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Meanwhile FPS Dave is up on his legs shouting on the comms “Dean, DEAN, get here now Dean, I’m being shot to pieces...”
Why Space Legs?
- Thread starter Layne Vakarian
- Start date
Meanwhile FPS Dave is up on his legs shouting on the comms “Dean, DEAN, get here now Dean, I’m being shot to pieces...”
Planning to use the dismiss button when time comes.If we get legs, don’t forget to take your keys and lock your ship when you go off somewhere. We may need intruder alarms
BTW the first times I used it, it systematically gave shivers being stranded in a lifeless airless rock only separated from by the tiny glass bubble...
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Thanks! I should play NMS further, then.
Harsh
I’ll contest this bit too
The SRV is a neat design fix for varied gravities & surface types for me. (Love skipping over dunes personally
But NMS’s variants are all cartoony fun to knock about in for sure, especially with the hand steering in VR
Will be interesting to see if the SRV ever becomes a ‘safe haven from hazards’ like the above
EDIT: Oh and thanks for mentioning the mechs. Forgot about that, gotta give them a whirl!
Fair enough, to be clear I do enjoy the SRV. I just wish the implementation was less "we are in a spaceship flight simulator so the movement controls must be similar to a spaceship flight simulator" and more "we are in a space game with fun spaceships so let's add fun driving". I do appreciate what they did with giving SRV driving a very high skill ceiling and steep learning curve as a design philosophy, but there's no supported gameplay to actually use that high skill ceiling, and no real equivalent to FA ON.
If I could change the SRV, I would make its shocks capable of actually handling small rocks across all modes, and give it a Drive Assist ON mode that would automatically orient the SRV in midair parallel to the surface it's above, provide downthrust when cornering that made it near impossible to flip at the cost of some cornering speed, make sure jumps are similarly shaped parabolic arcs across planets using downforce while in midair, and just generally make it handle more like a normal game vehicle. DA OFF would still be available for that high skill ceiling to eke out a bit more performance/lot more height, but the normal/first experience of driving it would be basically approachable.
I would also add some sort of supported SRV PvP, ideally racing added at the same time as supported ship racing, to let that high skill ceiling really shine. Deathmatch/Team Deathmatch/Capture The Flag would be great too. I believe those changes would make the SRV more fun for the vast majority of players while preserving that high skill ceiling that gives you the feeling of mastery.
It’s an interesting take, I like the principle. Easy to learn hard to master and all that
. Allow the ‘FA off’ version to reach higher speeds via less resistance from auto-balancing thrusters, and via skilled contact with the surfaces etc, and it’s all good. Plus more esoteric combat moves would be possible too ay I suspect the blocker there is getting the proc gen surfaces to play ball with the more automated easy mode. Getting the surfaces to look right is one thing - getting them to do that & consist of slimmer set of gameplay-favourable inclines is probably another
We’ve also seen the struggles they’ve had to hire someone to fathom AI SRV pathing, and I think some of those issues bleed over. (In the absence of fixed anchors / reference points, can the system read the surface well enough at speed to make the correct call, for both this jump, and the one that follows...)
But now you’ve made me want SRV Rocket League again. They should totally do that
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I see they are no longer advertising for the Vehicle AI programmer, so either they found one or they gave up ... intriguing !
Vehicle AI programmer? What's that about, there are no NPC SRVs? Or do they mean skimmers/NPC ships?
No NPC driving SRVs for the foreseeable future. This careers advert is not new, but it has been re-posted, perhaps with some more specific detail. They haven't found anyone so far, which emphasises the cutting edge of some of the features they seek to implement.
Should we be encouraged they are still looking for someone to take this forward? Yes ! But it means this feature for SRVs will be a long way ahead.
How many programmers would have direct experience of vehicle AI over rugged terrain in games ? A car racing game? On horseback?
Should we be disappointed they don't have it ongoing already? Well, maybe it points to something beyond the New Era? It doesn't look like we will get this 'soon.'
My emphasis is in blue or yellow.
"AI Vehicle Programmer
Frontier are the studio behind Jurassic World Evolution, Elite Dangerous and Planet Coaster. We are Britain’s biggest independent publisher and developer of videogames, based among the world-leading technology cluster in the historic city of Cambridge, England.
We are proud to be named one of the UK’s Best Places to Work by GamesIndustry.biz.
Come join our talented team of programmers working on Elite Dangerous!
We are seeking someone with the knowledge, experience and passion to work on driver AI and the challenges of driving and navigating vehicles on complicated, rugged terrain. You will play a major role in developing new game features for planetary surfaces, taking responsibility for AI control of vehicles and working with the rest of the team to enhance gameplay.
As part of our gameplay programming team, you will work with Frontier’s proprietary COBRA engine and the game systems that create our simulation of the whole galaxy. You will build upon the physics, driving model, navigation and networking systems to create driving AI that understands and explores the surfaces of procedurally generated planets. Working in a cross-discipline game development team you will build an understanding of how vehicle AI fits into the wider game, and help the team to enhance the game with the opportunities that vehicle AI offers.
This is a great opportunity to work on solving new and exciting problems associated with creating AI which can navigate, drive and take part in combat over many different landscapes within a procedurally generated galaxy of over 400 billion star systems, and trillions of planetary surfaces.
Responsibilities
About you
- Engage with QA testing and player feedback to improve the game experience
- Spread knowledge of vehicle AI, mentoring others in best practices
- Take ownership of the technical design and implementation of vehicle AI in the Elite Dangerous galaxy
- Work with the design and content teams to identify requirements and expose functionality
- Collaborate with other programmers to design and implement systems.
Desirable
- Held a programming role on at least one commercially released game for console or PC, developed primarily in C++
- Hands-on experience with game AI programming
- Knowledge of vehicle handling models
- Expertise with route planning, including understanding of performance and memory optimisation
- Worked as part of a large programming team developing a complex codebase
- Looking to develop their career as a programmer.
- Direct experience developing vehicle AI for an open-world game
- Experience of networking player-controlled vehicles or other twitch gameplay systems
- Understanding of game physics engines and driving models
- Strong 3D maths and physics skills
- Familiarity with adding features post-release to games with active players.
- Cross-platform development experience including Xbox One or Playstation 4."
See the above. Maybe there have suddenly been more people looking to change job from the motor vehicle industry !
I've quoted from this thread.
I agree.
It's easy to demand space legs for anyone who has no clue about what game development involves, or who haven't given it any thought. They're asking for another game within a game. And Space legs in ED would ruin the game, plain and simple.
From the player perspective, ED is already a beast to grind. Adding legs produces more grind, as well as bugs and glitches, and it would take longer to get back to flying. Running around in corridors opening doors and looking for my ship - not appealing at all. No thanks.
If you think about it, the closer a game gets to real life, the more boring and tedious it becomes. Why? Because games offer the opportunity to have experiences without all the monotony of life. If you get space legs, then let's add getting up in the morning and getting dressed, brushing your teeth, taking a shower, putting on your uniform, picking up your stuff, calling a cab, waiting for the cab, reading the newspaper, answering the phone,... and 2 hours later you are about to get into your ship. You get my drift. Space legs in ED is a stupid idea.
I'm very happy with ED as a simulator to fly spaceships. I would rather have the developer focus on improving and fine tuning the core game than adding content for players who have no idea what they're talking about.
Do you think "We've improved and fine turned the core game" is going to attract many new gamers ?
Dial down the rhetoric a bit mate. FDev are the ones who have posited Legs as an addition, claim the game was developed to accommodate them, acknowledge that they would be a ‘whole new game’ in terms of technical challenge, and say they’re still set on them. So if you have an issue with the proposal maybe take it up with them...
Here’s some handy reading for you:
Newsletter 32: 'To Launch, and Beyond with the Lifetime Expansion Pass'
We also plan to allow you to get up out of your seat and walk around your ship. You can see the level of attention and thought that has already been given to the ship interiors from these ship cockpit views in this video:
Of course walking round your ship will be nice, but it is the just springboard for a very significant expansion of gameplay – you will be able to experience the inside of starports and interact with other players and AI characters, and even board other people’s ships in space and take them by force, as shown in this concept piece.
Of course this will be further expanded to include walking around on the surfaces of planets too.
Alpha and Premium Beta customers, and those who have already bought the £35 Lifetime Expansion Pass alongside either Beta or the full game, will have access to all these features and updates for as long as we create them at no further cost.
Elite: Dangerous Development Plan (hosted on Kickstarter page - Dec 2014)
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Throw in things like periodic suggestions by FDev that it's still their intent:
And aspects like the 'leak' holding true on its peculiar predictions....
[/LIST]
Then add in background colour like this Sandro quote from March 2017:
Or hell, go back to 2001 and their desire to add 'legs' to initial attempts to get 'Elite 4' off the ground
And maybe you’ll twig that this is a long-held desire at FDev.
And if this stuff pans out, one that’s being tackled to a degree in the 2.5+ year dev run for the PDLC.
Or... and this is a real stab in the dark... they might add the gameplay they’ve mentioned. Stuff like exploring derelict husks, dealing with ship fires, sneaking onto other vessels amongst the cargo. Stuff like that.
Rather than the toothbrush gameplay you’ve just made up in your head.
I know. Even developers have stupid ideas at times. I know many are salivating about space legs - dreaming about raids and laser pistol fights. They still want to COD and SOCOM. It all sound very appealing, but only in theory in your head. And it'll just break ED. Mark my words and dream on.
For me several minor and major things would make spacelegs valuable:
- Non mandatory : unless when I wish to do so, don't replace the mundane actions made in 2 clicks in cockpit with shallow long walking/talking/interacting sessions on foot
- In FPSes there's the famous TTK: the key point to balance a game's design. Spacelegs MUST have a finely tuned Time To Traverse where each action should be aware of the rest of the game's time to do things.
- Expand game loops in ways refreshing from what we already have in our ships : don't "gamify" cargo or repairs, make us do what and go where we can't with our ship as SRV does - not enough though I confess - and with purposes
- ED is a space sim, so take those two words into account with spacelegs (gravity, 6DOF, danger, physics...) without forgetting fun and it won't feel out of place in ED, as SRVs quite satisyingly fit in a space sim.
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Spacelegs...hmmm...i dont know.
To make spacelegs really interesting there has to be a lot of new stuff beside walking around. Special missions that have to be done on foot or combined. And these missions must offer something really new and something that would never be possible without spacelegs. And there has to be a lot of different kinds otherwise people will get bored very quickly.
This is my major problem with the game. Lots of content but all without purpose. It all leads to nothing but doing the same stuff over and over again without any feeling of progression. And currently i doubt that spacelegs could improve this.
To make spacelegs really interesting there has to be a lot of new stuff beside walking around. Special missions that have to be done on foot or combined. And these missions must offer something really new and something that would never be possible without spacelegs. And there has to be a lot of different kinds otherwise people will get bored very quickly.
This is my major problem with the game. Lots of content but all without purpose. It all leads to nothing but doing the same stuff over and over again without any feeling of progression. And currently i doubt that spacelegs could improve this.
So it's one word now? "Spacelegs"?
Why not just abbreviate it even further? "Splegs"
Playing a game with space legs, I'm actually asking myself "Why an SRV?" I can easily land my Krait at the spot I wish to interact with walk / jog / jetpack to mine ore or press buttons or whatever. The SRV really isn't necessary for me, especially when I can carry SLFs that can also land and haul items like small shuttles. In my scenario, I had to choose between an SRV or SLF, and I've decided the latter is the better choice.
