Modes Why trade in open ?

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Learn what a strawman is. I'm not drawing your statement in the extrene or rediculous and attack that instead of your actual statement. I even quoted your statement and didn't paraphrase any of it.

But I do recognise a dodge when I see it.

Hardly a dodge,

"Then it hit me, All this griefing people are complaining about why is it? Why is there toxicity in this game. When combat vs other players was indeed intended? Whats going on here?

Well as you know, it turns out. People can just Opt out of it when they face each other for the objective."

Not dodging a thing, Ill post it myself.

You're missing the point. The reason the PVP community is small. Is because you cant actually fight over objectives because people use the options we have with private and solo.

So anything that does happen thats related to direct PVP is a grief. There is no understanding for direct PVP. Because you dont have to do it.

But people are still fighting over objectives, just with hauling. Which was not powerplays Intent as sandro stated in the video, that Powerplay was made for direct PVP, because they had to fudge the crime response. "because who wants cops coming in for consensual pvp, thats what powerplay was for." When the people doing it are perfectly capable of PVP. But its not efficient to do it. Because of those options. Which disolves any meaning for "direct pvp" as everyone around here puts it.

That doesnt happen because of the META it created. Not because people are opting out of it cause the feel "greifed" but because thats how you are the most efficient. Same thing with BGS Faction Wars. You're essentially going against other PLAYERS. And not the basic NPC's of the galaxy. You're doing something to make an impact against someone else.

Now, there is no dodging here. Pretty straight forward.

 

[Jockey79]

Hardly a dodge,

"Then it hit me, All this griefing people are complaining about why is it? Why is there toxicity in this game. When combat vs other players was indeed intended? Whats going on here?

Well as you know, it turns out. People can just Opt out of it when they face each other for the objective."

Not dodging a thing, Ill post it myself.

You're missing the point. The reason the PVP community is small. Is because you cant actually fight over objectives because people use the options we have with private and solo.

So anything that does happen thats related to direct PVP is a grief. There is no understanding for direct PVP. Because you dont have to do it.

But people are still fighting over objectives, just with hauling. Which was not powerplays Intent as sandro stated in the video, that Powerplay was made for direct PVP, because they had to fudge the crime response. "because who wants cops coming in for consensual pvp, thats what powerplay was for." When the people doing it are perfectly capable of PVP. But its not efficient to do it. Because of those options. Which disolves any meaning for "direct pvp" as everyone around here puts it.

That doesnt happen because of the META it created. Not because people are opting out of it cause the feel "greifed" but because thats how you are the most efficient. Same thing with BGS Faction Wars. You're essentially going against other PLAYERS. And not the basic NPC's of the galaxy. You're doing something to make an impact against someone else.

Now, there is no dodging here. Pretty straight forward.

You dodged my post showing people do want to do it though, you still claim they don't despite me showing they do a few posts back.
Just like you dodge Sandro retracting incentives in a live stream and dodge David Braben saying Elite is more a Co-Op game than anything.
You dodge the game design that clearly proves Elite is a PvE game and PvP is a secondary concern at best.

We should call you Patches O'Houlihan.
Although that may make me White Goodman..... so I probably got this joke backwards

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Hardly a dodge,

"Then it hit me, All this griefing people are complaining about why is it? Why is there toxicity in this game. When combat vs other players was indeed intended? Whats going on here?

Well as you know, it turns out. People can just Opt out of it when they face each other for the objective."

Not dodging a thing, Ill post it myself.

You're missing the point. The reason the PVP community is small. Is because you cant actually fight over objectives because people use the options we have with private and solo.

So anything that does happen thats related to direct PVP is a grief. There is no understanding for direct PVP. Because you dont have to do it.

But people are still fighting over objectives, just with hauling. Which was not powerplays Intent as sandro stated in the video, that Powerplay was made for direct PVP, because they had to fudge the crime response. "because who wants cops coming in for consensual pvp, thats what powerplay was for." When the people doing it are perfectly capable of PVP. But its not efficient to do it. Because of those options. Which disolves any meaning for "direct pvp" as everyone around here puts it.

That doesnt happen because of the META it created. Not because people are opting out of it cause the feel "greifed" but because thats how you are the most efficient. Same thing with BGS Faction Wars. You're essentially going against other PLAYERS. And not the basic NPC's of the galaxy. You're doing something to make an impact against someone else.

Now, there is no dodging here. Pretty straight forward.

Indeed. I'm glad you conceded modes have nothing to do with griefing. Griefing is very present in games which have no solo or pg modes . Often griefing is more frequent there because players can't choose another mode.

You dodged my post showing people do want to do it though

He dodges everything he can be cornered on and simply repeats it afterwards.

Oh well, at least he's aware in that sense how poor his argument is.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Indeed. I'm glad you conceded modes have nothing to do with griefing. Griefing is very present in games which have no solo or pg modes . Often griefing is more frequent there because players can't choose another mode.



He dodges everything he can be cornered on and simply repeats it afterwards.

Oh well, at least he's aware in that sense how poor his argument is.

You guys see it as dodging. I see it as you guys lacking experience in this area by your own self admittance by not taking part in the activities we are talking about here.

And every time it boils down to no more excuses coming from you two.

It ends up like this, "Well, even if they do make those changes we have the block feature".

Everything Sandro has said about Open being risker when it comes to Risk and Reward is true. None of that changes. Just because they havnt made those changes. Doesnt mean anything hes said is false.

When I first came here 6 months ago, I come on my own accord. See the problems on my own. Just like OP here in this post. And there is another post that just popped up as well. These guys see the issues by their own fruition.

I didnt know anything Sandro has said in the past. I didnt even know what Hotel California was. But I could see the issues at hand. Because I experienced them.

Maybe you guys should join a group. Play in open. And learn to outfit your ships Vs other commanders. Learn what PVP is all about. And actually fight for systems in game against other players. Because you guys haven't. You've said so yourselves.

So tell me, why would anyone listen to you guys with 0 experience in the matter?

Cause you've been posting on the forums since 2014? Cause you've made a wall of text to fit your side of the argument? An argument where you literally have no horse in the race to begin with? Pretty Ironic coming from a guy named Jockey....

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

And another dodge. So I'll just repeat myself.

Modes don't cause griefing. This is clear when you look at other mmo's without these modes and with more frequent occasions of griefing. This makes sense since the griefer has access to the entire playerbase.

Griefers cause griefing. Griefers grief because they think it's fun.

Edit: I have no one blocked and never bring it up. So you're wrong there as well.

You are wrong a lot aren't you?

Oh and by the way, last part of your post? Ad Hominem.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

And another dodge. So I'll just repeat myself.

Modes don't cause griefing. This is clear when you look at other mmo's without these modes and with more frequent occasions of griefing. This makes sense since the griefer has access to the entire playerbase.

Griefers cause griefing. Griefers grief because they think it's fun.

Edit: I have no one blocked and never bring it up. So you're wrong there as well.

You are wrong a lot aren't you?

IM NOT DODGING anything.

Its simple, You opt of out direct PVP because you can take objectives from other players. Which are PVP actions. Anytime someone is opposed they say they will get "Griefed and Ganked"

Heres some more VIDEO PROOF,

[video=youtube;cnYXTh4TCVo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnYXTh4TCVo[/video]

Listen to his words. Listen to what he says. He even says, "so we'll stay where were very comfortable." Because he knows he could have been stopped. While attacking another Players Faction. Not an NPC.

Like I said, this is you talking with 0 Experience. Vs someone who has Experience.

Me wrong? Not in the slightest. Ive given video evidence to back up every single one of my claims. And if its not Video, its Direct posts from the lead game developer. And Im merely pointing out the details and why hes said what he said.

Saying im wrong, is literally saying Sandros wrong.

Think about that for a minute.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

IM NOT DODGING anything.

Yes you are, you just did it again.

Its simple, You opt of out direct PVP because you can take objectives from other players. Which are PVP actions. Anytime someone is opposed they say they will get "Griefed and Ganked"

Heres some more VIDEO PROOF,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnYXTh4TCVo

Listen to his words. Listen to what he says.

Like I said, this is you talking with 0 Experience. Vs someone who has Experience.

Me wrong? Not in the slightest. Ive given video evidence to back up every single on of my claims. And if its not Video, its Direct posts from the lead game developer. And Im merely pointing out the details and why hes said what he said.

Saying im wrong, is literally saying Sandros wrong.

Think about that for a minute.

Sandro doesn't claim the modes are responsible for griefing. You are. You are very desperate to avoid or dodge that.

Modes don't cause griefing. This is clear when you look at other mmo's without these modes and with more frequent occasions of griefing. This makes sense since the griefer has access to the entire playerbase.

Griefers cause griefing. Griefers grief because they think it's fun.

And this by the way:

Anytime someone is opposed they say they will get "Griefed and Ganked"

is a hyperbole. And a huge one at that.

So ... you about ready to admit that the modes are not responsible for griefing?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Listen to his words. Listen to what he says. He even says, "so we'll stay where were very comfortable." Because he knows he could have been stopped. While attacking another Players Faction. Not an NPC.

Against better judgement I listened to this guy.

You are aware he's taking the pee right? I mean ... tell me you are aware of that?

edit: ? That's your video.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Yes you are, you just did it again.


Sandro doesn't claim the modes are responsible for griefing. You are. You are very desperate to avoid or dodge that.

Modes don't cause griefing. This is clear when you look at other mmo's without these modes and with more frequent occasions of griefing. This makes sense since the griefer has access to the entire playerbase.

Griefers cause griefing. Griefers grief because they think it's fun.

And this by the way:

is a hyperbole. And a huge one at that.

So ... you about ready to admit that the modes are not responsible for griefing?

Now you're arguing for the sake of it.

I just explained a few posts back. Because PVP has no meaning in this game because of the modes. Any direct PVP is resorted to griefing. Just like that guy said.

Again, you say im dodging. I say YOU HAVE 0 EXPERIENCE. Because you dont. Anyone with experience in this can tell you that.

The modes have caused the word "griefing" to be thrown around anytime someone is opposed. It happens on a daily basis. Live on stream, In front of the world. Even with Fdev present.

That guy that was attacking us. Literally said the same thing.

There are griefers out there. And after visiting these forums. I dont blame them. By all means some of you deserve it.

But when you go to a CG to play a fed, and go after IMP ships. They'll call you a griefer.

Why dont you try go playing a bad guy and find out?

Again, 0 experience. Go get some then come back and talk to me.

Against better judgement I listened to this guy.

You are aware he's taking the pee right? I mean ... tell me you are aware of that?

edit: ? That's your video.

There is a reason he said. Regardless of him being sarcastic. Because he knows of the imbalance. And is taking advantage of it.

Again we are talking about PVP, All of it. Not just going and trading. Any changes made to this, would revolve around player factions and powerplay.

And since you dont take part in any of those. Go give you input on something else like exploring or whatever. Because you lack the experience to give any valuable input here. And your comments show that. Cause you cant see what I am talking about here.

You just say I am dodging. Cause you dont get it. You dont get it, cause you have 0 EXPERIENCE.

 

[Jockey79]

Cause you've been posting on the forums since 2014?

Because I've been playing the game since then, I clearly know way more about it than you do.
That's why I don't have to pretend I'm smarter or know more and keep telling people it - I actually do know and don't have to prove it.

Hence why I gave up the idea of Open Play Bounty Hunter and sold my Viper and Cobra and bought a Type 6 back then, because I actually understand the game and how it works.

I quite enjoy my bouts of exploration, PvP, smuggling, racing and SRV joy riding. But trading will always be my true love within the game mechanics.
It would have been Power Play if it wasn't for module shoppers messing everything up. If they removed that from PP, it would be great.
As people would sign up to powers for the lore, not the utility value and move on every few weeks.

It's a casual space game, with optional features like PP, RNGneers, PvP - all of which can be ignored or enjoyed session by session.
This game is more chilled than Bob Marley with his favourite bag of herbs.

Hence, you can even fly about shooting the Sheriff and the deputy if you want to. It's all good.

Anyway, time for you to dodge and carry on crowing how great you think you are while insulting the rest of us.
Because you clearly have no intent to improve them game for anyone other those looking for fish.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Because I've been playing the game since then, I clearly know way more about it than you do.
That's why I don't have to pretend I'm smarter or know more and keep telling people it - I actually do know and don't have to prove it.

Hence why I gave up the idea of Open Play Bounty Hunter and sold my Viper and Cobra and bought a Type 6 back then, because I actually understand the game and how it works.

I quite enjoy my bouts of exploration, PvP, smuggling, racing and SRV joy riding. But trading will always be my true love within the game mechanics.
It would have been Power Play if it wasn't for module shoppers messing everything up. If they removed that from PP, it would be great.
As people would sign up to powers for the lore, not the utility value and move on every few weeks.

It's a casual space game, with optional features like PP, RNGneers, PvP - all of which can be ignored or enjoyed session by session.
This game is more chilled than Bob Marley with his favourite bag of herbs.

Hence, you can even fly about shooting the Sheriff and the deputy if you want to. It's all good.

Anyway, time for you to dodge and carry on crowing how great you think you are while insulting the rest of us.
Because you clearly have no intent to improve them game for anyone other those looking for fish.

Just because you played it longer, doesnt mean youve taken part in every aspect of this game.

Your comments show that.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

You just say I am dodging.

I'm not just saying it, you are.

Dodging means not wanting to address a point the feller you're arguing with made. You have done this 3 times in a row, 3 times posting the same irrelevant come back.

So you most definitely are dodging.

Cause you dont get it. You dont get it, cause you have 0 EXPERIENCE.

Instead you use Ad Hominem. You attack the poster's credibility, not his argument.

The argument being: So, if these modes are the cause of griefing, you would expect games which don't have them to have less of it, wouldn't you? The reverse is true. And it's obvious it's true, because in Elite the griefers do not have access to the entire playerbase, where in other games they do.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I know, I'll just go Solo.

So, if these modes are the cause of griefing, you would expect games which don't have them to have less of it, wouldn't you? The reverse is true. And it's obvious it's true, because in Elite the griefers do not have access to the entire playerbase, where in other games they do.

I dunno Ziggy. You have to keep in mind how bleeding big the galaxy is. Even the Bubble is huge. So it makes sense there's less griefing in Elite.

 

[Jockey79]

Just because you played it longer, doesnt mean youve taken part in every aspect of this game.

I actually have, though I don't need to keep crowing about it.

Your comments show that.

And yours show how little you know Elite: Dangerous and how it works or why it is being made.

It's Elite: Dangerous, not COD in Space or EVE in cockpits.
Star Citizen is aiming for the style of play you want.

When you accept you bought the wrong game, things will get better.
You can consider jumping over to SC and getting the game play you want.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I dunno Ziggy. You have to keep in mind how bleeding big the galaxy is. Even the Bubble is huge. So it makes sense there's less griefing in Elite.

Excellent point Ziggy.

But the situation in other games still does show that having everyone in the same mode is not a cure all against griefing. Plus the principle stays true.

With modes you can play in a different mode than the griefers. Which cuts down on their targets. So modes are a very effective tool against griefers. Now I'm not saying that no player ever turned to griefing because that player was disgruntled by actions in other modes, but that's such a situational event it can't have a bigger impact than a tried and true method of not encountering a griefer.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

I'm not just saying it, you are.

Dodging means not wanting to address a point the feller you're arguing with made. You have done this 3 times in a row, 3 times posting the same irrelevant come back.

So you most definitely are dodging.


Instead you use Ad Hominem. You attack the poster's credibility, not his argument.

The argument being: So, if these modes are the cause of griefing, you would expect games which don't have them to have less of it, wouldn't you? The reverse is true. And it's obvious it's true, because in Elite the griefers do not have access to the entire playerbase, where in other games they do.

Whatever you say man. You guys can argue it all you want. Please by all means. Go for it.

Video evidence backs up everything I have said.

But nothing you guys have said will discredit me, nor Sandros points.

The modes has caused Griefing. Because you either have good guys, or bad guys. There is no healthy PVP in this game. The outlets for Healthy PVP has been removed by the modes.

When people ask who are the bad guys in this game? It sure as hell aint the Thargoids is it? No, Its SDC. Them no good griefers? Right?

Powerplay has failed because it was a game design to give an outlet for Direct PVP. But instead the modes killed that outlet.

So instead the bad guys are called griefers, the community cant tell who SDC is and who isn't. I cant tell you how many times Ive been fighting a SDC member LIVE on stream. And someone 2 hours later has said I was SDC, just because I am a PVPer.

I play the Good guy in Elite Dangerous, Ive hunted Zarek Null, Even Algomatic in Eravate. Ask him he will tell you.

But no, because I pvp in general I am a griefer.

Heres something else that will blow your mind. My first Subscriber and follower in Elite Dangerous when I started streaming it. Was this guy. He was with me for about 6 months.

I joined up with GCI, where that group of people Teach the game and is based of Consensual PVP. They had their own set of rules, like no premium, Dont come back to a fight after you die in a wing fight and so on.

All consensual. Both good guys and Bad guys together. This place was just made for PVP, with no objectives. (Yes I know the place can get toxic, but no more than it is here in the modes of elite with the snarky comments.)

Anyways, when I got into PVP, CONSENSUAL PVP. The guy left, and left this note when he Unsubbed, https://imgur.com/HBQlrzh

All because I was looking for HEALTHY PVP. Not Griefing. Because if you stop someone in this game over an objective People call it griefing.

Now take you and your 0 experience, saying im dodging questions. And go somewhere else. Because I've proven you wrong YET AGAIN.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Excellent point Ziggy.

But the situation in other games still does show that having everyone in the same mode is not a cure all against griefing. Plus the principle stays true.

With modes you can play in a different mode than the griefers. Which cuts down on their targets. So modes are a very effective tool against griefers. Now I'm not saying that no player ever turned to griefing because that player was disgruntled by actions in other modes, but that's such a situational event it can't have a bigger impact than a tried and true method of not encountering a griefer.

That's probably right Ziggy.

Well, I'm glad we cleared that up, I was a little uneasy when you made the comparison with other games.

Have a good one mate!

 

[Mouse]

90....

why do you keep thinking that those of us who tell you that you are wrong have 0 experience? And why do you keep crowing on your "expertise" but ignore that many other people who disagree with you have been playing the game from the start and all the aspects of it? Do you seriously believe that if someone has done everything in the game that they would view things just as you do?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

That's probably right Ziggy.

Well, I'm glad we cleared that up, I was a little uneasy when you made the comparison with other games.

Have a good one mate!

Cheers!

Have a nice weekend!

(Thanks Mouse for posting )

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

90....

why do you keep thinking that those of us who tell you that you are wrong have 0 experience? And why do you keep crowing on your "expertise" but ignore that many other people who disagree with you have been playing the game from the start and all the aspects of it? Do you seriously believe that if someone has done everything in the game that they would view things just as you do?

Because people by their own self admittance dont take part in any of this stuff. But they fight against it. And its the same people everytime. Its a joke of an argument they bring to the table.