Why side with Torval in a slave revolt? The cruisers are more valuable to kill

I hear a lot of commanders are siding with a dirty slaver in these revolts.

I doubt that there's more than a couple players who actually don't have a problem with slavery, in real life. It's strange to me that in video games people forget their morals or play as, basically a pure criminal or a total sociopath. I know that a lot of games reward you for that. But this game definitely doesn't. There are consequences. How about those huge bounties that follow you around everywhere? Faction reputation loss? In this game you actually have to think like a real person, because that's how much your choices will affect your reputation. So if you personally wouldn't like being known around town as a slave driver (really great way to drive off girls at the bar), why would you bear having that reputation in this game? Or is it less of a big deal for you? Do you want to play that character? Just keep in mind, this isn't the kind of game where playing as a heartless sociopath (like most games) can get you the best rewards. I think a lot of it is that the cruiser is just freakin' scary. It really, really is, let's be fair. I can imagine that's why a lot of people don't want to fight it. But it's worth it. I don't think they realize how valuable it is to drive off a cruiser. The reward is 50k credits! And it's not that difficult either. You just have to position yourself at the very back of it where it can't turn its guns on you. Pick off the guns one by one, until you have a clear shot on the heat vents. You can do it, it is worth it. All kinds of good reasons for fighting against the cruisers. But also, in a fully immersive game like this, having a personal philosophy and some consistency actually help your own gameplay. Once you start siding with slavers, you start getting reputation loss (Good riddance). I mean anyone who thinks slavery is necessary in 3300 is, frankly an idiot. Bam, there's you go. Guiding philosophy. If the Duval girl gets ahead, maybe slavery changes in the Empire or gets abolished. Good stuff. By helping Torval, you turn the tides against Ainsley Duval and hurt the cause against slavery in the Empire. That doesn't have to happen. But you have to have some ambition, and try to go for the cruisers.


Thankfully, in this game there are real penalties for playing like a criminal or a slaver, as is true in the real human world as well. So I'm not interested in doing that, and pigeon holing my game into one part of human space.
You can progress up to the rank of Baron without ever being a slaver, so getting the Imperial Clipper can still be done if you help the slave revolt. Fighting the Empire doesn't lose you reputation very quickly, definitely enough time to dispatch a cruiser and to experience the joy of taking down a target that dangerous.
 
Because the Imperials are not slavers in the sense you are thinking. Imperial Slaves are actually indentured servants (they work for someone for a set period to pay off their debt then are free), not true slaves.

Oh, and because. Imperial for life.

Long Live the Emperor.
All Hail Emperor Duval.
 
The slavery/servitude debate is a really interesting one and many people have been arguing both sides. It's a challenging subject so it's refreshing to see it being tackled head on in a game rather than skirting around it.

Oh, it's Aisling (ash-ling or ash-lin) by the way. You're thinking of Ainsley Harriott. ;)

Ainsley_Harriott.jpg
 
Well dear OP, one can be a criminal and do the right thing;)
Lots of people fighting for the imps means a lot of people after me in the conflict zones,
what a fun being chased by 5 pilots and some AI, chasing and gunning on another CMDR (not a single pint of irony or sarcasm, had a good time).

Ethics and morals in games however? People's choice,
some take a cause, some just relax blowing ships up fighting for
another cause, not necessarily understood.

Please think about formatting your text in a bit more readable manner,
it is hard on the eyes.
 
Im not involved in the official storyline missions at the moment, but just two points:

- you could make the point that imperial slavery is a more ethical / sociallly responsible way to repay a debt, compared to a life of misery and powerty (as could be the consequence in a federal system).

- one important aspect of games / play / pretend, is that you get an opportunity to experience / experiment with different values and worldviews compared to those you hold in real life.
 
Also In this my pilot is an Imperial through and through. Why wouldn't he find against dirty rebels revolting against the lawful government of the Empire?
 
One side doesn't look after its poor, and the other imprisons them. Both major powers are thoroughly rotten and corrupt in this game.

But that's more a reflection on human nature.
 
It's not necessarily indentured servitude, it only works out that way for some people. Some people prefer to sell themselves into a set time period, but there are probably plenty more who don't have that luxury, or whose debt can essentially never be paid off. And then it's passed to their children, who are born slaves, live as slaves, and die as slaves. The person who sets the rules is the slaver. Slaves do have some rights, but what happens when they can't fulfill their contract? Injury? Pregnancy? Poor performance? What do these charges add, to the length of those contracts? Who pays afterwards? The system is broken by its very nature. The nature of a "good job" is entirely subjective, and completely determined by the slaver. Completely broken system.

You can support the Empire without supporting slavery. If power goes to the Duvals, then you're an Imperial, but on the popular side of the room, including with opportunities in Federation and Alliance space. That's definitely, definitely worth it. But it's up to players, including Imperial faithful like yourself, to decide that. Me, I'm hanging around Empire space helping out, climbing ranks, waiting to see if power can be given to the Duvals.

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I totally get that people want to experiment with different philosophies and morals than the ones they hold. That makes sense. Though there are consequences in this game that won't be present in other games you play, and just like in real life, you have to decide whether or not that choice is worth it.
 
It's not necessarily indentured servitude, it only works out that way for some people. Some people prefer to sell themselves into a set time period, but there are probably plenty more who don't have that luxury, or whose debt can essentially never be paid off. And then it's passed to their children, who are born slaves, live as slaves, and die as slaves.

This is not supported in the lore. No where in the lore does it even suggest this at all. Other than the "illegal" slaves that are rampant in the federation underground. All legal Imperial Slaves are indentured servants and enter a set period of time to pay off their debt. Sure some Senators might be corrupt, but someone who supports the Empire is not going to believe that without evidence.

The person who sets the rules is the slaver. Slaves do have some rights, but what happens when they can't fulfill their contract? Injury? Pregnancy? Poor performance? What do these charges add, to the length of those contracts? Who pays afterwards? The system is broken by its very nature. The nature of a "good job" is entirely subjective, and completely determined by the slaver. Completely broken system.

The same could be said of laws. Many of which would not work with loose intepretations. As slavery in the Empire is done under law I am positive it would have as strict a set of rules as an actual law.


You can support the Empire without supporting slavery. If power goes to the Duvals, then you're an Imperial, but on the popular side of the room, including with opportunities in Federation and Alliance space. That's definitely, definitely worth it. But it's up to players, including Imperial faithful like yourself, to decide that. Me, I'm hanging around Empire space helping out, climbing ranks, waiting to see if power can be given to the Duvals.

Um, you really need to read the Empire lore. the Duvals ARE in power. The current Emperor is Hengist Duval.
 
It's not necessarily indentured servitude, it only works out that way for some people. Some people prefer to sell themselves into a set time period, but there are probably plenty more who don't have that luxury, or whose debt can essentially never be paid off. And then it's passed to their children, who are born slaves, live as slaves, and die as slaves. The person who sets the rules is the slaver. Slaves do have some rights, but what happens when they can't fulfill their contract? Injury? Pregnancy? Poor performance? What do these charges add, to the length of those contracts? Who pays afterwards? The system is broken by its very nature. The nature of a "good job" is entirely subjective, and completely determined by the slaver. Completely broken system.

You can support the Empire without supporting slavery. If power goes to the Duvals, then you're an Imperial, but on the popular side of the room, including with opportunities in Federation and Alliance space. That's definitely, definitely worth it. But it's up to players, including Imperial faithful like yourself, to decide that. Me, I'm hanging around Empire space helping out, climbing ranks, waiting to see if power can be given to the Duvals.

Wouldn't say the system is broken, it's just not thoroughly explained. Lots of potential for some interesting reading if FD decides to expand upon the game lore.
 
But Hengist's son is out of favor, and his daughter Aisling has been speaking for him. So if the train of power continues to go through the Duvals, good things happen in the Empire.

That's absolutely true about laws, and indeed that's described as a major problem in the Federation. The Federation is just dirty corrupt. It seems like only the Alliance has a truly democratic system of governance and conduct. But they're not in the picture yet, and don't have military ranks (grr).

What I wonder, is how does a slave remove themselves from continued slavery if they're already poor? Wouldn't they just re-up their contract? Once you're down and out, it's really hard to escape from that place. So with that lore knowledge, could you link some things to show us?
 
It's strange to me that in video games people forget their morals or play as, basically a pure criminal or a total sociopath.
Jeeves' Thread Subject said:
Why side with Torval in a slave revolt? The cruisers are more valuable to kill

It's obviously not that strange to you, Mr I-Decide-Who-To-Murder-Based-On-Profit-Margins. :D
 
He's pointing out there is a financial incentive to fighting for the slaves, yet people are siding against a literal slave revolt in a game for, seemingly, ideological reasons. It's mega weird dawgs.
 
Imperial slavery isn't the same flavor as Federation slavery. My in-game reason is that I see it as an honorable and voluntary indentured servitude to pay off a debt. My meta-game reason is that the rep system leaves enough to be desired that I'm not going to tank rep with a major faction. In my heart I'm independent, eventually I'll be able to play that way -- I find it amusing that everything which is illegal somewhere is legal elsewhere, I can buy/sell/smuggle humans... but nobody is willing to sell me an imperial clipper out the back door of a warehouse.
 
Um, you really need to link some of the Empire lore. ;)

But yeah seriously, would be nice to put up some links to the freely available stuff and get people more invested in the storyline.

http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Empire

There is some. I found some in other places but can't remember them at the moment.

In particular is this line:

The Empire values both status and honour very highly indeed. So whilst it is acceptable to flaunt wealth, treating people well is a question of honour – and this includes slaves. Having an unpaid debt is seen as utterly dishonourable – an honourable Imperial citizen would sell themselves into slavery to clear a debt they couldn’t otherwise clear.
 
The topic is a very interesting one, did we allready have a poll,
on why players are siding with the different sides,
especially in conflict zones?

I imagine the threat of opposing players backed up by a cap-ship,
is a real persuasive factor, along with the lack of compensation on the other side aswell.
You don't get major faction standing and access to restricted ships by helping the loosing party out.

Poll?
 
I
I doubt that there's more than a couple players who actually don't have a problem with slavery, in real life. It's strange to me that in video games people forget their morals or play as, basically a pure criminal or a total sociopath.

While I can't speak for others, I don't tend to play "myself" in games. by that I don't mean that I run around griefing people and trolling the night away, I mean that I come from a roleplaying background and I'm always fascinated by the kinds of belief systems that I would normally find abhorrent . I don't see any contradiction here - I am able to understand real world consequences and have empathy and at the same time realize that this is a fictional world and trading made up people (imperial slaves who are indentured or black market slaves) who don't actually exist and have no hearts to break is not the same as condoning slavery.

By the same token, I also don't wonder around with a weapon looking for anyone that might have committed a crime so that I can get paid for supplying footage of me killing them. Or fit my car with NO2 and cannons. Or park by swerving at full speed and trying to narrowly avoid people and walls. Or check forums while driving long distances.

The attempt to apply real world empathy and rationale is flawed the moment we allow that people might view their characters as "not me".

Edit for TLDR: I trade imperial slaves, toxic waste, weapons and whatever else precisely because I understand the difference between reality and fiction, and have no moral problem engaging in made up crime.
 
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