Will ED be too safe

[Ottomic]

Considering how Elite's MP is planned, I'd say the only people who should be concerned about it are those who would like to make profit at the expense and abuse of other players that do not wish to have their money and game experience put in jeopardy. Having to act like a normal, reasonable person in an online game about spaceships! I can see the culture shock among certain communities of like-minded individuals.

That won't mean, however, that their tears will be less delicious to me.

 

[DraigUK]

Considering how Elite's MP is planned, I'd say the only people who should be concerned about it are those who would like to make profit at the expense and abuse of other players that do not wish to have their money and game experience put in jeopardy. Having to act like a normal, reasonable person in an online game about spaceships! I can see the culture shock among certain communities of like-minded individuals.

That won't mean, however, that their tears will be less delicious to me.

Without jeopardy there is no game experience only grind and boredom.

"Make profit at the expense and abuse(!?!) of other players..."

Do you mean pirates?

As I replied at length to you earlier, what you need to play in order to avoid all that is already there for you, it's called single player.

 

[Commandr Sam]

If you read this thread yes ED will be dumbed down so that there is no risk at all and lasers will fire hugs.

Fortunately FD are not listening to this and ED will still have enough pvp risk to make the game entertaining.

 

[Commander Edison]

I think judging the tone of the game based on what's in right now is very disingenuous.

The crime and punishment system isn't implemented at all, and station defences are only rudimentary. Asking for special protections and new game modes (not to mention labelling legitimate players as griefers) is extremely premature.

Lets wait and see how the whole package works before we declare Elite the next EvE Online, and wail about griefers ruining our game before it's even come out.

This is bang on.

If the plans for law and order in the DDF are implemented as planned, it should allow space for all the playstyles people want. Nice secure systems for trading in with plenty of the 5-0 tearing around after pirates, and plenty of anarchy systems for the PvP enthusiasts to go all Thunderdome in.

Give the devs ideas a chance to work.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Without jeopardy there is no game experience only grind and boredom.

"Make profit at the expense and abuse(!?!) of other players..."

Do you mean pirates?

As I replied at length to you earlier, what you need to play in order to avoid all that is already there for you, it's called single player.

In your opinion, of course. Other opinions may vary.

Pirates should not abuse - at least, not if they want to improve their pirate rating.

You seem to have forgotten private groups - ideally suited for like-minded players to group up and play the game without interference from others.

 

[Maruun]

Griefer: Player attacking other player with high advantage and no gain in attacking the other player, just for their own fun of it.

Pirates: Attacking other player in hope for profit in attacking lawfull players, to get the cargo in their hold, no cargo no reason for attack.

Bounty Hunter: Attacking other players for their bounty that comes from the destruction, no bounty no reason for attack.

I hope the criminal system gets reasonable, to enhance cases of "Pirates/Bounty Hunter" and reducing griefer behaviour.

In the end we can only see how things will go when super cruise is implemented fully. So player can interdict other players, because right now there isnt much for potential pirates to do. Beside sitting near a station for a trader to come.

I would rather play with 100 pirates then with one griefer...with a pirate you could reason with. A griefer there is no point in reasoning.

I know talking about that "possible" issue may be strange...but underestimate it would be worse

 

[Penthux]

I believe a lot of people say "griefers" and instead they mean "People that will shoot me when I don't want them to shoot me". There will be NPC that will shoot you when you don't want to be shot, how's it any different? Skill level?

The difference is that a human player has a choice and when the decision is made to attack it's taken very personally indeed by the victim. Rational reason and common sense play no part. Only blame and bitterness ensue from the offended party.

NPCs don't matter. They only do what they are programmed to do. They do not have a choice. Most people accept being attacked by NPCs as acceptable where being attacked by human players is not.

I don't agree that griefing should be frowned upon in a game where piracy is encouraged. That just makes no sense, and defies all logic, and I'm not so ignorant or juvenile to try to equate, or justify, that line of thought.

 

[Colonel Kenney]

Griefer: Player attacking other player with high advantage and no gain in attacking the other player, just for their own fun of it.

Pirates: Attacking other player in hope for profit in attacking lawfull players, to get the cargo in their hold, no cargo no reason for attack.

Bounty Hunter: Attacking other players for their bounty that comes from the destruction, no bounty no reason for attack.

I hope the criminal system gets reasonable, to enhance cases of "Pirates/Bounty Hunter" and reducing griefer behaviour.

In the end we can only see how things will go when super cruise is implemented fully. So player can interdict other players, because right now there isnt much for potential pirates to do. Beside sitting near a station for a trader to come.

I would rather play with 100 pirates then with one griefer...with a pirate you could reason with. A griefer there is no point in reasoning.

I know talking about that "possible" issue may be strange...but underestimate it would be worse

You forgot about this kind...

 

[baskila]

Considering how Elite's MP is planned, I'd say the only people who should be concerned about it are those who would like to make profit at the expense and abuse of other players that do not wish to have their money and game experience put in jeopardy. Having to act like a normal, reasonable person in an online game about spaceships! I can see the culture shock among certain communities of like-minded individuals.

That won't mean, however, that their tears will be less delicious to me.

Couldn't agree more. +1

 

[prasak]

I would love to participate in this beta but the theme of your title sums it up for me.

Deep concerns about the p2p networking component of the game.

Deep concerns about the "groups" mechanism and exploits.

Until I see concrete examples of these systems once finalized and the myriad of cause and effect issues that will come about I must remain a pessimistic spectator.

A certain group of supporters seem to think that most will play in the original spirit of elite and those that don't or this group is not comfortable with will be tidily tucked away in the closet and forgotten about.

It seems that someone is grossly underestimating the ingenuity of modern min/max types in the gamer culture and they are not going to play happy, happy, joy, joy like some of the people seem to think here.

Well, from your post, I have a feeling, that you only want to grief on the people who are not intersted in it, but being put into the same basket with the ones like you is a big problem for you, possibly because you may lose here and there. Thats the spirit.

 

[Vikinger]

Whit the huge space we will get in this game and the small amount of players that can be on same instance I think its gona be very rare to stumble upon another player that is at same planet or area than your self.
I would be surprised to se another player and first thing I would do is to try and get contact and share information, rather than start shooting.
Just because you can kill other players it does not mean you should do it as soon you se one.

So I think ED will be a safe place due to the large space and the small amount of players in the instance. And if trigger happy McScumbag finds you, you have allways options to run away.

Later on when the game have been out for a while and players have got a good amount of ships and money I think they want something more. And my guess is that when that time comes people will gather up and have pvp battles

 

[gazzareth]

To be fair, other than docking accidents and going to feudal / anarchy systems Elite was pretty safe, although you could always find trouble if you wanted it !

G

 

[Fromhell]

After listening to interviews with DB and reading the forums I'm a bit concerned that the measures taken to instance griefers away from others will take the danger and surprise and frustration out of the game. I personally believe that you feel a greater sense of reward through toil and hardship. If things are easy then then what is the point. It doesn't make you strive to do better next time.

I for one imagine a scene where a griefer is known to be killing in a particular region. A group of players decides to ambush him by having one person in the group bait him to jump through his supercruise bubble...to emerge into space where the baiter's friends are ready to ambush. This would teach him/her a lesson but also be a reward and a very real element to the game of working as a team.

What are your thoughts on this ?

I've written off multiplayer because of this and that is why I will simply stick with single player.

optional multiplayer danger is danger I can and will turn off due to path of least resistance.
why take any risk if safemode is just a button push away and taking more risk is not rewarded.
Another multiplayer concept nerfed because of the mythical Griefercabra, waiting behind every asteroid in 400 billion star systems

 

[Robert Maynard]

I don't agree that griefing should be frowned upon in a game where piracy is encouraged. That just makes no sense, and defies all logic, and I'm not so ignorant or juvenile to try to equate, or justify, that line of thought.

Interesting - so all other players should be fine with that then?

 

[Ottomic]

Without jeopardy there is no game experience only grind and boredom.

"Make profit at the expense and abuse(!?!) of other players..."

Do you mean pirates?

As I replied at length to you earlier, what you need to play in order to avoid all that is already there for you, it's called single player.

Just for the record, I'd like to say I haven't decided on a game mode, and that's a decision I will make when the full game is released. If I can play in peace in full multiplayer (and with the gajillion systems we will have where *every* human alive in the world could have a system for themselves, it's more than likely), then it's the mode I'll choose. But I will have the option to just brush "pirates" as you call it, aside, if I feel like it. And so will the rest of players that so choose it. Of one thing I'm sure, those pirates will likely see a consequence to their playstyle unlike those in full PvP games such as some of the ones available right now. Also I could debate how "piracy" does not necessarily involve PvP, but I'm sure it's something that doesn't need further explanation.

I thank you for taking the time in assisting with the game mode best suited for me, but it's kind of a stretch to make these kinds of statements at this point. And of course, that will ultimately come down to my personal choice. In any case, "multiplayer" has never been a synonym of "PvP", especially "non-consensual PvP", that's for sure.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

NPCs don't matter. They only do what they are programmed to do. They do not have a choice. Most people accept being attacked by NPCs as acceptable where being attacked by human players is not.

Some, sure. Most? I doubt it. However, being attacked by a PC just for being a PC is a real problem for many, including me. There is quite a big camp that says attacks made for good in-game reasons are perfectly fine: being attacked for out-of-game reasons, like being a PC is not fine.

I don't agree that griefing should be frowned upon in a game where piracy is encouraged. That just makes no sense, and defies all logic, and I'm not so ignorant or juvenile to try to equate, or justify, that line of thought.

Sure sounds pretty ignorant to me. Griefing should be frowned on in all games.

However, piracy is not griefing. Being attacked by the same pirate multiple times, where there is an in-game reason, is not griefing either: it is the player that is being attacked being stupid for putting himself there multiple times. Stupidity should be costly.

 

[Jason S]

After listening to interviews with DB and reading the forums I'm a bit concerned that the measures taken to instance griefers away from others will take the danger and surprise and frustration out of the game. I personally believe that you feel a greater sense of reward through toil and hardship. If things are easy then then what is the point. It doesn't make you strive to do better next time.

I for one imagine a scene where a griefer is known to be killing in a particular region. A group of players decides to ambush him by having one person in the group bait him to jump through his supercruise bubble...to emerge into space where the baiter's friends are ready to ambush. This would teach him/her a lesson but also be a reward and a very real element to the game of working as a team.

What are your thoughts on this ?

Elite is about an experience and it is DB's vision and I for one am happy the way he is taking it.

 

[Stachel]

I can't be the only one who thought of this:

Spoiler

 

[Maruun]

You forgot about this kind...

Why so serious?

 

[Chrome]

After listening to interviews with DB and reading the forums I'm a bit concerned that the measures taken to instance griefers away from others will take the danger and surprise and frustration out of the game. I personally believe that you feel a greater sense of reward through toil and hardship. If things are easy then then what is the point. It doesn't make you strive to do better next time.

I for one imagine a scene where a griefer is known to be killing in a particular region. A group of players decides to ambush him by having one person in the group bait him to jump through his supercruise bubble...to emerge into space where the baiter's friends are ready to ambush. This would teach him/her a lesson but also be a reward and a very real element to the game of working as a team.

What are your thoughts on this ?

A fair challenge is good.

A griefer out just to ruin someone else's day isn't.

I've played EVE for 11 years now and trust me, that kind of stuff would not fit in Elite.