It doesn't matter. I mean, there's NPC massacres in the game, but no human massacres.
There's a clear separation between NPCs and humans.
WHY!?
- Thread starter Commander Holroyd
- Start date
There's a clear separation between NPCs and humans.
Deleted member 305477
D
It matters to me
I'm very happy to be a part of the pilots' federation ... and I refuse massacre missions anyhow, but that's just me.
In the context of the game, NPCs are humans, just like players are. It’s just that all players are members of the Pilots Federation, while no NPCs are.
That's what I'm writing about, your cruelty is only against the computer, there is no cruelty against living people, unless the person does it himself.
According to the game lore there is a sect of people that say that the Thargoids are good, such even exist on the forum, but that does not mean that they are good.
If you take a "massacre 20 haulers" mission, you can certainly log into Open Mode, then find and kill 20 human haulers and complete your mission.
The missions do not specify humans or NPC as targets for it. That is down to you to decide, to be "cruel" to the NPCs or be "cruel" to humans.
That's all I wrote about above. This is pure fantasy of people, not mandatory requirements of the game. The game allows it as well as races on SRV.
If the game had no divisions between humans and NPCs, then everything would look different.
And in the context of the game, there is no computer, only living people. Just like in the context of a book, there is no paper and ink, but living people. Or in the context of a TV program or movie, there are no actors (human, ink, or CGI), but living people. You’re confusing the medium with the message.
Now, if you don’t care about the message, only “ships go boom,” that's fine. But a lot of us do care about the message. We care about the glimpse of future the Elite franchise provides us. We care about world building done not just a few lines of text at a tourist POI, but what the game mechanics have to say about life in the 34th century of the Elite Universe, and how the Pilots Federation has transformed, over the course of a generation, from a trade union of independent pilots into something far more sinister.
It’s a fascinating study of how game mechanics affects world building, and how a poorly implemented crime & consequences system can have unintended consequences for how players perceive that world. And that world is far more dystopian than Frontier seems to have intended it to be, judging by the lore snippets we get in game, and the primary driving force behind that dystopia is the Pilots Federation.
Deleted member 305477
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There is the shipboard computer systems, used to run the bounty and ranking system, over which the pilots federation has the monopoly; I'd argue that this is the only thing that needs updating to put the federation back on track. That it is the 'computer' in the game, it is galnet.
There is no issue in solo mode, nor in certain group modes, but I really dislike the group mode as that is falling back on the galactic overlord as a solution. What is needed is an adjustment to the shipboard computer and garnet system that adapts to the world as a multiplay world with vastly differing play styles, particularly that which I've eluded to above, with anti-social dominators/manipulators at one end of the spectrum and civilised cooperative role-players at the other end.
The system must take account of this, and if re-buy's are considered to be a 'life' icon and you money pot the number of little ships in the 'arcade' unreal tournament death match version of the game, I'd suggest something like karma and reincarnation with values passing between lives as an incentive not to devalue the game of others, for ones own amusement; More attention to PvP as in CQC could go a long way in resolving this issue too.
Essentially, this issue with the current functionality is that some players are looking for full immersion, where as others are exploring/exploiting the edges of the game, to find the game play that they are looking for. Of course using the edges of the game in such a way is going to be game breaking for folk who engage in the more immersive play style.
I don't see a dystopian world, no more dystopian at least, than that which is just outside my window.
Elite is also very funny at times:
Stated on the line: "Our democracy relies on the large-scale transportation of information. You may need to enlists associates for this mission."
Interpreted between the lines: "Our democracy relies on the large-scale application of propaganda, if we don't get enough alcohol through then the propaganda may fail."
Is it dystopian? I think it just plain funny, certainly amusing enough to keep me interested in running missions and developing my skills along the way. I currently run most in open mode but alone, not adversed to team play but, as it is in the real world too, very good associates and friends are extremely difficult to find. Add to that the scale of the milky way and well, it a hell of a thing.
There is no issue in solo mode, nor in certain group modes, but I really dislike the group mode as that is falling back on the galactic overlord as a solution. What is needed is an adjustment to the shipboard computer and garnet system that adapts to the world as a multiplay world with vastly differing play styles, particularly that which I've eluded to above, with anti-social dominators/manipulators at one end of the spectrum and civilised cooperative role-players at the other end.
The system must take account of this, and if re-buy's are considered to be a 'life' icon and you money pot the number of little ships in the 'arcade' unreal tournament death match version of the game, I'd suggest something like karma and reincarnation with values passing between lives as an incentive not to devalue the game of others, for ones own amusement; More attention to PvP as in CQC could go a long way in resolving this issue too.
Essentially, this issue with the current functionality is that some players are looking for full immersion, where as others are exploring/exploiting the edges of the game, to find the game play that they are looking for. Of course using the edges of the game in such a way is going to be game breaking for folk who engage in the more immersive play style.
I don't see a dystopian world, no more dystopian at least, than that which is just outside my window.
Elite is also very funny at times:
Stated on the line: "Our democracy relies on the large-scale transportation of information. You may need to enlists associates for this mission."
Interpreted between the lines: "Our democracy relies on the large-scale application of propaganda, if we don't get enough alcohol through then the propaganda may fail."
Is it dystopian? I think it just plain funny, certainly amusing enough to keep me interested in running missions and developing my skills along the way. I currently run most in open mode but alone, not adversed to team play but, as it is in the real world too, very good associates and friends are extremely difficult to find. Add to that the scale of the milky way and well, it a hell of a thing.
You're wrong. In the context of the game, the difference between NPCs and real people is HUGE.
- I can hire a NPC as a crew, but how do I get him to fire turrets?
- When adding a person to the crew I get additional energy pips, where is it in the NPC hired as a crew ?
- How do I add a NPC to a wing ?
I can write 1000 different conditions that are available to people and not available to NPCs. And to me this is the main problem of the game, sometimes this separation is done, sometimes not. Why is that ?
A simple example. Why is the NOTORIETY given for anyone killed in the game, why not give it only for killing a member of the FP ? Since the game clearly separates these groups, it is possible to give NOTORIETY only for killing a member of the FP, but the punishment can be made very heavy !
NPC crew can fly your ship and fire your turrets - jump in an SLF, assign them to the pilot's seat, watch your ship jump into life, and probably crash into you. As the last time I did that, they were awful and hit my SLF with my Anaconda.
Your argument hinges on a pip, that lots of people say is irrelevant. lol.
NPCs want to wing with you as much as I do
lol.As for your "1,000" conditions, go for it, name them. I bet they are completely nonsense and irrelevant, like the pips one.
End of the day, for any in-game mission progress, NPCs and humans are equally relevant targets.
Well this is what you get when there is literally nothing else for PvPers to do, like many of us have argued a million times before on these forums over the last 10 years. But whenever we suggest content for PvPers/Open players that would focus combat orientated players at more meaningful activities, we get met with "yOu jUsT wAnT mOrE vIcTiMs yOu sOcIoPaTh!!" by people who do not understand game design.
Remember, no PvP outlet = ganking... As it's the most reliable form of PvP available.
Remember, no PvP outlet = ganking... As it's the most reliable form of PvP available.
Maybe, but a whole bunch would still gank, just because they can. In the beginning I think Fdev thought Cqc would take care of that but it never worked out that way. I doubt pp2.0 will change it either, but we shall all see soon enough
CQC just doesn't scratch the PvP itch with its minimal viable product implementation.. It could have been better had FDEV gone down a more 'Arena Commander' route with it (more varied game options and ship choices). But they were never interested and abandoned it. What a shame.
Yeah, everyone keeps busting out the strawman of "you just don't play cqc because you don't want an equal fight"
Like, a lot of the big-name gankers have equal fights all the time out in places like the puppis sector rocks and san tu, there's events like plagoween where they all hop off in a carrier into the black and kill each other in deep space (hence the inara security report sometimes showing hundreds of kills happening off in some seemingly random system 3000ly out of the bubble) - there's a ton of organised and arranged events like that and they exist despite the complete lack of support from the devs. The reason they don't play CQC is nothing to do with "equal opponents".
It's been a while since we had an opposed war CG. Those things are reliably absolute bloodbaths and they're all people who came specifically looking for a fight. Something like that, something to focus people on the same place so they can find each other without resorting to out-of-game means, that's what people are asking for.
It isn't. Turrets are not controlled by the NPC. That's easy to prove.
And why only turrets? Where are the extra pips? They're clearly visible.
And why do you think that 2 extra points in pvp are meaningless and irrelevant ? Have you never fought in PvP?
But @Screemonster just mentioned that there's a ton of organised and arranged PvP events...
Deleted member 305477
D
I've a massive respect for the PvP'ers, their dedication and skill, they are to my mind some of the best pilots in the game. Gladiators, warriors, and they do not get the respect that they deserve from the game. Not all of them respect the art that they practice, the game or other people, but this is far from being all of them.
I could not agree more with you, and this is FDev cutting off their own nose despite their face. PvP via CQC could have been a massive part of the game, and a massive part of power play too. Training and orienting pilots, giving a testing ground for engineering and new tech, new flight dynamics.
It could be an entire game in and of itself, but the results of that games evolution would have been wasted if not injected back into elite.
Stating that PvP = ganking is like stating that martial arts training installs a lack of discipline, it's just not true.
Misguided PvP leads to some ganking, and this is far from being all cases. There is I suspect a massive element of, 'lead by example' involved, when some of the most established players do it, then the teaching that it is sport for the powerful gets passed on to new recruits, and so it spreads. There are others whos' excellent example is to not engage in it.
CQC has nothing at all to do with PvP as it stands, not including all of the in game ships and the ability to use your engineered ships was a massive mistake. An enormous part of the PvP skill set evolves around using the lead reticle to predict your opponent's moments, you don't even have weapons with any flight time in CQC, so no reticle, and the inclusion of dynamics such as power up bonuses that do not exist in game at all. It is a mini game that has nothing to do with elite dangerous's actual game play at all. Which is a real shame, it could have been so much more.
Gankers gank because they have lead lives that lead them to believe that it is appropriate behaviour in the given environment, you can't even blame FDev for that, PvP training is a way to reduce it though, as highly skilled pilots lead by example. This could have also been a massive aspect of power play, as the best faction leaders in game would have a place in which they could recruit some of the most skilled combat pilots.
It really is a shame, I believe that it still could be brought back from the farcical state in which it now resides, if there was willing.
Organised and arranged outside the game, if you're not in one of those ingroups or those guys aren't online right now, that's when boredom strikes and the trigger finger starts itching. There isn't really a way to find other people besides looking up the inara traffic/security reports and seeing where people are (or just hitting up ol' reliables like deciat and shin)
Who mentioned PvP?
I never mentioned PvP, your post I quoted never mentioned PvP?
So you're moving the goalposts because you lost. Got ya.
Why are you accusing me personally? Is this a specific attack on me?
Proof of my wrongness will be that you put your NPC (from the team) in the SRV and will see from the ship as he rides below.