There are ways to disrupt a high wake 15 second countdown, pirates utilize FSD disruption weaponry all the time if a transport needs extra convincing on why they should dump cargo. Unless you are referring to the 15 second menu option, which is still combat logging, even if 'legal'. Doing such too often is a quick way to get listed as kill on sight, and for pirates this results in an immediate hatchbreaker on interdict to ensure that you'll still spill cargo just in case.
With the implementation o NEW Karma e C&P - Will the Log timer go up? 15 secs is to low!
- Thread starter CMDR GTR2014
- Start date
There are ways to disrupt a high wake 15 second countdown, pirates utilize FSD disruption weaponry all the time if a transport needs extra convincing on why they should dump cargo. Unless you are referring to the 15 second menu option, which is still combat logging, even if 'legal'. Doing such too often is a quick way to get listed as kill on sight, and for pirates this results in an immediate hatchbreaker on interdict to ensure that you'll still spill cargo just in case.
Sorry but I am not stupid. Of course the timer is there because you still should have the chance to die. But why is it a timer at all? How about "You are not allowed to exit to the menu as long as you are in combat?" You are saying in your original post that the status quo is that you will face a rebuy if you leave the game during combat. That's not the case. You face the rebuy if you die within 15 seconds. This is what I am referring to when I say nonsense.
The argument goes as follows:
Person 1: Please change menu log timer.
Person 2: No keep it as it is, I'd like a way to escape rebuy because of my children...
Red Anders: No, change the menu log timer, because you need to accept that you face a rebuy.
You make it sound like it already is in the game and use that to argue why it should be in the game. That doesn't make any sense
Of course I am referring to menu logging, that's what this thread is about. I don't care if that's means people get on KOS lists since I am not doing it and it's COMPLETELY besides the point.
Also I coulnd't care less about the KOS list of some morons.
PS
"I put you on my KOS list because you didn't want to play with me"
Seriously? Get a life.
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So what are you thinking of with simply locking people out of logging out during combat, some edge case where someone has to leave the keyboard to stop their kid drinking some bleach or setting the dog on fire but is then able to return to the game quickly enough to resume the fight and win?
The context in which I was commenting was all these people with such busy lives that they supposedly find themselves jumping up from the keyboard every 30 seconds in a fight to avert some kind of natural disaster, coincidentally right as their shields drop below 10% lol. If they simply cannot log out during a fight they're just going to watch their ship blow up from across the room as they fight with a three year old and a dog and hold an important business conference call, so the effect would be the same anyway.
(Or maybe they would stay and try to win the fight but that would suggest some of them aren't being entirely honest, so let's not go there...)
I'd have no issue at all with a complete lock on logging out during combat. It's more severe than anything I've seen suggested in the thread though, so kudos for escalating things
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It removes it as a tool for escaping combat. Which is why there was the need for a timer in the first place. It was never supposed to be a combat tactic; it was an attempt to split the difference between allowing (but disincentivizing) logouts to escape combat, and the opposite (and extremely inconvenient) extreme of disabling logouts during combat altogether.
The 15 second timer clearly isn't getting the job done. The proof is that people routinely discuss it and advocate for it as a battle strategy. If people are routinely and frequently logging out of the game in order to escape conflict, rather than high-waking or low-waking or even trying to stay and fight, it means that even with the 15 second timer, logging is *better* than all those options.
So yes, if you are using logout as a primary battle strategy, rather than as a contingency for when life gets in the way; you would be correct to say that extending the timer is the equivalent of removing it. Which is fine because it is an undesirable behavior that we *want* to remove.
So what are you thinking of with simply locking people out of logging out during combat, some edge case where someone has to leave the keyboard to stop their kid drinking some bleach or setting the dog on fire but is then able to return to the game quickly enough to resume the fight and win?
The context in which I was commenting was all these people with such busy lives that they supposedly find themselves jumping up from the keyboard every 30 seconds in a fight to avert some kind of natural disaster, coincidentally right as their shields drop below 10% lol. If they simply cannot log out during a fight they're just going to watch their ship blow up from across the room as they fight with a three year old and a dog and hold an important business conference call, so the effect would be the same anyway.
(Or maybe they would stay and try to win the fight but that would suggest some of them aren't being entirely honest, so let's not go there...)
I'd have no issue at all with a complete lock on logging out during combat. It's more severe than anything I've seen suggested in the thread though, so kudos for escalating things
Why not? I don't have a problem with a discussion about measures against combat logging, I had a problem with your argument being flawed (at least how I read it). I made suggestions to stop combat logging which are way more severe, like banning people to Solo if they continue to do it.
You make it sound like it already is in the game and use that to argue why it should be in the game. That doesn't make any sense
No. What I said (pretty clearly actually) is that it is fairly common in other games and that the only reason it isn't in this one is due to the networking protocol used, not because of a gameplay decision that logging should be a way to avoid a rebuy. It's an incidental effect of the decision regarding networking, not a design decision intended to protect players.
I'm neither arguing for it or against it by the way, it's the disingenuous nature of some of the arguments that prompted my post. Some people seem to think the menu logout is there to protect them, which is why they object to a longer timer reducing that protection. All I'm saying is that menu logging isn't supposed to be a way for them to avoid a rebuy to begin with.
Fair enough. I interpreted your 'why is there a timer to begin with' as something other than what you actually meant.
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Then don't use it and block people you see using it.
All this trying to change the game for others to mach your favourite style is nonsense.
If you disconnect against me, I'll just block you so I don't have to deal again.
If you use the menu, then I accept that as part of the game, same as if I have to leave the game in a hurry, I'll expect you to respect that I paid as much for this game as you - but I won't cheat to do it.
Being called away from the machine should not guarantee a rebuy, which is what some people want to see.
On the other hand, proven combat loggers (not using the menu) should get a rebuy.
Shared kill-on-sight lists should guarantee a lifetime ban for anyone using them.
I referred to the part I bolded, where you didn't say such a thing. You said "people need to accept that they will face a rebuy." No, they don't. Not unless this is going to be changed
I have never witnessed anyone discussing the Timed Exit as a battle strategy. I can see a nominal increase to pacify the piratical types, but that won't stop those that are willing to ditch combat. We will just see those players use it to their best advantage. 30 Sec.s? Start the process sooner. 45 Sec.s? Start the process with an interdiction. And it would go on.
On the other hand, there will be a continuous call for changing it when whatever new method of use is sussed out. People will get the idea that the timer should be set where the exiting ship always leaves enough time for it to be destroyed.
This idea of a weapon "Hit" would reset the timer is completely ludicrous, if you just take a moment to understand why the timer is there. But, no one on the 'increase it' side has any sympathy for that, it's pop or nothing. I for one am glad that there are Dev's between us and the rules.
On the other hand, there will be a continuous call for changing it when whatever new method of use is sussed out. People will get the idea that the timer should be set where the exiting ship always leaves enough time for it to be destroyed.
This idea of a weapon "Hit" would reset the timer is completely ludicrous, if you just take a moment to understand why the timer is there. But, no one on the 'increase it' side has any sympathy for that, it's pop or nothing. I for one am glad that there are Dev's between us and the rules.
What does this statement have to do with the current topic?
only that people in this thread use them as a punishment for people suspected of combat logging (and indeed menu logging)
Pretty sure that 99% of all arguments on the internet only exist because people interpret something wrong... It's also very likely that I interpreted your comment wrong
Sorry but I am not stupid. Of course the timer is there because you still should have the chance to die. But why is it a timer at all? How about "You are not allowed to exit to the menu as long as you are in combat?" You are saying in your original post that the status quo is that you will face a rebuy if you leave the game during combat. That's not the case. You face the rebuy if you die within 15 seconds. This is what I am referring to when I say nonsense.
The argument goes as follows:
Person 1: Please change menu log timer.
Person 2: No keep it as it is, I'd like a way to escape rebuy because of my children...
Red Anders: No, change the menu log timer, because you need to accept that you face a rebuy.
You make it sound like it already is in the game and use that to argue why it should be in the game. That doesn't make any sense
Of course I am referring to menu logging, that's what this thread is about. I don't care if that's means people get on KOS lists since I am not doing it and it's COMPLETELY besides the point.
Also I coulnd't care less about the KOS list of some morons.
PS
"I put you on my KOS list because you didn't want to play with me"
Seriously? Get a life.
Some people have a KOS list, me I just either don't bother with them if they were a bounty hunter (annoying since they start the fight on me but log to avoid dying) or put them on my mental 'hatchbreak ASAP' list. In at least one case this caused a menu logged to taskkill instead, which is an outright exploit that I recorded and reported to FD.
Now if my evidence of a logger ends up getting someone on a KOS list that's not my problem.
Then perhaps the timed menu quit should be removed from solo and the PG's and only kept for open, why should players in these modes have to wait to log out for being in danger (as others have said even non combat issues that trigger it as well ) to deal with real life issues to satisfy a pew pewer in open that now want 60 seconds as a timed logout
Fair enough. I don't see why a shared KOS list should earn anybody a ban of any kind much less a life time one, but I have your name filed under "dramatic overreaction against anything even remotely PvP related" so I guess it makes sense when looked at through your filter.
From the OP's rant are they saying that Combat logging is rife in PvP engagements?
Does this mean that every fight PvPers engage in the loser always combat logs?
I am surprised if this is true.
Regarding menu logouts, this is an accepted method to cease play by a player, so really you should just suck it up and realise a few things.
Changing menu timers won't deter those players, they will still menu log, or more likely just kill the program, you still won't get your precious kill.
Rebuy costs are probably not an issue to these players, it's high likelihood that they have Quinced/Robigoed/Sothised there way to billionairedom so even if you enforce some sort of rebuy charge you will just perpetuate those get rich quick escapades.
Finally, I have to say to you "Really? I mean really? The fact that you can't destroy every player is so key to your enjoyment?"
Because I do find this issue pathetic.
Does this mean that every fight PvPers engage in the loser always combat logs?
I am surprised if this is true.
Regarding menu logouts, this is an accepted method to cease play by a player, so really you should just suck it up and realise a few things.
Changing menu timers won't deter those players, they will still menu log, or more likely just kill the program, you still won't get your precious kill.
Rebuy costs are probably not an issue to these players, it's high likelihood that they have Quinced/Robigoed/Sothised there way to billionairedom so even if you enforce some sort of rebuy charge you will just perpetuate those get rich quick escapades.
Finally, I have to say to you "Really? I mean really? The fact that you can't destroy every player is so key to your enjoyment?"
Because I do find this issue pathetic.
"Label and Dismiss" the perfect dodge.
Didn't I point out that it made sense when looked at through her filter? Also, see post #97
Nice try though
He is right though.
I stand by my comments of course, since nobody has convinced me otherwise, but I do overreact, especially with respect to pvp. It's a hold over from 6 years playing EVE and not wanting Elite to take the same road.