Will networking issues ever be fixed?

Having played a lot of ED over the past few year's I've barely touched it this year.
Why? I'm one of those people who play ED for the PvP aspect and the current state of the game makes PvP unenjoyable.
Instancing, de-sync between players and the years of fighter lag are issues that weren't around, or at least weren't as bad a few years ago.
Just yesterday I couldn't get into the same supercruise instance as my wingmates, they were just wing signals
The de-sync issue I think is the worst, having had a LOT of Corvette duels and re-watched fights from both players perspectives it's clear that what both players are seeing doesn't correspond with what's actually happening.
The perfect example is when two players are T-boning each other, both players screens show a ship at 90° stuck on their nose that's shooting back.
I don't know if I'm explaining this well, I'm trying to be brief..
Another example is a recent Corvette duel I had where I had 5x fixed beam lasers, one person was spectating and asked why I was missing so much.
I wasn't missing but on the spectators screen and my opponents it looked like I was never hitting him, except for the constant shield flicker.
Sticking with the Corvette theme and other duels I've had, de-sync makes SCB's, even rapid charge difficult to use.
Example being on my screen I've just boosted past my opponent, kept 200m ish away with no possible way for him to turn and cancel my SCB's and then get railgunned from a ship that's not even looking at me.
Opponents screen however shows me boosting past at 500-600m and never leaving his view.
Did I mention shadow rams? It's an all too common occurrence that it looks like you've passed somebody with hundreds of meters to spare and on your opponents screen it was a head-on collision.
Interestingly many rams only make one person spin out, especially for shadow rams.
Fighter Lag.
Specially NPC controlled fighters, player controlled fighters (via multicrew) cause no issues.
I think it's been over 2 years since I've used a npc fighter in pvp, nobody who takes PvP seriously has either.
Game breaking describes it well, after 30 secs-1 min the owner of the npc fighter will start rubber-banding and virtually teleport randomly here and there with NO negative effect on them.
The longer an npc fighter is alive the worse the de-sync and rubber-banding becomes, should the fighter die there's an instant improvement.
Back when fighter lag was becoming an issue (OVER 2 YEARS AGO) I had a Corvette duel against someone with a fighter out, I was also in a party with him.
His fighter had been out for a few minutes, seemed ok until he started using SCB's in front of me and despite hitting them with feedback cascade instantly nothing happened.
Huh? I asked and he reported that he'd used those SCB's 15 seconds ago on a previous pass..
To wrap this up I do need to disclaim I'm from NZ with mediocre internet, however all these issues above have gone from being an occasional thing to the new normal.
I'm also not the only person who encounters these problems, virtually everyone who PvP's on Xbox will have their own examples.
Please feel free to comment and leave your examples below, hopefully if enough people keep making noise about this Fdev might start taking it seriously.
It wasn't brief but these are the reasons I can't be bothered with ED currently.
 
I understand your issues, but
...PvP's on Xbox...
and
...Fdev might start taking it seriously...
have little enough to do with each other. FDev can't change the way the XBoxes talk to each other - that's entirely up to Microsoft. So you really should voice your complaints to them.

The other thing is, of course, that you can see the same issue on other platforms, also on PC. And that's an issue that goes right down to FD's business model. Networking in ED had to be cheap (since FD's business model does not invoke monthly payments), so it's peer-to-peer, with instancing servers trying to match up players. If you want to change that, you will have to start with exactly that business model (and all the people who backed that business model will become severely cross at you), then rewrite ED's networking part from the ground up (which would probably amount to rewrite all of ED except for the visuals from the ground up).

If this is a reason (or the reason) for you not playing ED, then you won't play ED for the foreseeable future. Because that part isn't going to change any time soon.

And btw., we had a lovely multiplayer (PC) session last evening. Filming and a few rebuys (none of them shooting related) over a beautiful (albeit a bit too pink for my taste) high g world. Something like 5 Europeans and one American. Had to wing in the American (everyone else dropped into the same instance just fine), but once we were all in the same instance, no problems even with high speed ship collisions or lithobraking.
 
FDev can't change the way the XBoxes talk to each other

Yes they can. Just like with a PC, networking is a library that the game uses. An Xbox is just a PC with a specific hardware config and different UI.

I'm US west coast with good internet. And I have constant instancing and lag issues in cooperative PvE. I've avoided PvP because of these game-breaking network issues. And I won't be buying any game expansions (a.k.a. odyssey) until the base game works right.
 
FDev can't change the way the XBoxes talk to each other - that's entirely up to Microsoft.

They do.. XBoxes in ED talk exactly like PC's do - and it depends solely on FD and their way to design networking for ED.
And to be clear - they designed the networking to be as cheap as possible by using as little FDev payed resources as possible
Otherwise, we'd all be paying subs
 
I'm not avoiding upnp, my infrastructure doesn't support it. I had no choice, from that moment I stopped having issues.

In my case it had everything to do with my network issues as the firewall couldn't issue open ports on the fly.

Servers would try and mesh your traffic anothef way and would time out
 
Ashnak, yes PvP and Xbox is a minority of the playerbase but roughly 2 years ago fighter lag, shadow rams etc were a rarity.
I ran a Corvette 1v1 tournament last year with 20 something entries, it's almost pointless running it again this year because it'll be decided by something other than skill+build.
 
The Lag is not an Xbox Exclusive. It can be pretty bad on any platform depending on who you instance with, how crowded a system is, how many FC are present, among other things. I don't think it will be fixed. Who knows, Odyssey might change things, maybe, prolly not though. Even considering that any shooter aspects will be a total non starter the way the network is now.
 
As ebbrell said, it's possible that port forwarding can resolve these kinds issues:
 
Same issues on PS4 one moment in a wing of 3 then one of us becomes unknown

Im already paying a "Sub" via Sony but for a perfect instancing with friends and squadron Id be happy to pay the equivelant to a Netflix subscription I sure use ED more than netfilix by a factor of ten :giggle:
 
It's not really FDevs issue, I think.

On Xbox, sure, you can use EDs main port to Port Forward. But that's only half the issue, you'd also need to use all of Microsoft's Xbox ports.

The reason is simple: Unlike on PC, Xbox communicates to other Xbox's using Microsoft's servers...

Overly simplified:

PC -> ISP -> FDev -> ISP -> PC

but Xbox

Xbox -> ISP -> Microsoft -> FDev -> Microsoft -> ISP -> Xbox

This mapping is horrifically oversimplified and isn't "exactly" accurate to how it actually works, but the information does need to pass through the extra barrier before it makes it to your end on Xbox.

If there are stability issues, than it's either your router, the ISP, Microsoft servers or FDev servers.

Easy way to figure it out: Check recent PC chatter for Elite, if they aren't having issues, than it's probably Microsoft. If that's not it? Than maybe your ISP.

The best advice I have is try Port Forwarding your connection, and using hardwire.

Elites Port:
UDP 5100 - 5200

Xbox Ports:
UDP 88
TCP/UDP 3074
TCP/UDP 53
TCP 80
UDP 500
UDP 3544
UDP 4500

On your Xbox, make sure it's using port 3074, NOT an alternate port.

This should resolve many issues. I have a 100 mbps connection through Spectrum ISP, all ports forwarded on a 5G wifi router. And I only rarely have issues in Private Groups. Open is flawless for me, as is Solo.

If I DO have issues, it's usually Microsofts fault. Sometimes Spectrum has a hiccup.

Helpful Links:
Frontier Help: Networking
Xbox Support: Portforwarding
YouTube: How Multiplayer Works
Portforward
 
Cmdr Freakster, thanks for the advice.
I had just recently fowarded the Xbox ports which gave a slight improvement on latency.
I've just opened 5100-5200 to the Xbox and I'll try Elite again this weekend.
However it's not just a problem for me, most of the guys who pvp get all the problems above, especially instancing and shadow ramming.
I would suggest it's something to do with the peer to peer hosting protocols, remember the terrible lag and frame in a station instance earlier this year? That was because every player in the instance was being primed to take over hosting should the current host dc.
Other ships rubber banding used to occasionally happen, Sometimes I would be that ship but now there's virtually none(except for npc fighters).
My next suggestion is that when that rubber banding issue was patched it's somehow made the peer to peer connection slower and hence the de-sync problem.
I'm not an especially tech minded person, but it used to work and now it don't, it's kinda killing the game for the already small Xbox pvp playerbase.
 
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It's not really FDevs issue, I think.

On Xbox, sure, you can use EDs main port to Port Forward. But that's only half the issue, you'd also need to use all of Microsoft's Xbox ports.

The reason is simple: Unlike on PC, Xbox communicates to other Xbox's using Microsoft's servers...

Overly simplified:

PC -> ISP -> FDev -> ISP -> PC

but Xbox

Xbox -> ISP -> Microsoft -> FDev -> Microsoft -> ISP -> Xbox

This mapping is horrifically oversimplified and isn't "exactly" accurate to how it actually works, but the information does need to pass through the extra barrier before it makes it to your end on Xbox.

If there are stability issues, than it's either your router, the ISP, Microsoft servers or FDev servers.

Easy way to figure it out: Check recent PC chatter for Elite, if they aren't having issues, than it's probably Microsoft. If that's not it? Than maybe your ISP.

The best advice I have is try Port Forwarding your connection, and using hardwire.

Elites Port:
UDP 5100 - 5200

Xbox Ports:
UDP 88
TCP/UDP 3074
TCP/UDP 53
TCP 80
UDP 500
UDP 3544
UDP 4500

On your Xbox, make sure it's using port 3074, NOT an alternate port.

This should resolve many issues. I have a 100 mbps connection through Spectrum ISP, all ports forwarded on a 5G wifi router. And I only rarely have issues in Private Groups. Open is flawless for me, as is Solo.

If I DO have issues, it's usually Microsofts fault. Sometimes Spectrum has a hiccup.

Helpful Links:
Frontier Help: Networking
Xbox Support: Portforwarding
YouTube: How Multiplayer Works
Portforward
I also didn't know UDP 5100:5200 had to be open on Xbox. I forwarded all the recommended ports and still get bad lag at times. I'll add that port range and I hope it works. Sometimes the lag is just unbearable.
 
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