Game Discussions X4 this looks Very good

Pure Newt flight is tough to play. I used to fly around in Pioneer which is a pure newt game; trying to catch and position a target is time consuming and tough to do. I think you'd need heat seekers or radar controlled missiles to fire and forget to do combat (that's speculation since I never used missiles with Pioneer). I tried chasing down ships in Pioneer to start a ruckus and what a chore.
I think I have my Independence War disks in a box somewhere; along side my MechWarrior disks and some other grand ole games I used to play. I-War was nice.
Books and TV shows that use "realistic" flight also use "time compression" to compensate for these long travel times. For example, a book might read, "Commander, I'm going to get some much needed shuteye. Wake me when we are just outside of range of the enemy vessel." The book then spends a couple of sentences talking about the captain's restless sleep which is over way too soon as a comms calls him to the bridge six hours later.

I'm not a huge fan of time compression in a game unless it's something like a submarine game where time compression is used on the map screen while you wait for a contact. One way to avoid time compression is to add a new technology to the "old" Newtonian thruster technology - jump drives. Space Engineers has this, allowing me to perform a wormhole / space folding jump to get in range of a target, at which point I can then engage in "Newtonian" combat (though SE has speed caps like all other games). There's actually a fun gameplay aspect to this, because if I don't have coordinates to the target, I need to make a "blind jump", which means calculating (or guessing) the vector and distance to jump to bring myself in range of an enemy ship. This may take a few attempts, each one followed by a drive recharge and spool-up period. However, I do like this, because not only is it fun, it's plausible as well.

But on the topic of X4, I honestly don't know why Navigare is saying this is a Newtonian physics game... It's less Newtonian than Elite IMO, but on the other hand there are technologies in this game (artificial gravity, inertial dampeners, etc) that help explain why it's less Newtonian, so that makes the flight model easier to swallow. I actually like X4's flight model more than ED, but I would never say it's more realistic..
 
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But on the topic of X4, I honestly don't know why Navigare is saying this is a Newtonian physics game... It's less Newtonian than Elite IMO, but on the other hand there are technologies in this game (artificial gravity, inertial dampeners, etc) that help explain why it's less Newtonian, so that makes the flight model easier to swallow. I actually like X4's flight model more than ED, but I would never say it's more realistic..
If you flip the switch you fly newtonian in X. If you flip the switch in ED you are fighting the controls. "Realistic" was the wrong word probably. Replace with "newtonianish".
 
If you flip the switch you fly newtonian in X. If you flip the switch in ED you are fighting the controls. "Realistic" was the wrong word probably. Replace with "newtonianish".
I agree that "FA-Off" in both X and SE are way better than FA-Off in ED, if that's what you are talking about. I also much prefer X4's travel drive over ED's boosting. I know technically X4 also has a boost, but I never use it, preferring jumping in and out of travel drive mode instead.

When it comes to "Newtonian" flight, SE is probably the best of the bunch, because it calculates acceleration in any direction based on thruster force on that plane. This gives me incredibly fine-tuned control over my flight characteristics, allowing me to turn off certain thrusters to modify how my ship flies, along with overriding other thrusters to set a smooth, gradual acceleration at a lower fuel consumption. It also makes combat more realistic, because targeting individual thrusters will dramatically change a ship's flight characteristics. Granted, it doesn't take center-of-mass into consideration (which drives @Darkfyre99 nuts), but the use gyroscopes can account for this oversight IMO.

The obvious disclaimer is that KSP is the gold standard for Newtonian flight, but AFAIK there is no combat in KSP.
 
OMG, what eez that? That looks amazing! I'm such a sucker for red glow engines.
Xenon "U" super carrier from the VRO mod. The video test fight was against at least 6 of the Teladi Battleships (also from the VRO mod). One just appeared in Teladi Territory and already ate one sector by itself. I am mounting a defense at the next gate with 2 split battleships, A Raptor with 30 bombers and 60 heavy fighters and a handful of destroyers. Hoping it will be enough.....
 
I agree that "FA-Off" in both X and SE are way better than FA-Off in ED, if that's what you are talking about. I also much prefer X4's travel drive over ED's boosting. I know technically X4 also has a boost, but I never use it, preferring jumping in and out of travel drive mode instead.

When it comes to "Newtonian" flight, SE is probably the best of the bunch, because it calculates acceleration in any direction based on thruster force on that plane. This gives me incredibly fine-tuned control over my flight characteristics, allowing me to turn off certain thrusters to modify how my ship flies, along with overriding other thrusters to set a smooth, gradual acceleration at a lower fuel consumption. It also makes combat more realistic, because targeting individual thrusters will dramatically change a ship's flight characteristics. Granted, it doesn't take center-of-mass into consideration (which drives @Darkfyre99 nuts), but the use gyroscopes can account for this oversight IMO.

The obvious disclaimer is that KSP is the gold standard for Newtonian flight, but AFAIK there is no combat in KSP.
Space Engineers has a speed ceiling which you reach fairly quick. Makes it kinda gamey. X4 probably has one too but I never hit it. Speed limits like in ED I find quite lame. The lower that limit the more I disagree with it.
 
Space Engineers has a speed ceiling which you reach fairly quick. Makes it kinda gamey. X4 probably has one too but I never hit it. Speed limits like in ED I find quite lame. The lower that limit the more I disagree with it.
The speed ceiling in SE (100m/s) is easily overcome by extending it in the configs. I usually run 1000 m/s, but the game remains very stable right upto 6-7000 m/s.
The jump drives in SE are also much better because they push you along in the same space, something not found in many other space games. You never leave the space your in.
 
The speed ceiling in SE (100m/s) is easily overcome by extending it in the configs. I usually run 1000 m/s, but the game remains very stable right upto 6-7000 m/s.
The jump drives in SE are also much better because they push you along in the same space, something not found in many other space games. You never leave the space your in.
I can only judge what I see. And the 100 m/s just doesnt cut it. And before I decide to look how to change such stuff I am more likely to not bother because chances that you cant change something that might be hard-coded are pretty high.
 
I can only judge what I see. And the 100 m/s just doesnt cut it. And before I decide to look how to change such stuff I am more likely to not bother because chances that you cant change something that might be hard-coded are pretty high.
Not hard coded.
There are many things you can alter in SE, it is really steered at the sandbox player. It's a little like Arma in that respect, probably why I rate it as the best space sandbox game around.
Empyrion is very similar in that regard. Aimed at players that like to fiddle around a bit. :)
 
Not hard coded.
There are many things you can alter in SE, it is really steered at the sandbox player. It's a little like Arma in that respect, probably why I rate it as the best space sandbox game around.
Empyrion is very similar in that regard. Aimed at players that like to fiddle around a bit. :)
I just wouldn't have imagined when I played. Now I'd certainly go and change that.
 
Space Engineers has a speed ceiling which you reach fairly quick. Makes it kinda gamey. X4 probably has one too but I never hit it. Speed limits like in ED I find quite lame. The lower that limit the more I disagree with it.
X4 definitely has speed limits that are quite easy to hit. In fact, some ships are painfully slow. Granted the travel drive limit can be pretty high on certain ships, but TD is similar to ED's supercruise in that it's a form of fast travel and not your "operating" speed. It's not even available in combat if you're taking hits.

Are you sure you're playing the same X4 game I am?

The speed ceiling in SE (100m/s) is easily overcome by extending it in the configs. I usually run 1000 m/s, but the game remains very stable right upto 6-7000 m/s.
The jump drives in SE are also much better because they push you along in the same space, something not found in many other space games. You never leave the space your in.
Yep, the speed limit is basically a very conservative limit for servers, though I know of servers that run at higher speeds without issue. In single player I usually select 500 m/s since this matches what I'm used to in ED. It's also approximately the top speed of an F-18, and since I'm operating in atmosphere as often as I'm not, I wanted to choose a realistic average speed cap.
 
X4 definitely has speed limits that are quite easy to hit. In fact, some ships are painfully slow. Granted the travel drive limit can be pretty high on certain ships, but TD is similar to ED's supercruise in that it's a form of fast travel and not your "operating" speed. It's not even available in combat if you're taking hits.

Are you sure you're playing the same X4 game I am?


Yep, the speed limit is basically a very conservative limit for servers, though I know of servers that run at higher speeds without issue. In single player I usually select 500 m/s since this matches what I'm used to in ED. It's also approximately the top speed of an F-18, and since I'm operating in atmosphere as often as I'm not, I wanted to choose a realistic average speed cap.
I mean the engine speed ceilings, not the ship top speeds. You can extend ship top speed with gear and "engineering". You can't do anything about the world speed limits in the game. Also if you change ships your top speed changes. yadayada. Ponit is: I picked Paranid scout which is like fastest ship and strapped on fastest engines and engineered that and didn't hit an engine / world ceiling. At least it still looked like a ship specific top speed. And it took several minutes to reach. Not like in SE where you hit 100 m/s almost instantly just by trying out the controls.
 
And it took several minutes to reach. Not like in SE where you hit 100 m/s almost instantly just by trying out the controls.
A light ship with big engines will hit top speed quickly, just like a motorcycle. A big heavy ship, on the other hand.. My mining / transport ship fully loaded takes a long time, relatively speaking, to get up to speed. More importantly, it takes just as long to slow down, so I really have to be careful with my approaches, because unlike ED and X4, ship collisions in SE are very Newtonian (no bouncing, just crashing / crumbing / breaking / destruction). Same goes with things like gyroscopes.

Case in point - I built a Krait in SE that was as close to ED's Krait as I could get it, including thruster placement, and the Krait in SE flew like a heavy, sluggish brick rather than the nimble speed demon it is in ED. This is what I mean by SE being more realistic than ED and X4 when it comes to Newtonian flight model - in SE, a = F / m, a feeling I just don't get in ED or X4 (though X4's large ships do a way better job than ED's large ships at feeling massive).

Of course speed limits are a pain in the vacuum of space, but in SE this is more about the voxel engine than it is about the gameplay they're trying to simulate. Though Keen just showcased a realistic orbit mod that has velocities in the tens of thousands of m/s, so I think Keen's default 100 m/s is HIGHLY conservative (perhaps with low-end hardware in mind).
 
A light ship with big engines will hit top speed quickly, just like a motorcycle. A big heavy ship, on the other hand.. My mining / transport ship fully loaded takes a long time, relatively speaking, to get up to speed. More importantly, it takes just as long to slow down, so I really have to be careful with my approaches, because unlike ED and X4, ship collisions in SE are very Newtonian (no bouncing, just crashing / crumbing / breaking / destruction). Same goes with things like gyroscopes.

Case in point - I built a Krait in SE that was as close to ED's Krait as I could get it, including thruster placement, and the Krait in SE flew like a heavy, sluggish brick rather than the nimble speed demon it is in ED. This is what I mean by SE being more realistic than ED and X4 when it comes to Newtonian flight model - in SE, a = F / m, a feeling I just don't get in ED or X4 (though X4's large ships do a way better job than ED's large ships at feeling massive).

Of course speed limits are a pain in the vacuum of space, but in SE this is more about the voxel engine than it is about the gameplay they're trying to simulate. Though Keen just showcased a realistic orbit mod that has velocities in the tens of thousands of m/s, so I think Keen's default 100 m/s is HIGHLY conservative (perhaps with low-end hardware in mind).
Yes, I like how mass really influences accelerations in SE. And I had my fair share of catastrophic collisions. Good to know it's changeable - since I don't bother about MP I doubt I'd need to leave it at the conservative level.
 
From around the 02:45:00 mark, plenty of info for German speakers, plenty of footage for everyone else.

https://m.twitch.tv/videos/1215525229
Story, systems (maps), ships. Base game gets improved along. Recycling is new feature (those compacted cubes flying around I guess) - sounds like flagship feature with the DLC but available in vanilla too - probably a bit simplified. Find big conflict zone and you can build a new base for your economy with the scrappings. DLC system has natural phenomenon that is destructive and intended to tie into the recycling feature. Even better energy output than Mercury sector. Indeed piracy is one of the foci of the DLC. Updated vanilla capital ships (new variants).
Bernd is not a fan of the power triangle. New ship class - a yacht with lots of interiors. And fast.
Price point of DLC: 15 EUR.
 
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