Guide / Tutorial Yokai's guide to recognizing (and finding) a great trade route

very nice checklist.
I will compare it with my own procedure in my next run but I think I can mention a few things:

5. I have seen videos where skilled players don't bother with any alignment but seem to launch and exit in one fast & smooth arc. I hope to master this.

6. very good point. I will adjust my procedure

11. I think it is safe to reduce to 75% (a bit faster than optimum). specially when planning to use gravitational breaking

17. in a) you ask for docking permission first but in b) you boost first. why the difference. I always immediately boost in both cases.

additional: between 17 and 18: 17.5: select enter hangar and immediately without waiting select station services.

more hints:
if you can see that you will come in slightly too fast to disengagement you can slow down by a short pitch away and back
upgrades: better power distributor allows shorter waits between boosts
vertical thrusters are useful during station approach to align with slot while you are nearing the station

Thanks for your comments and hints, mate. I updated my list.
5. That's what I do with smaller ships (I even used boost with my old Type 6 leaving from a back or medium row :p). With bigger and more sluggish ships you have to be more cautious though, especially when flying without shields.
11. I use a joystick throttle, so I can't tell exactly but optimum speed is more than 50%, 75% could be the spot.
17. a) corrected, ofc I boost first too. Guess my subconsciousness told me to mention the permission first (I often forgot to get it while talking to friends) :)
between 17 and 18: I use the time in the launch phase (hangar and turn) to open up the galaxy map and set the course to the next system.
 
Suggestion: Add steam overlay as a multitasking tip

1. Learn to multi-task.

Good job with that guide Yokai! May I suggest you add the following to your "Multitasking" section:
"If you add the EDlauncher to your steam library manually and launch it via steam, its overlay will be available to you in flight by pressing Shift+Tab. It comes with a built in web browser that allows you to use third-party tools, type into Google Drive spreadsheets etc. all while you are supercruising. This also tends to be quicker and cause fewer possible complications than to Alt-Tab out of game entirely."

That has saved me so much time.
 
Good job with that guide Yokai! May I suggest you add the following to your "Multitasking" section:
"If you add the EDlauncher to your steam library manually and launch it via steam, its overlay will be available to you in flight by pressing Shift+Tab. It comes with a built in web browser that allows you to use third-party tools, type into Google Drive spreadsheets etc. all while you are supercruising. This also tends to be quicker and cause fewer possible complications than to Alt-Tab out of game entirely."

That has saved me so much time.


Done. I've created a new section at the bottom of the guide for tips from other commanders. Feel free; the more people we help achieve their goals in ED with least frustration, the happier we all will ultimately be.
 
I had to reply to the thread just to add it to my subscriptions so I will be able to easily refer back to it.

Finding this thread feels like finding an awesome trade route. I almost want to hide this thread now... too much good info here.
 
An excellent guide indeed. +1 Rep for that.


However, my own experience with trying to follow these rules was less than encouraging, to say the least.

Applying the filters to the galaxy map showed it to be completely empty for me. Devoid of any system that fit the criteria, in a radius of at least 100 ly.

When I had finally scrolled far enough to see a few dots pop up, they were spread out so far that it didn't make any sense to check them at all. The distance to the nearest system was more than two jumps, and it had the same economy.

When I had finally reached the 200ly mark, little clusters of dots appeared. Green and yellow. Finally, I thought I had found something. Turned out the systems didn't meet the criteria. The nearest starport was too far out, the population was not large enough, something was always wrong.

When I finally found a wealthy, huge population high tech system, I checked it out and it had only medium supply for all its goods.

This whole process had cost me more time than a rare trade run with my Asp. And thousands of credits in repairs from wear and tear. Without one single credit earned.

So guess where I am going back to. Selling my T6 and running rares in my Asp. Because at least the profit margin for rares is stable, and the supply is guaranteed. Yes, it takes more time, but it also pays well. 2.6 million a day is enough for me. One round trip from star cluster to star cluster with 80 tons full of rares. Should I find a "seeking luxuries" economy along the way, I will check it out for profit margins. But until then, rare trading it is.

I lost one afternoon full of frustration trying to apply the techniques described in the OP. My frustration tolerance with this game has sunken so low that I cannot endure any more right now.
 
An excellent guide indeed. +1 Rep for that.


However, my own experience with trying to follow these rules was less than encouraging, to say the least.

Applying the filters to the galaxy map showed it to be completely empty for me. Devoid of any system that fit the criteria, in a radius of at least 100 ly.

When I had finally scrolled far enough to see a few dots pop up, they were spread out so far that it didn't make any sense to check them at all. The distance to the nearest system was more than two jumps, and it had the same economy.

When I had finally reached the 200ly mark, little clusters of dots appeared. Green and yellow. Finally, I thought I had found something. Turned out the systems didn't meet the criteria. The nearest starport was too far out, the population was not large enough, something was always wrong.

When I finally found a wealthy, huge population high tech system, I checked it out and it had only medium supply for all its goods.

This whole process had cost me more time than a rare trade run with my Asp. And thousands of credits in repairs from wear and tear. Without one single credit earned.

So guess where I am going back to. Selling my T6 and running rares in my Asp. Because at least the profit margin for rares is stable, and the supply is guaranteed. Yes, it takes more time, but it also pays well. 2.6 million a day is enough for me. One round trip from star cluster to star cluster with 80 tons full of rares. Should I find a "seeking luxuries" economy along the way, I will check it out for profit margins. But until then, rare trading it is.

I lost one afternoon full of frustration trying to apply the techniques described in the OP. My frustration tolerance with this game has sunken so low that I cannot endure any more right now.

Don't rush to sell the T6, you can still run rares in it and just fill the unused space up with a commodity, even if it only brings you an additional 20-30k on that run.
 
@PhilHibbs - Yes. You can put X cargo in then check your current max jump range via console nav points within range. Or you can use the Navigation tab on the Galaxy Map. Near the bottom is a little slider control that you can set to any point between fully laden or unladen and see your exact range that way.

@Vendraen - The guide was written specifically about commodity trade routes. I didn't want the title to be too lengthy, and I figured the executive summary would make it clear that I wasn't going to talk about rare routes. To me, rare trading is not challenging, because it's a matter of googling the best circuit for rare trading. Every point is fixed. Nothing is dynamic. Not to mention, FD recently nerfed rare trading. As @Armchair says, once you get a T6 (which comes pretty fast even if you've never traded a rare, ever, like myself) the numbers move quickly in favor of regular commodity trading if you can learn how to find the cash cow routes yielding >8000 cr/ton/hour.

To wrap your head around the process, start with the notion of "buy from HIGH supply and sell to HIGH demand or MEDIUM demand". In other words, look at the supply column at every station you land at. See a "HIGH" value there for any of the good commodities (Palladium, Gold, Progenitor Cells, etc.)? Then stop and look at the right side of the window for the list of "exported to" systems. Those are all prospects for a profitable sale. Pretty much all of those listed systems will be a HIGH or MED demand. Go investigate.

But now let's refine the technique and save yourself some time. Go into the Galaxy Map and on the View tab enable "Show trade routes". But NOT all of them! Click the Clear button. Then expand the category that contains the commodity you're interested in. For example: Metal > Palladium. Make sure only "Palladium" is checked. Now hover over every nearby system one or two jumps out from your current position and spend the 100 CR to buy the trade data for each system where available. You'll quickly see that the Palladium trade lines that appear correspond to that list of "Exported to" systems in the commodities window. What you're looking for is the ONE close by system that seems to have MULTIPLE lines converging on it. If a system has multiple converging lines from two or more other systems, it's _probably_ a HIGH demand system. So your best bet is to go check only the one or two systems from the "Exported to" list that seem to have multiple incoming trade lines for that commdoity. (By the way, conversely you'll notice that if you're currently at a HIGH supply station, you should see multiple lines originating from your current system to other systems.

Next nuance to master, to save time: When you find a HIGH supply item, check the "Buy" value against the "Galactic Average" value. If you can't buy it for AT LEAST 1000 cr below Galactic Average, stop right there and move on. You'll find that nearly every "cash cow" trade route features one or both commodities involved being purchased (by you) for at least 1000 cr below average, if not more. Most of of the huge variance from average is on the SUPPLY side, not the DEMAND side!

Got it so far? HIGH supply that you can purchase at more than 1000 cr below galactic average. That's where you start. If you don't see anything like that, move on to the next station. If you find something like that, then look at the "exported to" systems and spend the 1000cr or so it will take to populate all the current trade lines in the galaxy map to show you what's what in the area.

That's the basic "in-game" pattern to finding likely best candidates for a trade route. At least for one commodity, in one direction. The trick is to find a good target station that ALSO has a HIGH or MEDIUM supply commodity that is also in HIGH or MEDIUM demand at the current station from which you're shipping out (for example) Palladium. This is where the elbow grease and the pencil and paper and spreadsheets come in if you're doing it the hard way using only in-game tools. Why? Because in-game, the only way to see whether there's a good profit to be made on the return leg is to actually fly out to your top candidate stations and look for HIGH or MED supply commodities, then cross reference each one against the list you made of "Sell" prices from the first station. Yes, it's a PITA. A seriously time-consuming PITA, but some people enjoy that. :)

It's much easier to let a crowdsourced tool like Slopey's do the heavy lifting for you. Here, you don't care jack about HIGH or MED, etc. (In fact, some of the best profits can actually be had from MED supply to MED demand, but in both directions). When using a tool, all you care about is having it crunch the numbers to find the highest unit profit available in both directions. You're using the same general principles as in-game, but you're just using a souped-up calculator and a huge database of crowdsourced information from far more systems than you could possibly investigate for yourself.

Now, why do I say that some of the best profits can actually be had from MED supply to MED demand? This is my main beef with the in-game tools, which really serve to highlight only HIGH values on one end or the other. When you find a juicy HIGH supply item that is priced at something like 1400 below Galactic Average, one of the good target systems to export too will typically be buying it at roughly 200-350 above GA. For a nice juicy profit of 1600-1750 cr/ton. Sweet, right? But chances are VERY VERY CERTAIN that you won't find any decent trades from that other system back to the system you're making a sweet profit on. You might be lucky to find something you can schlep back at only 200 cr/ton, making your round trip worth something like 1800 cr/ton. If your round trip takes 15 minutes, that's only 7200 cr/ton/hour, which is below the "cash cow" benchmark.

However, if you can find a route where the profit in one direction is a modest 1150 cr/ton, and in the other direction it's 950 cr/ton, that's 8400 cr/ton/hour. These are actually fairly common to find, but you'll never find them in-game by keying in only on HIGH values to narrow down your list of candidates. Almost all runs like these will be based on commodities that are MED supply and MED demand at both ends.

Hope that helps!

Great guide and post. Will have a good re-read and see what I can find as recently got the T6.

Thanks & Regards
 
An excellent guide indeed. +1 Rep for that.


However, my own experience with trying to follow these rules was less than encouraging, to say the least.

Applying the filters to the galaxy map showed it to be completely empty for me. Devoid of any system that fit the criteria, in a radius of at least 100 ly.

When I had finally scrolled far enough to see a few dots pop up, they were spread out so far that it didn't make any sense to check them at all. The distance to the nearest system was more than two jumps, and it had the same economy.

When I had finally reached the 200ly mark, little clusters of dots appeared. Green and yellow. Finally, I thought I had found something. Turned out the systems didn't meet the criteria. The nearest starport was too far out, the population was not large enough, something was always wrong.

When I finally found a wealthy, huge population high tech system, I checked it out and it had only medium supply for all its goods.

This whole process had cost me more time than a rare trade run with my Asp. And thousands of credits in repairs from wear and tear. Without one single credit earned.

So guess where I am going back to. Selling my T6 and running rares in my Asp. Because at least the profit margin for rares is stable, and the supply is guaranteed. Yes, it takes more time, but it also pays well. 2.6 million a day is enough for me. One round trip from star cluster to star cluster with 80 tons full of rares. Should I find a "seeking luxuries" economy along the way, I will check it out for profit margins. But until then, rare trading it is.

I lost one afternoon full of frustration trying to apply the techniques described in the OP. My frustration tolerance with this game has sunken so low that I cannot endure any more right now.


My guess is that:

A. You might have been a little too aggressive with the MIN slider for Population. As in, had it near the 80% mark instead of near the 65% mark. Results will vary depending on where exactly you are in the populated region. Certainly around Achenar (Empire) or Sol (Federation) for a good 200 Ly in every direction you'd see a LOT of green/orange dots with the population MIN set at roughly the 66% point.

B. If you checked literally only one system for the actual commodities, you're not.... Um... doing it right? Not every _candidate_ will be a "good" station for a trading route. It's just a "likely suspect". The steps in the guide are to filter out the worst of the noise and instead enable you to focus on a small set of candidates. These candidates, as a group, will be stronger than just throwing darts at the board and randomly landing on stations. But they're just _candidates_. You still have to apply some elbow grease from there.
 
Really great guide. I made nearly 200 Millions in Trading without knowing this guide (my bad, could have saved me many hours) and still learned interesting and very useful things I didn't knew. I will use it to optimize my tradings in the future. Thank you very much for sharing your experience :)

2b. Use max throttle in SC until your time horizon indicator hits exactly 0:10. Then immediatly drop your throttle indicator to the exact middle of the blue zone. Once you learn to nail this, you'll see your speed reliably drop from a 0:10 horizon to a 0:06 horizon in short order, without you needing to nurse the throttle in any way. A 0:06 horizon is the fastest speed you can approach when outside a 0.10 Ls range (otherwise you'll overshoot).

Interesting point, I use the same approach but pull the Throttle to the middle of blue at 7 seconds instead of 10. Never overshot this way, so if I'm not only very lucky, this may be another small improvement to the travel time if someone has mastered the "10 second border" already ;)
 
Really great guide. I made nearly 200 Millions in Trading without knowing this guide (my bad, could have saved me many hours) and still learned interesting and very useful things I didn't knew. I will use it to optimize my tradings in the future. Thank you very much for sharing your experience :)



Interesting point, I use the same approach but pull the Throttle to the middle of blue at 7 seconds instead of 10. Never overshot this way, so if I'm not only very lucky, this may be another small improvement to the travel time if someone has mastered the "10 second border" already ;)

Oh, you can definitely drop throttle to mid-blue at the :07 mark too. I used to do this. But you have a smaller window to find the right spot and can more easily end up going :05 while still more than .10 Ls from the station, which can put you in an overshoot situation if you don't react fast enough to use some flight tricks to get the speed back under control.

I now prefer using the :10 mark as my "pull the throttle" trigger because you'll _never_ overshoot this way. And it only adds a few extra seconds to the flight path, at most. Of course, once the counter drops into the Mm range I push the throttle back up, because there's not much danger of overshooting once you're in the Mm range.
 
I now prefer using the :10 mark as my "pull the throttle" trigger because you'll _never_ overshoot this way. And it only adds a few extra seconds to the flight path, at most. Of course, once the counter drops into the Mm range I push the throttle back up, because there's not much danger of overshooting once you're in the Mm range.

I can't take credit for the technique, as I have seen more than one person refer to it on this website, however...

The best method I have seen for managing the SC transition is: go into options and assign a key to the 75% throttle position (I set it to my spacebar). Then as you approach a target at full throttle, wait for exactly the 0:07 mark and just hit the spacebar. Don't even need to worry about throttle controller position (if you use one) it overrides it. The speed will rapidly ramp down and at your discretion you can go back to manual throttle control for the rest of the flight.
 
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I am really terrible at understanding changes made to game systems for some reason in this game. Is this extremely helpful and appreciated guide still valid for the trading changes that happened with 1.1?
 
I am really terrible at understanding changes made to game systems for some reason in this game. Is this extremely helpful and appreciated guide still valid for the trading changes that happened with 1.1?

I would say that it all still applies... my only criticism would be that (thru no fault of the OP's good intentions) some of the suggested criteria for eliminating trading posts is probably more applicable to someone who has been trading awhile and now has a spiffy ship with significantly further jump reach via upgraded FSD. If you are trying to make ends meet in a lowly Hauler, I would relax the max planet size to 50% and add the "mining" planets to the mix. It is more likely, to begin with, you will find one wealthy industrial large pop planet that pays top dollar for metals, and have to pair it with a mid-range mining facility. But, once you scrape together enough for your 40t Cobra transport, you will have a pretty good feel for it and maybe can tighten the screws down a bit.


Also... the first trading ship you outfit, might be a Hauler or Adder (I made do with the Hauler). You should definitely, upgrade the FSD to maybe a type C, make sure you have 16t of total cargo space (two 8t cargo bays) scrap all your guns, and upgrade/downgrade all remaining parts to class D, which are not only cheap, but offer the best jump distance economy.
 
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@Pennilenko: Yes. All rules and guidelines and benchmarks still accurate for 1.1.

@xj-jedi: You make a good point but I sidestep commodity trading below T6/Asp by recommending "rares routes" until you're in a T6 or better. Even then, depending on your success at applying the guide it can be a toss-up during the T6/Asp phase whether you'll make more cash per hour continuing rares routes or switching over to pure commodity trading. At T7/Clipper and larger ships, the money is definitely in commodity trading. That said, I never actually did rares trading. Not one single rares route; ever. I still did very well in Hauler and up. Only the Sidewinder > Hauler felt like a real slog. It's hard to get the snowball rolling at first.

I plan to make some updates to the guide tomorrow. I'm going to clarify the notion of "HIGH" doesn't always mean "best", and I'll also cover what I call "nomad trading". I might also talk a little bit about the "bulk trading tax".
 
Why not use 3rd party tools and get a nice route in 5 minutes ?
Er... the OP says in the first paragraph:
...The principles in this guide can be equally applied to using 3rd party crowdsourced trading tools.

So, there's no reason not to. Some people just don't want to though, and would rather play the game within the game. It's a matter of personal choice. I use Slopey's. I understand anyone not wanting to though. And even with a tool, you still need to know what is a good route and how to best exploit it.
 
Adding to what @PhilHibbs said immediately above, even the 3rd party tools will point you at bad routes unless you know what to look for and why. This is IMO one reason we have so many people crying "Trading was nerfed!" in the past few days. They get a "best" route from a 3rd party tool and don't understand that the data is more than a day old, or that the supply/demand quantities involved are so low that only the first person who hauls 500 tons is going see a good profit from the route and everyone else will see terrible profit. So: understanding the principles of the guide will help you filter out the junk _even in the 3rd party tools_.
 
My guess is that:

A. You might have been a little too aggressive with the MIN slider for Population. As in, had it near the 80% mark instead of near the 65% mark. Results will vary depending on where exactly you are in the populated region. Certainly around Achenar (Empire) or Sol (Federation) for a good 200 Ly in every direction you'd see a LOT of green/orange dots with the population MIN set at roughly the 66% point.

B. If you checked literally only one system for the actual commodities, you're not.... Um... doing it right? Not every _candidate_ will be a "good" station for a trading route. It's just a "likely suspect". The steps in the guide are to filter out the worst of the noise and instead enable you to focus on a small set of candidates. These candidates, as a group, will be stronger than just throwing darts at the board and randomly landing on stations. But they're just _candidates_. You still have to apply some elbow grease from there.

I checked several stations and never found something worth the time until I noticed that the sun was going down and I had wasted a whole afternoon searching for a trade route, when in fact I could have made 2.6 million credits by just running my regular rare trade route with my 80 tons Asp once back and forth.

So my question stands: Is this really worth the time you have to put in to actually find a place to start regular trading?

Rares have the advantage that they spawn for every CMDR individually, so no other CMDR in the system will diminish your supply.

If I find a regular trade route, though... (probably after days of searching that I could have spent better making money), how long can I run it until it dries up? I want to fly a 200 ton Clipper.

A rare trade route guarantees profit. It takes longer, yes, but the profit is worth it. I just don't see this system working out for me.

The OP clearly stated "discard anything below a very large or huge population". So any normally "Large" population is to be discarded. I did exactly that.

BTW: I am currently in Pandamonium, a "wealthy, huge population agricultural/industrial economy".

All commodities are in medium supply. So apparently, population size says nothing about supply and demand in 1.104.

Zaschka_Ring.png


Commodity_market.jpg


As long as I won't be able to access the latest available commodity market overview for each station via the system map, I am not going to hunt for trade routes.

It takes up way too much time and is extremely frustrating.
 
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