Winter DLC Speculation

[Captain Callum]

I really hope the winter dlc is an animal pack, even my builder desires would be salty with yet another scenery pack.

 

[markun]

So, I looked at the Metawishlist for "colder climate" animals. Only found the Walrus, all other species don't seem to fit in a winter-y vibe pack.

Including mountain species but not going much beyond the first 100 I would say:

• Wolverine
• Walrus
• Musk ox
• Takin
• Markhor
• Red deer
• Spectacled bear
• Saiga
• Gelada
• Sea otter
• Wild boar
• North American black bear
• Elk/Wapiti
• Pallas cat
• Raccoon dog
• Golden snub-nosed monkey
• Rock hopper penguin
• Bighorn sheep
• Mountain goat
• Leopard seal
• Yak
• Coyote
• Wisent
• Yellow-throated marten
• Chamois
• Japanese serow

 

[becks474]

Personally I am not the biggest fan of the kiwi but I know it would please a lot of people, I think they deserve it because the twilight pack was very attuned to my preferences. I thought the honey creeper was very unique, and that we need a small cat. And tanuki is very popular

Tanuki is not so popular as it seems. It is on place 70 with 45 votes. It has some fans of the more active Forum users as it is often mentioned in threads but in general popularity seems not very high.

 

[Captain Callum]

Tanuki is not so popular as it seems. It is on place 70 with 45 votes. It has some fans of the more active Forum users as it is often mentioned in threads but in general popularity seems not very high.

To be honest I never even heard of the tanuki until last month after so many people were talking about it for the nocturnal pack

 

[jcp011c]

@markun oooh the Gelada! That's a good pick. Add that to the Wolverine, Spectacled Bear, and Markhor/Bighorn Sheep/Mountain Goat/Chamois/Red Deer and it's a good pick, very diverse from the rest in the pack.

 

[SalamAnders]

Tanuki is not so popular as it seems. It is on place 70 with 45 votes. It has some fans of the more active Forum users as it is often mentioned in threads but in general popularity seems not very high.

And with another canine now confirmed, I bet it would be less of a priority to some

 

[Swjosdotschka]

Including mountain species but not going much beyond the first 100 I would say:

• Wolverine
• Walrus
• Musk ox
• Takin
• Markhor
• Red deer
• Spectacled bear
• Saiga
• Gelada
• Sea otter
• Wild boar
• North American black bear
• Elk/Wapiti
• Pallas cat
• Raccoon dog
• Golden snub-nosed monkey
• Rock hopper penguin
• Bighorn sheep
• Mountain goat
• Leopard seal
• Yak
• Coyote
• Wisent
• Yellow-throated marten
• Chamois
• Japanese serow

Quite some animals I love there among them. But I have a hard time making a pack out of it that would attrack the average PZ player. Obviously I want the Tanuki very much, but so close to the racoon that would confuse some people.

 

[MarcB096]

To be honest I never even heard of the tanuki until last month after so many people were talking about it for the nocturnal pack

I had to look it up....I actually know them (after seeing a picture of it) as racoon dogs

But I would love to have more japanese species in the game, too.....

 

[raf8655]

You've put this so much more eloquently than what I would have said.

When I say an all bird pack is unlikely from Frontier, I mean it for other groupings as well. It's not just about mammals vs birds, or mammals vs reptiles etc. I don't think an all feline pack would work. Or an all primate pack. Or an all reptile pack. Or an all ungulate pack. Or an all canine pack. Or a rodent pack. Or a pack full of lemurs.

There was always a mix of animals in packs - Wetlands has a capybara (a rodent and a mammal), and a caiman (reptile), and a the wild buffalo (bovine and mammal), and the red crowned crane (bird) etc. Conservation pack has the schimitar oryx (bovine and mammal) and the siamang (primate and mammal). Yes, they are all mammals, but some are primates, others are rodents, and all the other orders and families they belong too. They are distinct enough despite belonging to the same class.

I also think we're forgetting one thing - there are others who play the game and see a horse, a monkey, a cat, and an antelope in a pack and think "Neat! That's different enough for me to buy this pack!" If you see 8 cats in a pack, and you don't like or care about cats...the likely hood of you buying the cat pack is probably not that high. I'd buy the cat pack in a hearbeat, but I'm not the only one playing Planet Zoo. A mix of animals is always better in my opinion.

That's exactly what I've been saying for a long time, completely agree.

 

[MarcB096]

You've put this so much more eloquently than what I would have said.

When I say an all bird pack is unlikely from Frontier, I mean it for other groupings as well. It's not just about mammals vs birds, or mammals vs reptiles etc. I don't think an all feline pack would work. Or an all primate pack. Or an all reptile pack. Or an all ungulate pack. Or an all canine pack. Or a rodent pack. Or a pack full of lemurs.

There was always a mix of animals in packs - Wetlands has a capybara (a rodent and a mammal), and a caiman (reptile), and a the wild buffalo (bovine and mammal), and the red crowned crane (bird) etc. Conservation pack has the schimitar oryx (bovine and mammal) and the siamang (primate and mammal). Yes, they are all mammals, but some are primates, others are rodents, and all the other orders and families they belong too. They are distinct enough despite belonging to the same class.

I also think we're forgetting one thing - there are others who play the game and see a horse, a monkey, a cat, and an antelope in a pack and think "Neat! That's different enough for me to buy this pack!" If you see 8 cats in a pack, and you don't like or care about cats...the likely hood of you buying the cat pack is probably not that high. I'd buy the cat pack in a hearbeat, but I'm not the only one playing Planet Zoo. A mix of animals is always better in my opinion.

I think it could work for some kind of "species packs"... maybe when they continue the support until at least 2024.........(and then for example as animal packs with only 5 animals for maybe 5,99€/$/£ )

 

[Mazoku]

Including mountain species but not going much beyond the first 100 I would say:

• Wolverine
• Walrus
• Musk ox
• Takin
• Markhor
• Red deer
• Spectacled bear
• Saiga
• Gelada
• Sea otter
• Wild boar
• North American black bear
• Elk/Wapiti
• Pallas cat
• Raccoon dog
• Golden snub-nosed monkey
• Rock hopper penguin
• Bighorn sheep
• Mountain goat
• Leopard seal
• Yak
• Coyote
• Wisent
• Yellow-throated marten
• Chamois
• Japanese serow

My Mountain/Cold Climate pack would be:
Wolverine
Musk Ox
Takin (I don't mind which species of Takin)
Markhor or Himalayan Tahr
Andean/Spectacled Bear
Gelada
Raccoon Dog or Pallas Cat
Idm any exhibit animals that live in cold climate
----------------------------------------
Here my island pack since people shared theirs lol:
Tasmanian Devil
Fossa
North Island Brown Kiwi
Aye-Aye
Goodfellow's Tree Kangaroo
Sulawesi Macaque
Lowland Anoa or Visayan Warty Pig
Idm any exhibit animals that live in islands

 

[raf8655]

Families and orders are not just for mammals. All classes have does, and here you seem to choose to ignore that birds and reptiles are also classes to make mammals appear more diverse. This is exactly why I say birds should be compared to mammals, not to families and orders within mammals.
Caiman: reptile (class) AND crocodilian (order). Red Crowned Crane (bird) AND crane (family). See the same thing can be done with those.

Mammals consist of 27 orders. Birds of 41 orders (https://www.birdfamiliesoftheworld.com/orders/).
Mammals 5000+ species, Birds 10.000+ Species. This is why I'm saying that birds are even more diverse than mammals.
That the general audience know more about mammals and they are more popular, I agree with. And mammals should be and very much have been the priority of this game.
But that doesn't mean a single bird pack is a bad idea. I'm sure a lot of people will be able to tell the difference between a pelican, an emu, and a turkey even though they can't put a name like cat or dog on top of them to tell them apart. People might even be positively surprised by how diverse such a pack could be.

I don't want this to be a war between bird and mammal people, I see no reason for that. Especially since I have a more or less equal interest in both groups.
I just want people to stop treating birds as lower-ranking animals with less diversity than mammals. It makes no sense.
While birds might not often be the reason people go to the zoo in the first place, and they might not take up as much space as mammals, they are still at least as important in a modern zoo as mammals are, which is why we need a decent amount in Planet Zoo. Like it or not.

Scientifically you are right, there is no doubt. There are birds that fly and others that do not fly, birds that live and nest near the sea, others in the mountains, some eat carrion, others fish, other seeds and fruits, some have totally different behaviors and other behaviors.

But the point is this, trying to be as simple as possible: consider equally diversified and with the same possibility of covering as much as possible the different tastes of people a DLC with [Macaw, Toucan, Eagle, Owl, Pelican] or a DLC with [ Capybara, Platypus, Otter, Crane, Caiman]?

 

[SalamAnders]

But the point is this, trying to be as simple as possible: consider equally diversified and with the same possibility of covering as much as possible the different tastes of people a DLC with [Macaw, Toucan, Eagle, Owl, Pelican] or a DLC with [ Capybara, Platypus, Otter, Crane, Caiman]?

The wetlands pack is among the most diverse packs we have seen having a bird, a reptile, and mammals of various orders as well as an amphibian in the exhibit.
But the packs are rarely this diverse, if they were we might not be lacking so much when it comes to birds.

But try to compare the lineup you made to the SEA pack instead, the Arctic pack, the Conservation Pack, the Europe Pack or the new Twilight pack. Then this [Macaw, Toucan, Eagle, Owl, Pelican] lineup is more or equally diverse yes.

 

[Pentoleaf]

I don't think we'll get a specific aviary pack simply because it makes more business sense for Fronrier to portion these hughly desired avairy animals (I'm icluding both small mammals and flying animals in this category) across several dlcs. Especially if their playing a long game and planning on extended support.

Imagine, for example -
Desert Pack
Dromedary
Armadillo
Emu
Peccary
Ex. Cobra
Aviary/WE. Burrowing Owl
Avairy/WE. Turkey Vulture
Aviary/WE. Naked mole rat

This would sell well, and leave many popular flying and habitat animals to entice buyers to get the next pack as well (and the next, and the next, and the next...)

 

[DragonNTiger]

But try to compare the lineup you made to the SEA pack instead, the Arctic pack, the Conservation Pack, the Europe Pack or the new Twilight pack. Then this [Macaw, Toucan, Eagle, Owl, Pelican] lineup is more or equally diverse yes.

Genetically perhaps, but visuals count too, and birds tend to look very similar, particularly in the body plan...

 

[SalamAnders]

but visuals count too

Which is why we might need some more colorful animals.

If we can expect people to find an ibex and a fallow deer visually different enough to be justified in the same pack, then I'm sure people will be able to tell a pelican and a toucan apart

 

[SpookDoc]

I don't know if I would like bigger birds being "exhibit" animals (because the new exhibit is still quite small for birds like vultures or eagles).
I would split it into smaller birds for exhibit/aviaries and the ones for habitat-aviaries (if we ever get them):

Exhibit:

• Zebra finch
• Red-crowned parakeet
• Sociable weaver
• Cockatiel
• Budgerigar
• Little owl
• Barn owl
• Common kingfisher

Habitat:

• Bald eagle
• Golden eagle
• White-tailed eagle
• Kea
• Common raven
• Southern yellow-billed hornbill
• Red-and-green macaw
• Hyacinth macaw

This is the only way I’d be ok with some birds in exhibit boxes. Really small species, like finches, that often flock together in large groups I can more easily understand needing to be on a looped set of animations and predefined to a box. Large, less social flying bird species as exhibit box species would be an absolute NO for me though. I would not purchase a pack that has parrots and eagles being only “glorified” exhibit species. Medium-to-large flying bird species can be quite terrestrial, especially in captivity, and there’s no reason that they shouldn’t make use of the one-of-a-kind climbing system Frontier already has in place in PZ. Additionally, there’s no fun in having birds if a player can’t build custom enclosures for them, imo. Irl, flying bird habitats in zoos can look vastly different and make use of various materials and sizing. On top of this, most aviaries are mixed-species, with a variety of different animal species living together in them. This is something that isn’t possible with PZ’s exhibit system atm.

Please excuse how blurry the pic is, but it’s an amazing example of the creative opportunities that real world zoos achieve with their aviaries. The habitat shown is the Antewarp Zoo Cape Buffalo Aviary, home to Cape Buffalo and a selection of larger flying bird species, including vultures, herons, storks, hornbills, and ibises. Things like this should be possible in a game that focuses so much of customization and “piece-by-piece” building.

 

[Captain Callum]

This is the only way I’d be ok with some birds in exhibit boxes. Really small species, like finches, that often flock together in large groups I can more easily understand needing to be on a looped set of animations and predefined to a box. Large, less social flying bird species as exhibit box species would be an absolute NO for me though. I would not purchase a pack that has parrots and eagles being only “glorified” exhibit species. Medium-to-large flying bird species can be quite terrestrial, especially in captivity, and there’s no reason that they shouldn’t make use of the one-of-a-kind climbing system Frontier already has in place in PZ. Additionally, there’s no fun in having birds if a player can’t build custom enclosures for them, imo. Irl, flying bird habitats in zoos can look vastly different and make use of various materials and sizing. On top of this, most aviaries are mixed-species, with a variety of different animal species living together in them. This is something that isn’t possible with PZ’s exhibit system atm.

View attachment 326681
Please excuse how blurry the pic is, but it’s an amazing example of the creative opportunities that real world zoos achieve with their aviaries. The habitat shown is the Antewarp Zoo Cape Buffalo Aviary, home to Cape Buffalo and a selection of larger flying bird species, including vultures, herons, storks, hornbills, and ibises. Things like this should be possible in a game that focuses so much of customization and “piece-by-piece” building.

Exactly we need both versions to suit builders who value realistic avaries and of course the prefab exhibits for those people who don't have the skills

 

[raf8655]

The wetlands pack is among the most diverse packs we have seen having a bird, a reptile, and mammals of various orders as well as an amphibian in the exhibit.
But the packs are rarely this diverse, if they were we might not be lacking so much when it comes to birds.

But try to compare the lineup you made to the SEA pack instead, the Arctic pack, the Conservation Pack, the Europe Pack or the new Twilight pack. Then this [Macaw, Toucan, Eagle, Owl, Pelican] lineup is more or equally diverse yes.

As I have already replied to someone before, the Arctic and Twilight DLCs are the ones with the least variations and with the most similar animals.

But how do you say that the SEA pack (Sun Bear, Clouded Leopard, Proboscis Monkey, Malayan Tapir, Babirusa, Binturong, Dhole, Giant Malaysian Leaf Insect), the conservation pack (Przewalski's Horse, Amur Leopard, Siamang, Oryx, Axolotl) and Europe pack (Lynx, Alpine Ibex, Badger, Fallow Deer, Fire Salamander) aren't DLCs with incredible diversity between species?

 

[MarcB096]

This is the only way I’d be ok with some birds in exhibit boxes. Really small species, like finches, that often flock together in large groups I can more easily understand needing to be on a looped set of animations and predefined to a box. Large, less social flying bird species as exhibit box species would be an absolute NO for me though. I would not purchase a pack that has parrots and eagles being only “glorified” exhibit species. Medium-to-large flying bird species can be quite terrestrial, especially in captivity, and there’s no reason that they shouldn’t make use of the one-of-a-kind climbing system Frontier already has in place in PZ. Additionally, there’s no fun in having birds if a player can’t build custom enclosures for them, imo. Irl, flying bird habitats in zoos can look vastly different and make use of various materials and sizing. On top of this, most aviaries are mixed-species, with a variety of different animal species living together in them. This is something that isn’t possible with PZ’s exhibit system atm.

View attachment 326681
Please excuse how blurry the pic is, but it’s an amazing example of the creative opportunities that real world zoos achieve with their aviaries. The habitat shown is the Antewarp Zoo Cape Buffalo Aviary, home to Cape Buffalo and a selection of larger flying bird species, including vultures, herons, storks, hornbills, and ibises. Things like this should be possible in a game that focuses so much of customization and “piece-by-piece” building.

I would (it I were in a position to decide that.....) take this approach for aviaries/exhibits for small birds:

Edit: thank you for deleting my mistake