If people wish to use "lore" or examples of homebuilt turbo engines/overclocking CPUs as their justification, I'll happily debate in the same manner.
Good suggestion there... it would make more sense.
Why so much hate for the Engineers?
- Thread starter Kapow
- Start date
If people wish to use "lore" or examples of homebuilt turbo engines/overclocking CPUs as their justification, I'll happily debate in the same manner.
Good suggestion there... it would make more sense.
The gap widened between fights to the point where if you are not in the exact correct ship with the exact mods to counter the other then you have lost the fight. To even get close to surviving the disparaging differences of the mods that are set behind a huge boring time gate, but is also trapped behind RNG which will require more time.
Now tack on the fact that combat ships are 100 percent going to win against any other ship not fitted for combat. You can even engineer the non combat ships as high as they can go with defensive armors/shields
The current people utilizing said min max mod types are the people who will not pull out anyone other than non combat ships to destroy. Pretty much a guaranteed kill regardless to how much engineering the non combat ship has received.
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Or you know, some people may actually like the fact that engineers take you places and make you do things that you're not used to do.
It just so happens that fun is subjective...
Why do I dislike RNGineers?
Well, ignoring the first and foremost obvious issue of it being RNG'd-up-the-wazoo, the practical effects of RNGineers is that it has widened the disparity from the pre-RNGineers state of 'combat' > 'non-combat', to now being 'RNGineered combat' > 'combat' > 'non-combat'.
With the advent of RNGineers ED is not far off from being deterministic. And that ain't no good thing, me ol' fruities.
I also dislike how it has been awkwardly crowbarred in to prop up other aspects of the game that are unable to hold interest in their own right, rather than actually give those bland gameplay loops dedicated revision.
Well, ignoring the first and foremost obvious issue of it being RNG'd-up-the-wazoo, the practical effects of RNGineers is that it has widened the disparity from the pre-RNGineers state of 'combat' > 'non-combat', to now being 'RNGineered combat' > 'combat' > 'non-combat'.
With the advent of RNGineers ED is not far off from being deterministic. And that ain't no good thing, me ol' fruities.
I also dislike how it has been awkwardly crowbarred in to prop up other aspects of the game that are unable to hold interest in their own right, rather than actually give those bland gameplay loops dedicated revision.
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Yes, and, no offense at all meant, that's why your father built the normal modules we all buy at outfitting, which all have standard performance levels. Because that's production engineering. That is not what we are talking about here.
Overclocking your CPU is not the same sort of "engineering" either. No matter how cool it makes you feel, you're not doing anything that someone else didn't design for you - all within accepted tolerances.
The level of engineering we have in-game is done specifically to the individual piece you bring them - not the overall tolerances allowed for the product line, the actual limits of what's been bolted to your ship, combined with the limits of the scrap you haul in. Because of the range of tolerance levels across the entire product line of your, say, multicannon, when your engineer ignores tolerance ranges entirely, and just does the absolute best that they can do with what you bring them, the result is never going to be uniform.
If you think those people playing ESO and all that have zero complaints about running the same dungeons over and over, you're in for a shock... They have the exact same basic complaints that people do about ED's missions.
Well, I spend a lot of time pulling over combat ships of every make and model, so I wonder what else you're wrong about
To clarify here, because we seem to have a misunderstanding, "accounting for tolerances" doesn't mean the engineer knows the absolute performance potential of each and every part - it means that they know a safe range that the equipment can generally operate under. Most will work fine in that safe range. Some can operate at much higher capacities, but are artificially limited to perform at (or just told and advertised at) the lower level, because that is how having a product line works.
"Accounting" for variances in material quality generally doesn't mean "design to compensate for them" it means "expect (and advertise) the item to work at the lowest possible level you can reasonably expect".
Here's why people hate engineers.
1. They dont want to play Elite: dangerous, they want to play a game they can run a trainer/mod on that gives them infinite everything they want
2. For everyone else not still crying about not having an offline game. They dont like the blatent RNG that has no business being outside of a casino, the balance breaking on top of a game that wasn't optimally balanced to begin with, the repetitive unavailability of certain items due to bug regressions during updates, the lack of anything in the game requiring any level of skill so that everything has to be available to anyone with enough gaming ability to remember to breath leading to almost everything being held behind tedious repetitive or long barriers and if you were trying to avoid going down that grind route you wont be able to with engineers without being at a very real disadvantage.
So in essence, i think most people are complaining about the implementation of engineers rather than the idea of them.
1. They dont want to play Elite: dangerous, they want to play a game they can run a trainer/mod on that gives them infinite everything they want
2. For everyone else not still crying about not having an offline game. They dont like the blatent RNG that has no business being outside of a casino, the balance breaking on top of a game that wasn't optimally balanced to begin with, the repetitive unavailability of certain items due to bug regressions during updates, the lack of anything in the game requiring any level of skill so that everything has to be available to anyone with enough gaming ability to remember to breath leading to almost everything being held behind tedious repetitive or long barriers and if you were trying to avoid going down that grind route you wont be able to with engineers without being at a very real disadvantage.
So in essence, i think most people are complaining about the implementation of engineers rather than the idea of them.
I'd wager near universally, rather than merely 'most'.
That's a story oft found within ED though isn't it: 'great idea, poorly realised.' If nothing else, PP exemplifies this; with RNGineers coming in a very close second.
Well, I spend a lot of time pulling over combat ships of every make and model, so I wonder what else you're wrong about
And nobody can confirm that but you. However there are hundreds and hundreds of hours of combat ships ganking people in non combat ships on youtube and on the various twitch channels. So I guess we have to believe you?
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Sole Hunter
Banned
1) Engineers are nearly impossible to balance.
2) It's terribly designed, probably the worst update ever made by frontier.
3) It's garbage, you are FORCED to grind to acquire the upgrades. I can't pay for them which is ridiculous because i worked hard to get my credits.
4) From a design standpoint they make absolutely no fkg sense.
5) No storage for commodities, who the heck thought it was a good idea.
6) Garbage design in general, just no incentive what so ever to do engineers, boring, mindless grinding.
7) RNG is garbage, no incentive reward it's based on luck and your time is not valued.
8) Broken effects and poorly balanced stats, no sliders, no freedom of choice.
2) It's terribly designed, probably the worst update ever made by frontier.
3) It's garbage, you are FORCED to grind to acquire the upgrades. I can't pay for them which is ridiculous because i worked hard to get my credits.
4) From a design standpoint they make absolutely no fkg sense.
5) No storage for commodities, who the heck thought it was a good idea.
6) Garbage design in general, just no incentive what so ever to do engineers, boring, mindless grinding.
7) RNG is garbage, no incentive reward it's based on luck and your time is not valued.
8) Broken effects and poorly balanced stats, no sliders, no freedom of choice.
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Why would people attack ships that have a good chance at beating them?
The goal FD should have is not eliminating that activity, but ensuring that player A in his combat ship is forced to be in Player B's shoes for part of the time. Ensuring that there is an even amount of being the prey as there is in being the predator.
Engineers actually gets this part a little right in that it _DOES_ force you to become the prey by not allowing players to store/transfer commodities and by making transporting ships take time, it ensures that anyone who wants (and all combat players want) their ship modded up to be the potential victim with all their valuable engineer commodities.
I think a good amount of the crying about engineers is coming from players who are upset that they're not able to accomplish engineers while being safely tucked away in their heavy combat oriented ship.
It's one aspect of the entire game mechanic that's on the right track. Force players to switch to different ships for different roles that they have to participate in. Then you wont have any grounds to complain about being attacked or attacking.
It's irrelevant for you though, you were saying previously you're refunding Horizons.
Holy poop will you stop talking rubbish. Speaking as an actual engineer who's worked on specialist automotive projects for the past 20 years I can categorically state that you don't have the first clue what you're talking. The degree of RNG is WAY beyond anything that can be attributed to "tolerance", so stop trying so hard.
Taking to one side the fact that in-game your hanger can 3d print a fighter from scratch in a minute (which would suggest that the engineers, being at the pinnacle of the tech curve shoudn't be using any old rubbish you bring them, but rather melt them down for the raw materials to go into the 3D printers. Failing that they could, you know TEST them to make sure they're not putting rubbish in there), by your argument Rank 1 Upgrades *should* have very little RNG, after all, they're only Rank 1. Rank 5 is "bleeding edge", so Rank 1 which offers considerably less improvement is, what? "A-bit-sore edge", Rank 2 being "slightly-bruised edge?"
It's a lazy mechanic, that's never proven to be particularly popular and appears to be breaking the game - cue the month long combat beta for rebalancing.
I have a very engineered FDL and I still havent made my decision on the secondary weapon yet. However I do quiet a bit of combat and Its almost impossible to lose a fight in one. I screwed up and shot one of the police in a haz rez yesterday. I kept on killing the pirates for almost 4 minutes while getting shot by the cops. I didnt realize that I was wanted until I target a defense force who was not wanted. I finally had to leave after running out of ammo.
So yes the amount of skill required to stay alive and shoot down other ships is too easy. I took out 2 different wings of anacondas sent after me. One group was Dangerous and the other 2 were Elite. I havent even engineered my Thrusters or distributor as of yet and I am only grade 3 on my shields.
I had a fully engineered T7 and it may as well not have been engineered at all. It made my ship as tough as regular A rated vulture at best. So yes Engineering does make the game super easy and non challenging in any way for combat. Meanwhile all non combat ships still suck even if fully engineered.
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What are you flying btw? No reason, just curious
Seriously, quit talking about stuff you only know from watching videos and overhearing conversations from various players who've dared to go into Open before scurrying back into Mobius to tell the tale of horror...I'm currently in the bounty hunting CG and that's ALL that the PvPers are pulling over right now; any combat ship regardless of rank who's willing to let themselves be interdicted.
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Do you really mean that? How is anybody a prey while engineering Anaconda or FDL or any other ship excluding T9 which nobody flies (I haven't seen a commander in T9 for almost 6 months now). NPCs are so dumb that I could probably take out most of them in T9 with average loudout while flying half blind and drunk like a skunk and I'm only an average pilot in terms of PvP. It doesn't make you "experience" anything excluding frustration and anxiety to a point that a lot of Commanders take the time to post on this forum rather then play the glorious gambling casino called RNGeers...
It just forces you to play half finished placeholder mechanics (yes I'm looking at exploring, mining, rank grinding ect), so you get to unlock a unique Slot Machine. If this mechanic is on the right track and is a sign of what is to come and the community of this game actually backs such atrocity and lazy design, I better wash my hands and walk away while I still have part of my sanity...