I really hope the winter dlc is an animal pack, even my builder desires would be salty with yet another scenery pack.
Including mountain species but not going much beyond the first 100 I would say:So, I looked at the Metawishlist for "colder climate" animals. Only found the Walrus, all other species don't seem to fit in a winter-y vibe pack.
Tanuki is not so popular as it seems. It is on place 70 with 45 votes. It has some fans of the more active Forum users as it is often mentioned in threads but in general popularity seems not very high.Personally I am not the biggest fan of the kiwi but I know it would please a lot of people, I think they deserve it because the twilight pack was very attuned to my preferences. I thought the honey creeper was very unique, and that we need a small cat. And tanuki is very popular
To be honest I never even heard of the tanuki until last month after so many people were talking about it for the nocturnal packTanuki is not so popular as it seems. It is on place 70 with 45 votes. It has some fans of the more active Forum users as it is often mentioned in threads but in general popularity seems not very high.
And with another canine now confirmed, I bet it would be less of a priority to someTanuki is not so popular as it seems. It is on place 70 with 45 votes. It has some fans of the more active Forum users as it is often mentioned in threads but in general popularity seems not very high.
Quite some animals I love there among them. But I have a hard time making a pack out of it that would attrack the average PZ player. Obviously I want the Tanuki very much, but so close to the racoon that would confuse some people.Including mountain species but not going much beyond the first 100 I would say:
- Wolverine
- Walrus
- Musk ox
- Takin
- Markhor
- Red deer
- Spectacled bear
- Saiga
- Gelada
- Sea otter
- Wild boar
- North American black bear
- Elk/Wapiti
- Pallas cat
- Raccoon dog
- Golden snub-nosed monkey
- Rock hopper penguin
- Bighorn sheep
- Mountain goat
- Leopard seal
- Yak
- Coyote
- Wisent
- Yellow-throated marten
- Chamois
- Japanese serow
I had to look it up....I actually know them (after seeing a picture of it) as racoon dogsTo be honest I never even heard of the tanuki until last month after so many people were talking about it for the nocturnal pack
That's exactly what I've been saying for a long time, completely agree.You've put this so much more eloquently than what I would have said.
When I say an all bird pack is unlikely from Frontier, I mean it for other groupings as well. It's not just about mammals vs birds, or mammals vs reptiles etc. I don't think an all feline pack would work. Or an all primate pack. Or an all reptile pack. Or an all ungulate pack. Or an all canine pack. Or a rodent pack. Or a pack full of lemurs.
There was always a mix of animals in packs - Wetlands has a capybara (a rodent and a mammal), and a caiman (reptile), and a the wild buffalo (bovine and mammal), and the red crowned crane (bird) etc. Conservation pack has the schimitar oryx (bovine and mammal) and the siamang (primate and mammal). Yes, they are all mammals, but some are primates, others are rodents, and all the other orders and families they belong too. They are distinct enough despite belonging to the same class.
I also think we're forgetting one thing - there are others who play the game and see a horse, a monkey, a cat, and an antelope in a pack and think "Neat! That's different enough for me to buy this pack!" If you see 8 cats in a pack, and you don't like or care about cats...the likely hood of you buying the cat pack is probably not that high. I'd buy the cat pack in a hearbeat, but I'm not the only one playing Planet Zoo. A mix of animals is always better in my opinion.
I think it could work for some kind of "species packs"... maybe when they continue the support until at least 2024.........(and then for example as animal packs with only 5 animals for maybe 5,99€/$/£You've put this so much more eloquently than what I would have said.
When I say an all bird pack is unlikely from Frontier, I mean it for other groupings as well. It's not just about mammals vs birds, or mammals vs reptiles etc. I don't think an all feline pack would work. Or an all primate pack. Or an all reptile pack. Or an all ungulate pack. Or an all canine pack. Or a rodent pack. Or a pack full of lemurs.
There was always a mix of animals in packs - Wetlands has a capybara (a rodent and a mammal), and a caiman (reptile), and a the wild buffalo (bovine and mammal), and the red crowned crane (bird) etc. Conservation pack has the schimitar oryx (bovine and mammal) and the siamang (primate and mammal). Yes, they are all mammals, but some are primates, others are rodents, and all the other orders and families they belong too. They are distinct enough despite belonging to the same class.
I also think we're forgetting one thing - there are others who play the game and see a horse, a monkey, a cat, and an antelope in a pack and think "Neat! That's different enough for me to buy this pack!" If you see 8 cats in a pack, and you don't like or care about cats...the likely hood of you buying the cat pack is probably not that high. I'd buy the cat pack in a hearbeat, but I'm not the only one playing Planet Zoo. A mix of animals is always better in my opinion.
My Mountain/Cold Climate pack would be:Including mountain species but not going much beyond the first 100 I would say:
- Wolverine
- Walrus
- Musk ox
- Takin
- Markhor
- Red deer
- Spectacled bear
- Saiga
- Gelada
- Sea otter
- Wild boar
- North American black bear
- Elk/Wapiti
- Pallas cat
- Raccoon dog
- Golden snub-nosed monkey
- Rock hopper penguin
- Bighorn sheep
- Mountain goat
- Leopard seal
- Yak
- Coyote
- Wisent
- Yellow-throated marten
- Chamois
- Japanese serow
Scientifically you are right, there is no doubt. There are birds that fly and others that do not fly, birds that live and nest near the sea, others in the mountains, some eat carrion, others fish, other seeds and fruits, some have totally different behaviors and other behaviors.Families and orders are not just for mammals. All classes have does, and here you seem to choose to ignore that birds and reptiles are also classes to make mammals appear more diverse. This is exactly why I say birds should be compared to mammals, not to families and orders within mammals.
Caiman: reptile (class) AND crocodilian (order). Red Crowned Crane (bird) AND crane (family). See the same thing can be done with those.
Mammals consist of 27 orders. Birds of 41 orders (https://www.birdfamiliesoftheworld.com/orders/).
Mammals 5000+ species, Birds 10.000+ Species. This is why I'm saying that birds are even more diverse than mammals.
That the general audience know more about mammals and they are more popular, I agree with. And mammals should be and very much have been the priority of this game.
But that doesn't mean a single bird pack is a bad idea. I'm sure a lot of people will be able to tell the difference between a pelican, an emu, and a turkey even though they can't put a name like cat or dog on top of them to tell them apart. People might even be positively surprised by how diverse such a pack could be.
I don't want this to be a war between bird and mammal people, I see no reason for that. Especially since I have a more or less equal interest in both groups.
I just want people to stop treating birds as lower-ranking animals with less diversity than mammals. It makes no sense.
While birds might not often be the reason people go to the zoo in the first place, and they might not take up as much space as mammals, they are still at least as important in a modern zoo as mammals are, which is why we need a decent amount in Planet Zoo. Like it or not.
The wetlands pack is among the most diverse packs we have seen having a bird, a reptile, and mammals of various orders as well as an amphibian in the exhibit.But the point is this, trying to be as simple as possible: consider equally diversified and with the same possibility of covering as much as possible the different tastes of people a DLC with [Macaw, Toucan, Eagle, Owl, Pelican] or a DLC with [ Capybara, Platypus, Otter, Crane, Caiman]?
Genetically perhaps, but visuals count too, and birds tend to look very similar, particularly in the body plan...But try to compare the lineup you made to the SEA pack instead, the Arctic pack, the Conservation Pack, the Europe Pack or the new Twilight pack. Then this [Macaw, Toucan, Eagle, Owl, Pelican] lineup is more or equally diverse yes.
Which is why we might need some more colorful animals.but visuals count too
This is the only way I’d be ok with some birds in exhibit boxes. Really small species, like finches, that often flock together in large groups I can more easily understand needing to be on a looped set of animations and predefined to a box. Large, less social flying bird species as exhibit box species would be an absolute NO for me though. I would not purchase a pack that has parrots and eagles being only “glorified” exhibit species. Medium-to-large flying bird species can be quite terrestrial, especially in captivity, and there’s no reason that they shouldn’t make use of the one-of-a-kind climbing system Frontier already has in place in PZ. Additionally, there’s no fun in having birds if a player can’t build custom enclosures for them, imo. Irl, flying bird habitats in zoos can look vastly different and make use of various materials and sizing. On top of this, most aviaries are mixed-species, with a variety of different animal species living together in them. This is something that isn’t possible with PZ’s exhibit system atm.I don't know if I would like bigger birds being "exhibit" animals (because the new exhibit is still quite small for birds like vultures or eagles).
I would split it into smaller birds for exhibit/aviaries and the ones for habitat-aviaries (if we ever get them):
Exhibit:
- Zebra finch
- Red-crowned parakeet
- Sociable weaver
- Cockatiel
- Budgerigar
- Little owl
- Barn owl
- Common kingfisher
Habitat:
- Bald eagle
- Golden eagle
- White-tailed eagle
- Kea
- Common raven
- Southern yellow-billed hornbill
- Red-and-green macaw
- Hyacinth macaw
Exactly we need both versions to suit builders who value realistic avaries and of course the prefab exhibits for those people who don't have the skillsThis is the only way I’d be ok with some birds in exhibit boxes. Really small species, like finches, that often flock together in large groups I can more easily understand needing to be on a looped set of animations and predefined to a box. Large, less social flying bird species as exhibit box species would be an absolute NO for me though. I would not purchase a pack that has parrots and eagles being only “glorified” exhibit species. Medium-to-large flying bird species can be quite terrestrial, especially in captivity, and there’s no reason that they shouldn’t make use of the one-of-a-kind climbing system Frontier already has in place in PZ. Additionally, there’s no fun in having birds if a player can’t build custom enclosures for them, imo. Irl, flying bird habitats in zoos can look vastly different and make use of various materials and sizing. On top of this, most aviaries are mixed-species, with a variety of different animal species living together in them. This is something that isn’t possible with PZ’s exhibit system atm.
View attachment 326681
Please excuse how blurry the pic is, but it’s an amazing example of the creative opportunities that real world zoos achieve with their aviaries. The habitat shown is the Antewarp Zoo Cape Buffalo Aviary, home to Cape Buffalo and a selection of larger flying bird species, including vultures, herons, storks, hornbills, and ibises. Things like this should be possible in a game that focuses so much of customization and “piece-by-piece” building.
As I have already replied to someone before, the Arctic and Twilight DLCs are the ones with the least variations and with the most similar animals.The wetlands pack is among the most diverse packs we have seen having a bird, a reptile, and mammals of various orders as well as an amphibian in the exhibit.
But the packs are rarely this diverse, if they were we might not be lacking so much when it comes to birds.
But try to compare the lineup you made to the SEA pack instead, the Arctic pack, the Conservation Pack, the Europe Pack or the new Twilight pack. Then this [Macaw, Toucan, Eagle, Owl, Pelican] lineup is more or equally diverse yes.
I would (it I were in a position to decide that.....) take this approach for aviaries/exhibits for small birds:This is the only way I’d be ok with some birds in exhibit boxes. Really small species, like finches, that often flock together in large groups I can more easily understand needing to be on a looped set of animations and predefined to a box. Large, less social flying bird species as exhibit box species would be an absolute NO for me though. I would not purchase a pack that has parrots and eagles being only “glorified” exhibit species. Medium-to-large flying bird species can be quite terrestrial, especially in captivity, and there’s no reason that they shouldn’t make use of the one-of-a-kind climbing system Frontier already has in place in PZ. Additionally, there’s no fun in having birds if a player can’t build custom enclosures for them, imo. Irl, flying bird habitats in zoos can look vastly different and make use of various materials and sizing. On top of this, most aviaries are mixed-species, with a variety of different animal species living together in them. This is something that isn’t possible with PZ’s exhibit system atm.
View attachment 326681
Please excuse how blurry the pic is, but it’s an amazing example of the creative opportunities that real world zoos achieve with their aviaries. The habitat shown is the Antewarp Zoo Cape Buffalo Aviary, home to Cape Buffalo and a selection of larger flying bird species, including vultures, herons, storks, hornbills, and ibises. Things like this should be possible in a game that focuses so much of customization and “piece-by-piece” building.