In 99% of encounters I win the interdiction mini game - or surprise a LTD miner in an asteroid field, make a demand for cargo only to have them pop out of 15 seconds later without a word.
People wanting social piracy is (in my fairly limited experience) a myth.
Playing a RP pirate is thankless, unrewarding work.

PvP Piracy suffers simply because the target will often assume that any attacker professing to be a "real" pirate is a ganker spreading misinformation.

 

[Deleted member 192138]

I dont want the risk of being ganked. Tbh i quite love pvp and player interaction in general, i did alot of it on many game, the most notable one being WoW. But wow have other system . You cant really fight in cities , it's pretty rare to be killed by very hight level if you know the places , and even if you are doing PVE , your gear can match pure PvP player to some extent. Also the death is much much much less punishing.

In elite , fighting a shieldless T7 with some combat ship is like killing one ant with a nuclear strike.

So yeah in open people dont have to explain motivation when ganking you , but being in open does not mean you like to be ganked. Id' love to be pirated for the thrill it could be .

But the 10 sec to rebuy screen for no reason ? meh , screw that.

If you're flying around hotspot areas in a shieldless T7 in open then it's not a surprise. If you know what you're doing you can make a gank-survivable fit without losing too much cargo space/jump range. Most people that were pirates cut it out of their PvP activity because of a myriad of reasons, one of the primary stated reasons is repeatedly how easy it is for people to menu log and leave you with nothing whilst you're still trying to type out a roleplay message for piracy.

 

[VirtueXOI]

I've tried to be a social pirate. In 99% of encounters I win the interdiction mini game - or surprise a LTD miner in an asteroid field, make a demand for cargo only to have them pop out of 15 seconds later without a word.
People wanting social piracy is (in my fairly limited experience) a myth.
Playing a RP pirate is thankless, unrewarding work.

Tbh i'm quite sad about that but cant deny it :/.

It's also quite vicious that most of them just panic from the fear of the classic gank.

i'v always said that the logout process from open should leave your ship for at least 30sec or 1 min in the instance your were in. I cant deny the fact that this happend many times.

 

[Deleted member 192138]

Like ganking in ships that confer a massive advantage to the attacker resulting in virtually no risk to themself, with no social interaction with their chosen target, having ground out their engineering modifications?

The game design gating effective builds behind heavily weighted credit, material and engineer unlock grinds as well as an opaque set of game mechanics at play when building a ship which are only explained as a result of community investigation and guides with no in game explanation of how these things work - is a game design issue and not the fault of players interested in any particular gameplay activity.

This game doesn't specifically reward PvP - in fact the developers learned early that some players will go out of their way to collude to earn rewards designed for contested encounters with no contest. It also wasn't designed to revolve around PvP, quite the opposite, actually - given that all players affect the shared galaxy state whether or not they play among other players.

If certain gameplay styles being open to exploitation means they should be entirely avoidable altogether (which is a legitimate position to hold) - how come my BGS activity can be steamrolled by someone running bots or other exploits in solo play?

PvP Piracy suffers simply because the target will often assume that any attacker professing to be a "real" pirate is a ganker spreading misinformation.

Not really a proven point tbh. Also doesn't detract from the fact that PvP piracy is basically dead since the fleet carriers update for multiple reasons, but for even longer than that PvP pirates have been giving up on it out of frustration at loggers. Whatever the rationale is in the mind of the logger, or their motivation. The end result is the same: it undermines the activity of PvP piracy when the majority of marks will disappear whilst the hatchbreaker has barely attached.

 

[Brrokk]

Tbh i'm quite sad about that but cant deny it :/.

It's also quite vicious that most of them just panic from the fear of the classic gank.

i'v always said that the logout process from open should leave your ship for at least 30sec or 1 min in the instance your were in. I cant deny the fact that this happend many times.

This, as said many times before. I'd welcome gameplay in which someone wants my cargo* and I have to decide whether to drop some, fight or run. That would be proper Elite. But uncommunicative shooters have ruined piracy. I doubt I'll ever hang around long enough to meet a real pirate.

* It would be nice if FD could fix the thing where you can't replace mission cargo if you've lost any, too.

 

[VirtueXOI]

If you're flying around hotspot areas in a shieldless T7 in open then it's not a surprise. If you know what you're doing you can make a gank-survivable fit without losing too much cargo space/jump range. Most people that were pirates cut it out of their PvP activity because of a myriad of reasons, one of the primary stated reasons is repeatedly how easy it is for people to menu log and leave you with nothing whilst you're still trying to type out a roleplay message for piracy.

Why ? Why should I ? if you see an old weak person in the street will you gank her ? please. You do it because it's easy. dont put the blame on my shieldless T7. My T7 is the thing that get me targeted , but the reason you'r targetting me is because it's easy.

As for the Clog process i totaly agree that this mech tend to kill every "unwanted" pvp interaction , kill piracy ect. I cant deny that. I also cant deny that for the game , killing 10 cmdr result the same as staying in a station more than 5 min.

 

[Bottom Hat]

and back on topic

Cheddar cheese with Christmas Cake - Try it before dissing it, which gives me 3 months for everyone to forget about it, nah its nice, can do with stilton or a smellier cheese but a blander one like cheddar works fine.

Any heavy fruit cake works (but brandy-soaked xmas cake is best), even with stronger flavoured cheeses. If the cake is getting a bit dry around the edges, pop it under the grill with cheese on until the cheese goes bubbly... wait for it to cool below molten before consumption

You two are going on the blocked list, and are a gnat's nut hair away from being reported.

Can people please stop equating a bunch of pixels blowing up in a computer game to real life assault.

Careful now cupcake...

PvP Piracy suffers simply because the target will often assume that any attacker professing to be a "real" pirate is a ganker spreading misinformation.

That may very well be true, but stop derailing the thread. What is your cheese preference? And don't you dare put fruit or cake near it either...

 

[Robert Maynard]

The game design gating effective builds behind heavily weighted credit, material and engineer unlock grinds as well as an opaque set of game mechanics at play when building a ship which are only explained as a result of community investigation and guides with no in game explanation of how these things work - is a game design issue and not the fault of players interested in any particular gameplay activity.

Which ignores the point I was making about gankers ship builds reducing their risks to near zero in most encounters.

If certain gameplay styles being open to exploitation means they should be entirely avoidable altogether (which is a legitimate position to hold) - how come my BGS activity can be steamrolled by someone running bots or other exploits in solo play?

Running bots is against the EULA.

What "other exploits in solo play" are being referred to?

.... and the BGS belongs equally to all players, regardless of game platform or game mode.

Not really a proven point tbh. Also doesn't detract from the fact that PvP piracy is basically dead since the fleet carriers update for multiple reasons, but for even longer than that PvP pirates have been giving up on it out of frustration at loggers. Whatever the rationale is in the mind of the logger, or their motivation. The end result is the same: it undermines the activity of PvP piracy when the majority of marks will disappear whilst the hatchbreaker has barely attached.

If one is not "fun" to play with then no-one needs to stick around to play. That Frontier deemed it necessary to include a delayed menu exit and block feature in their game, the former being able to be used at any time and the latter only ever having been strengthened over time, suggests that forced interactions between players aren't an aspect of this game that anyone needs to engage in.

 

[xzanfr]

Grapes are forgivable allowing any member of the onion or garlic group close enough for the stench to contaminate the cheese is the capital offence.

Optimum recipe is a buttered square cracker, 4 x pieces of cheese placed at each corner then either a drip of chilli sauce or a ring of pickled onion on each bit of cheese.
Eaten in 4 x bites with each bite getting the same quantity of crcker, cheese and chilli sauce / pickled onion.
Any other way is wrong and you know it.

In other news I can't believe we're still arguing about game modes after all these years, play the mode you want and stop worrying about what others are doing.

 

[CMDR Serra]

PvP Piracy suffers simply because the target will often assume that any attacker professing to be a "real" pirate is a ganker spreading misinformation.

I may just try it at Tenche. Build myself something - maybe C3 - which shouldn't be too threatening but capable of piracy. See how may CMDRs poop the bed and log rather than face my wrath.
I'm already top 10% and have no realistic aims of anything higher.

 

[Vetinari]

I've tried to be a social pirate. In 99% of encounters I win the interdiction mini game - or surprise a LTD miner in an asteroid field, make a demand for cargo only to have them pop out of 15 seconds later without a word.

nothing whilst you're still trying to type out a roleplay message for piracy.

Never heard of copy & paste?

You think we havent seen you in SC? You think we havent made the choice already? I see people disappear from SC all the time, and sometimes they actually leave a wake signal The ones that stay have made a choice, some will wait and see, some will plan to log, some are wanting either chat or RP, but all have made a choice to see what the next stage is and not just log as soon as they see hollow.

If youre interdicting 1st and chatting later you missed the opportunity, if someone is menu logging they already started it and aint seeing the chat or the hatchbreaker they have to remain on that countdown screen or start menu logging process from start. I dont do it but if I did i would zero throttle and immediately log or not throttle down and log which may give me max time in fighting and less time in instance to be shot at. If Im a pirate and know that I would try and do something to avoid this which is quite simple.

Copy & paste your piracy message before interdicting in SC, thats how I tell your a pirate.

Dont blame the player who doesnt trust blind interdictions when gankers and griefers do exactly the same. Not when theyve been watching you in SC for some time and know you had time to send 'Pirate. Submit' at least.

 

[VirtueXOI]

Can people please stop equating a bunch of pixels blowing up in a computer game to real life assault.

Well in my language there's common expression that say "Qui vole un oeuf , vole un boeuf " (yeah i'm french that's why i'm never happy =D )

Basicly it says that if you do something "reprehensible" but with little importance , you may reproduce it for a thing with large importance, especialy when you are not "punished" for that.

So yeah , ofc it's far from comparable to real life assault in term of how shocking/traumatising it is. But behind that , it is nearly the same instinc / mechanisme thats work. (unless assault is for a reason , like money / sex ect) .

To me this just prove that if humanity did not have law and some society rules we may have gankers irl.

I'm going a bit far here , but i dislike when you lower the power of HUMAN interactions , because they have little consequences.

If you prefer a "kinder" example , you could just think about a child breaking someone toys because of "jealousy , power ect" . the toy is not important . the act is.

 

[Deleted member 192138]

Why ? Why should I ? if you see an old weak person in the street will you gank her ? please. You do it because it's easy. dont put the blame on my shieldless T7. My T7 is the thing that get me targeted , but the reason you'r targetting me is because it's easy.

Which ignores the point I was making about gankers ship builds reducing their risks to near zero in most encounters.

It is very easy to build a ship that has a very good chance of surviving a gank. If you know you'll be flying in open - where you should be aware on clicking that button that you will be in a situation to be confronted by players that may not have your best interests at heart - and you know you'll be flying in player hotspots, then you should be open to the possibility that a player will want to blow you up. Maybe it's for BGS reasons, maybe it's for power play, maybe that's just how they get their jollies.

It is hubris to assume you should have an immunity to this just because you chose to fly a ship with crippled capabilities. When at the same time if you read or access some of the resources made available by the community (many of whom are those same gankers much derided) you can make open play equally minimal risk as you assume it is for the gankers. Again - that these builds are gated behind grind walls is not the fault of the players but rather a result of specific design choices to induce gameplay without content by FDev.

As I have said previously in this thread - most gankers are also PvPers and in the player hotspots where they're active - they'll just as often be getting into balanced potential PvP fights with other PvPers, and ganking in between times. Gankers are also specifically chased by players who make that their central activity. The activity of ganking is not a zero risk activity, even if it feels like that in the moment at which you're being ganked. Ironically, ganking to trigger the risk of a cat and mouse game with anti-ganker players can be part of the fun of ganking at which point it is about ganking to induce a more meaningful risk than could be provided by NPCs.

Running bots is against the EULA.

What "other exploits in solo play" are being referred to?

Farming SLF kills to tank a CZ in a war. Players who profile themselves as anti-gankers have been known to farm kills on each other in private group so they have bounties to hand in for BGS influence pushes.

If one is not "fun" to play with then no-one needs to stick around to play. That Frontier deemed it necessary to include a delayed menu exit and block feature in their game, the former being able to be used at any time and the latter only ever having been strengthened over time, suggests that forced interactions between players aren't an aspect of this game that anyone needs to engage in.

Then you're welcome to use the block feature and menu exit as you see fit. But if you want to play a game devoid of player interaction that has any element of surprise or risk, you will have to spend a lot of time copying Old Duck's block list, or just log into solo - as is your right under the EULA. I'm just pointing out how these different elements construct and constitute a resulting player base.

 

[tafkabb]

This is like the Travelodge version of Hotel California

 

[Robert Maynard]

It is very easy to build a ship that has a very good chance of surviving a gank. If you know you'll be flying in open - where you should be aware on clicking that button that you will be in a situation to be confronted by players that may not have your best interests at heart - and you know you'll be flying in player hotspots, then you should be open to the possibility that a player will want to blow you up. Maybe it's for BGS reasons, maybe it's for power play, maybe that's just how they get their jollies.

Indeed - if one is willing to compromise ones ship build if it's not a combat ship.

It is hubris to assume you should have an immunity to this just because you chose to fly a ship with crippled capabilities. When at the same time if you read or access some of the resources made available by the community (many of whom are those same gankers much derided) you can make open play equally minimal risk as you assume it is for the gankers. Again - that these builds are gated behind grind walls is not the fault of the players but rather a result of specific design choices to induce gameplay without content by FDev.

Those ganking only need to optimise their ship for one role. Anyone wishing to do something other than combat would require to compromise rather than optimise their build.

That engineering is a reward for engaging in different aspects of the game would seem to be very much "by design" - just as engineering requires players to gather their own materials and data and cannot simply be bought.

As I have said previously in this thread - most gankers are also PvPers and in the player hotspots where they're active - they'll just as often be getting into balanced potential PvP fights with other PvPers, and ganking in between times. Gankers are also specifically chased by players who make that their central activity. The activity of ganking is not a zero risk activity, even if it feels like that in the moment at which you're being ganked. Ironically, ganking to trigger the risk of a cat and mouse game with anti-ganker players can be part of the fun of ganking at which point it is about ganking to induce a more meaningful risk than could be provided by NPCs.

I wonder why so few players choose to reward the gankers by "fighting back" - maybe they choose not to reward them for their behaviour...

Farming SLF kills to tank a CZ in a war. Players who profile themselves as anti-gankers have been known to farm kills on each other in private group so they have bounties to hand in for BGS influence pushes.

If it's not prohibited by the game then is it an exploit?

Then you're welcome to use the block feature and menu exit as you see fit. But if you want to play a game devoid of player interaction that has any element of surprise or risk, you will have to spend a lot of time copying Old Duck's block list, or just log into solo - as is your right under the EULA. I'm just pointing out how these different elements construct and constitute a resulting player base.

All players are, if they wish to. The player-base arrived in this game "pre-split" - as PvP has always been optional.

 

[Phongsalt]

I don't care if someone plays solo or private... but why reward someone more for less? Just like we all played games in the past... the lower the difficulty typically the lesser rewards. The harder aka open more rewards. Not sure why there is even a discussion.

The harder requires fewer incentives, QED.

 

[VirtueXOI]

It is very easy to build a ship that has a very good chance of surviving a gank. If you know you'll be flying in open - where you should be aware on clicking that button that you will be in a situation to be confronted by players that may not have your best interests at heart - and you know you'll be flying in player hotspots, then you should be open to the possibility that a player will want to blow you up. Maybe it's for BGS reasons, maybe it's for power play, maybe that's just how they get their jollies.

I know , and i choose not to. Hopefully because i can.

But i do agree on your point that everyone is being given the same tools , at least after some time. I quite like this idea of everyone choosing what to do with what they have.
I choose to trade / mine / explore , fight PVE .

If i were some troll i'd at least try to be fun. Like shieldless sidy waiting behind airlock for someone to boost :O