WHY!?

While I like the enthusiasm to encourage people to fly in Open, I think most of the risk averse people are rich enough the cost doesn’t matter. It’s a factor of time and that someone else blew them up for fun that makes them stay out of open more than anything.

I suppose cash does cover some of the time thing, but it wouldn’t cover that someone else had fun at their explosion. Just my two cents.
It's not so much the time or the cash specifically, for explorers in particular it's discovery tags that are the important thing, but yeah, ego is a big part of it. The other day I was doing my joke pirate routine and pulled a guy - they logged out on the spot. I suspect they had the menu open the instant we dropped together. I didn't ask for cargo and I doubt his rebuy was bank-breaking.

If anything I found the guy vanishing into the ether despite not actually being at risk of losing anything to be funnier than an explosion would have been.
 
It's not so much the time or the cash specifically, for explorers in particular it's discovery tags that are the important thing, but yeah, ego is a big part of it. The other day I was doing my joke pirate routine and pulled a guy - they logged out on the spot. I suspect they had the menu open the instant we dropped together. I didn't ask for cargo and I doubt his rebuy was bank-breaking.

If anything I found the guy vanishing into the ether despite not actually being at risk of losing anything to be funnier than an explosion would have been.
Good point on the data - and it probably should be a thing that pvp kills don’t wipe exploration data.
 
While I like the enthusiasm to encourage people to fly in Open, I think most of the risk averse people are rich enough the cost doesn’t matter. It’s a factor of time and that someone else blew them up for fun that makes them stay out of open more than anything.

I suppose cash does cover some of the time thing, but it wouldn’t cover that someone else had fun at their explosion. Just my two cents.

nobody needs to encourage players to use the different modes of playing.

afraid of getting killed in the game, stick to non-open modes where the difficulty is between extremely easy and optionally medium - entirely at your opt-in.

don't care, play open. it's mostly the same as the other modes except in half a dozen systems.

it really doesn't matter because it's not like the game takes advantage of anything that would evolve from multiplayer interaction directly. it changes nothing if you somehow convinced all of the player base to play in open or any other mode. you can't do anything special or interesting in open and if you tried to create something in game, the network design makes it impossible to enforce. you would just start having people with 'unfortunate' network setups that drop out of shared sessions at will while still being in open and that's indistinguishable from the current designed behaviour. nobody bothers doing that now because there's no reason to.


compromise has kept this game in the purgatory it is in. either modding or if fdev went all in one way or the other for the kind of game they want elite to be it could be so much better. it may not be what i like, but it would at least be a better game for what someone likes. not squandering all the great tech it got funded around while slowly becoming irrelevant and dated while it's competitors around it just get better. the modding route lets everyone win as best as that could be.
 
nobody needs to encourage players to use the different modes of playing.

Sure, but I encourage open because I’ve seen over the years and a few account resets that it produces more well rounded players and people more capable of utilizing game sense/knowledge and build theory than PG/Solo usually does. I don’t do it because I need to.
 
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I want to play a risk adverse character, who needs to take risks to get ahead--perhaps even to get by or survive--who dies twice a month, despite my absolute best efforts to keep him safe. The proverbial box told me it was supposed to be a cutthroat galaxy, not post-scarcity paradise.

My ideal Elite: Dangerous game would a fully Newtonian, single instance, persistent world, massively multiplayer, iron-man only, actually dystopian, survival horror, space shooter, with economic and demographic simulations that put the scope and accuracy of the Stellar Forge to shame.

Defence engineering powercreep is definitely a problem. A lot of people scream at the idea of toning it down because they won't be able to stride around in their invincible
View attachment 397511
while completely ignoring any damage output that NPCs throw at them, but it's this exact same powercreep that allows PvPers to gank with utter impunity.

Hell, look at how many times people complain about "invincible G5 murderboats" - the first word is important there. All ships are able to have guns, but they might as well be firing feather dusters for all the good it'll do against an engineered ship.

While I agree that power creep is a problem, ganking was probably easier, on the mean, before Engineering. Offense, at least where the focus fire from a wing isn't a factor, hasn't scaled anywhere near as much as defense has, even when comparing a maximally Engineered aggressor to a marginally Engineered defender. TTK is the main factor and the initiator of violence tends to have critical seconds where their opponent needs to get their bearings, especially if that opponent is not experienced.

On a side note, my CMDR has been shot down more in a fully Engineered Corvette than any other ship, by far. It's slow, relatively complex to manage (especially the hybrid loadouts I favor), and tends to lead one to overcommit against too many CMDRs simultaneously. More time to explode means more opportunity to make mistakes. Conversely, he's got 2-2.5k hours in the FLD with three FDL hull losses in about five hundred PvP engagements, and two of those were in organized matches where running wasn't an option.

While I like the enthusiasm to encourage people to fly in Open, I think most of the risk averse people are rich enough the cost doesn’t matter. It’s a factor of time and that someone else blew them up for fun that makes them stay out of open more than anything.

I suppose cash does cover some of the time thing, but it wouldn’t cover that someone else had fun at their explosion. Just my two cents.

I know that kind of outlook is a thing, but it's always puzzled me.

Personally, I think I'd find being shot down by any NPC vastly more damaging to my ego than being shot down by any CMDR. Been about ten years since an NPC has managed that though, so maybe I'd just be pleasantly surprised.

Good point on the data - and it probably should be a thing that pvp kills don’t wipe exploration data.

PvP kills should definitely continue to wipe out exploration data.

Such data is a hugely potent form of BGS influence. It can be stockpiled en masse and ad infinitum. It's safe and easy to collect and remains when one swaps ships. It can be dispersed with high granularity, at will, in response to rapid changes.

Personally, I only explore in Open and only sell data in Open, because I feel it would be distinctly unsporting to deny my CMDRs potential foes the experience of seeing my CMDR stalking around their backyard knowing that he was going to drop a big fat data turd all over their hard work and not be able to do anything about it anyway (though I'd like it even more if they could do something about it, but that defensive inflation makes the submit high-wake routine pretty foolproof for someone who knows how to dodge dumbfires).

Risk in Open is mostly an illusion, but it's a pleasant illusion that I can't get in any other mode.
 
Risk in Open is mostly an illusion, but it's a pleasant illusion that I can't get in any other mode.
I'm just now getting to the point where it's becoming an illusion, after almost 4 years and over 5500 hours. The PII is very fun to fly in open...on a mission of denial...
 
Defence engineering powercreep is definitely a problem. A lot of people scream at the idea of toning it down because they won't be able to stride around in their invincible
View attachment 397511
while completely ignoring any damage output that NPCs throw at them, but it's this exact same powercreep that allows PvPers to gank with utter impunity.

Hell, look at how many times people complain about "invincible G5 murderboats" - the first word is important there. All ships are able to have guns, but they might as well be firing feather dusters for all the good it'll do against an engineered ship.

And guess how much engineering most people tend to have when they're taking their meta-alloy to deciat for the first time?
During beta for FCs I modified my Anaconda to be a chonky ingot, and it took ATR about ten minutes of shooting to break it. I contrast that with 1.x era CZs, when I'd be dropped into the middle and sometimes have to nope out as everything starts shooting.

Deciat-like issues could be overcome via design- FD could have made engineers differently. For example, once an engineer is unlocked grades 1-3 could be done via tech brokers ending bottlenecks for new players.
 
During beta for FCs I modified my Anaconda to be a chonky ingot, and it took ATR about ten minutes of shooting to break it. I contrast that with 1.x era CZs, when I'd be dropped into the middle and sometimes have to nope out as everything starts shooting.

Deciat-like issues could be overcome via design- FD could have made engineers differently. For example, once an engineer is unlocked grades 1-3 could be done via tech brokers ending bottlenecks for new players.
Though you still have to unlock them, (1 unit of metaalloy) which is when things happen. Once unlocked you can engineer at any station provided you pinned a blueprint.
For a while tier 1 engineers unlocked automatically (I don't know if that's still the case) though you still had to go to pin your blueprint and level up the engineer.
 
Though you still have to unlock them, (1 unit of metaalloy) which is when things happen. Once unlocked you can engineer at any station provided you pinned a blueprint.
For a while tier 1 engineers unlocked automatically (I don't know if that's still the case) though you still had to go to pin your blueprint and level up the engineer.
True, although if it were me I'd have missions that don't require a visit to unlock / 1-3 are available at tech brokers with only 4-5 require the personal touch.

This way casuals don't have to go to bottleneck systems.

But then I'd also have done engineering as a series of experimental perks alone with none of the 1-5.
 
Well I can tell you that’s not gonna change my mind.
The thing is, people can very rarely understand an opposing view.

Open game, PvP ... there's no risk. What do you fly? FDL battle corvette, etc. I even do scouting on a warship, at least a fast one, so I can get away.

What about trade? What about mining, etc. ... I'm not interested in that.
 
The thing is, people can very rarely understand an opposing view.
I can understand the interest in BGS, I just am not very interested in it myself. Along with that, I don't think the exploration data loss on PvP actually does almost anything for BGS, because most people are just going to sell in Solo. Yes people will show up who only fly in Open, only explore in Open, and only sell data in Open, but they are not the norm at all. So, I don't think that BGS is interesting, and I also don't think the point has much behind it in terms of practical weight. Understanding the view is a big reason why it's not changing my mind.
 
I know this thread is a few months old, but wanted to give my unasked for opinion on the subject of ganking. FDev need to make player on player combat completely optional in open. Well, that is if they want more people to play in open. The vast majority of players in any game do not enjoy PvP, especially when it is forced on them. It's a cold, hard fact. Most people simply will not play in open if there is even a risk of being ganked by someone, and even if it didn't cost them credits for a rebuy. It's just the way it is. 12 years ago I played MMO's that had PvP servers ( I do enjoy balanced PvP) and those servers were always the first to close down. They just couldn't keep a population on them due to all the player who live to grief others. It's no different here all this time later.

If you want to see more people play in open on a regular basis then make PvP of any kind optional only. Otherwise just get used to open play being a ghost town for the most part.
 
I know this thread is a few months old, but wanted to give my unasked for opinion on the subject of ganking. FDev need to make player on player combat completely optional in open. Well, that is if they want more people to play in open. The vast majority of players in any game do not enjoy PvP, especially when it is forced on them. It's a cold, hard fact. Most people simply will not play in open if there is even a risk of being ganked by someone, and even if it didn't cost them credits for a rebuy. It's just the way it is. 12 years ago I played MMO's that had PvP servers ( I do enjoy balanced PvP) and those servers were always the first to close down. They just couldn't keep a population on them due to all the player who live to grief others. It's no different here all this time later.

If you want to see more people play in open on a regular basis then make PvP of any kind optional only. Otherwise just get used to open play being a ghost town for the most part.
Open at JM has been so busy for the last couple of days I've had to go into PG just to get a stable instance. People have been insisting for the last ten years that pvp is killing the game and yet the game has chugged along regardless.

The solution has been presented to you on the main menu since day one, use it.
 
Open at JM has been so busy for the last couple of days I've had to go into PG just to get a stable instance. People have been insisting for the last ten years that pvp is killing the game and yet the game has chugged along regardless.

The solution has been presented to you on the main menu since day one, use it.
Frankly, friend, I don't have the time to sift through the main menu to find the "solution" you mention, which I assume is to simply play in solo mode. If that's the case then I stand by what I said. The game may not die if the possibility of forced PvP remains a feature of open, but it will never gain a healthier open population.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
👆this!

There's no forced PvP in open, just lack of awareness.
Has the ability to interdict other players been removed? Similarly can players no longer damage other players when shooting at them?

If the answer to these questions is "no" then the ability to force combat interactions on other players in either multi-player game mode is still in place.
 
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