This came from the first manual written by Robert Holdstock. Curiously we may have not yet seen a full-scale dredger or perhaps they operate as fleets (but oh my god - 40 miles long). The 70,000 is direct from the manual.
The manual wasn't written by Robert Holdstock. The novella was written by Robert Holdstock.

David Braben is a big fan of Traveller the RPG.

I've not heard of 'player submitted lore' that became official. I'm sure some has, but I'm skeptical of anything from the very early period being made official through a process like that. The official documentation was created by the small group I mentioned before and refined internally.
 
The manual wasn't written by Robert Holdstock. The novella was written by Robert Holdstock.

David Braben is a big fan of Traveller the RPG.

I've not heard of 'player submitted lore' that became official. I'm sure some has, but I'm skeptical of anything from the very early period being made official through a process like that. The official documentation was created by the small group I mentioned before and refined internally.
Interesting. I thought he did the manual and novella. Good to know.
 
TB167 just says Tau Ceti was the first colony. Just searched the TB spreadsheet and only mention of Alpha Centauri I can see was about the Hutton Orbital Mug:

It’s @Comandante ’s “Alpha Centauri (failed colony before Tau Ceti)” that interests me. What is the source for that “failed colony before Tau Ceti”?

It would make sense in physical terms-it is the nearest system to Sol, so logically should have been visited/settled first, but I’m not aware of any ED lore that says so (which in itself is interesting!) @Allen Stroud : care to comment on this Allen? 🙂
Apologies - I was just ordering a list from a previous post. Us developers - if I see an unordered list I HAVE to pipe it through sort!

In the words of Manuel from Faulty Towers... "I know nooooottthhing"!

POST EDIT - here's the link: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-10041796
 
@Rochester : you’re more knowledgeable than I on Milton. I had assumed in that hypothesis that Alpha Cent/Eden was the end of the “personal journey”, but maybe it was the beginning? So what does Milton say about Adam & Eve’s expulsion from Eden & their subsequent “personal journey”?
I’m no expert! But from memory in JM Paradise Lost, when Adam and Eve are expelled from Eden they simply walk off into the wilderness.

Once they ‘fall’ they obtain the ability to ‘comprehend’; ‘reason’ etc, and are then shown the future; eg God literally explains everything to them; prior to that they and Eden existed out of time, the fall effectively establishes the movement of time. How Milton writes it is actually rather metaphysical, very trippy.

The archangel Michael shows Adam the future on top of a hill in Eden, then later tells him in person, Eve has it explained to her by God in a dream…so when they leave they are effectively ’happy’ in the knowledge of what future they build. No real location is described.

There is a rather trippy part where Adam goes forward through time, and effectively sees every city / continent of earth, even ‘El Dorado’…


The most astonishing locations are IMOP those described in Lucifers journey which are cosmological. He falls from heaven following the war, to hell, then back out of hell via a ‘bridge’ or viaduct through Chaos (IMOP this viaduct is on the celestial sphere and he travels to the equator but that just my impression); he then gets off and wanders the Crystalline Sphere, goes past Limbo, then finds the apex, steps on the golden stairs, then looks down to the interior of the sphere and sees ‘everything’ then flies down through the stars via Ophiuchus, he even sees ‘other’ alien Edens, then towards our Sol System to the surface of our sun, then to Eden, then later back to hell, all before lunch(!).

The book is actually full of some very obscure locations! I do recommend it.

Note El Dorado was also a key influence on Milton on writing Paradise Lost - amongst others.
 
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Apologies - I was just ordering a list from a previous post. Us developers - if I see an unordered list I HAVE to pipe it through sort!

In the words of Manuel from Faulty Towers... "I know nooooottthhing"!

POST EDIT - here's the link: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-10041796
I suspect someone was hoping for something other than the official in-game system description. Though, why? In-game sourcing is pretty damn authoritative. The planet was Eden and after we realized Proxima Centauri was problematic due to radiation and flares so building a colony was abandoned as not realistic (per description water was detected in 2038). All that is left is a research base (hopefully we can one day visit it in-game). Unless you like being crispy critters I don't advise visiting Eden for extended stays without sufficient protection. In real-life this problem has already been observed recently in 2021 when a flare was visible to the naked eye on Earth and also previously in 2016.

To my knowledge, that is primary source of the claim. I mean if FDev choose to highlight it, possibly it is important. My post citing it is here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-10042210
 
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To my knowledge, that is primary source of the claim. I mean if FDev choose to highlight it, possibly it is important. My post citing it is here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-10042210
That doesnt suggest there was a failed colony, only that water was detected and that later efforts were difficult. The date applies to the detection, which could indicate a probe or telescope found water.

There is no documentation to my knowledge of a failed colony. So, based on the evidence provided, I think this is a false conclusion.
 
Quick questions @Allen Stroud :

Augustus Brenquith "glistening legacy" probably doesn't happen until first commercial hyperspace (Faraway) in the 2800s. Is that reasonable to assume. Granted he sounded rich. Also, is there perhaps a connection to a certain cyborg barman with the story "..All that Glisters.."? The phrasing here seems almost too coincidental not to be intentional. Jaques per "..All that Glisters" was "some three hundred years". That could put him as from 2800s or 2900s. If so, seems human colonies were hand picked.

Relevant text:

THE ATMOSPHERE inside the bar was so thick it could be sliced with a laser. A fog of smoke and bad breath hung in the air like a cloud, and the thumping strains of the ancient jukebox assaulted the ears of anyone still sober enough to listen. The oft repeated sequences of one of Roving Eye's early works rang round the room, filling the ears with deadening sound from before the space age.


The barman wondered why the music was still so popular. It was several centuries old and yet it was revived at regular fifty-year intervals so much for the vagaries of fashion. As the barman moved methodically down the line of glasses, filling or polishing as required, the garish lights gleamed off his polished chrome features. Jaques was not old enough to remember the original band, though several regulars assumed that he was. He had been born some three hundred years before, and had been a cyborg for over two hundred and seventy of those years. Sometimes he wondered if there was anything human left at all.
...
More relevant text:
"I guess it will take me about another fifty years to buy up the rest of this place and another ten to fit it out with enough drive engines." Andre's choking splutter distracted the cyborg for a moment. He wiped the beer from his jacket and the bar as he continued, "I've got a hankering to see the universe again, you see. I think I'll do what Augustus Brenquith did and fly off into the unknown and explore new systems. But I like people as well, so in sixty or so years time there will be an invitation going out, anyone who wants to come along can join me on a long trip. "If you're still around and interested, come and sign up. I never forget a face."

Jaques means either "supplanter" or in reference to Shakespeare's "As you like it" is "a disillusioned and satirical observer of life". Jaques and Brenquith are same person? This may even extend to Peter Jameson who grandchildren received the letter gifting the ship originally. I believe that trend continues with Elite Dangerous.

More info on Brenquith:
 
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Quick questions @Allen Stroud :

Augustus Brenquith "glistening legacy" probably doesn't happen until first commercial hyperspace (Faraway) in the 2800s. Is that reasonable to assume. Granted he sounded rich. Also, is there perhaps a connection to a certain cyborg barman with the story "..All that Glisters.."? The phrasing here seems almost too coincidental not to be intentional. Jaques per "..All that Glisters" was "some three hundred years". That could put him as from 2800s or 2900s. If so, seems human colonies were hand picked.

Relevant text:


...
More relevant text:


Jaques means either "supplanter" or in reference to Shakespeare's "As you like it" is "a disillusioned and satirical observer of life". Jaques and Brenquith are same person? This may even extend to Peter Jameson who grandchildren received the letter gifting the ship originally. I believe that trend continues with Elite Dangerous.

More info on Brenquith:
I'm very aware of Brenquith and Jacques.

I've not heard of Brenquith's 'glistering legacy'. That specific phrase was not applied to him in anything I worked on. Where did you find it?

"All that Glister's" does indeed have the Brenquith reference with Jacques reminiscing about him. That is as far as the connection goes. I am pretty sure the author was using the sentence to connect the text to existing Frontier Gazetteer information as the story was a Frontier Anthology story.

Jacques and Brenquith are not the same person. Brenquith's legend is intentionally imprecisely defined. I do have a proposed date for it, as suggested in the work I submitted to Frontier, but that's for them to publish if they choose. I will say this, the exploration events attributed to Brenquith are far older that you are suggesting. The start of his journey was a long time before the other elements being discussed here.

There is no connection between Jacques and Jameson. Worth reading Roland Barthes 'The Death of the Author' to get a comment on this kind of extrapolated criticism. Writing in the late 1960s, Barthes suggests that critics of the time are too obsessed with finding authorial intention and therefore miss the essential qualities of the text they are studying (in hand). As far as I know, the writers of Elite fiction generally weren't trying to reference Shakespeare. You might have one or two passages of intertextual depth, but in most of the Elite fiction, that wasn't a thing. EDIT: I will add, Massey was probably the most likely to add something allegorical or metaphorical. His work does have that kind of weight in places.

Worth bearing in mind that linking all of the different legends of the Elite universe together goes against David Braben's intention. By linking everything, we make the narrative smaller, not bigger. Yes, there are links, but not in the way you are attempting to construct a sweeping "Skywalker" style narrative. That is exactly what we didn't want to do with all the elements being created.

Again, I'll make the point, the game is the primary text. So, an analysis of Jacques would (for me) start with all the Elite Dangerous references to him and then move to "All that Glisters" to see what was drawn from that to connect with the primary text narrative.
 
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I've not heard of Brenquith's 'glistering legacy'. That specific phrase was not applied to him in anything I worked on. Where did you find it?
You have to understand this one caught me off guard. I merely wanted all that was in the First Encounters journals to have a enough legitimacy to be viable for two purposes: Holdstock version of Raxxla and peace with the Thargoids. These depend upon Sohalian Fever and Mycoid being used initially defensively not offensively (specifically against the threat of artificial intelligence, androids, and to a lesser degree cyborgs). We needed the real possibility that the Alliance did actually deliver the antidote . There is also the "Another Species?" journal entry which I believe is where the Guardian narrative originates (really hoping for a narrative plot twist eventually forcing an alliance between Thargoids and Humanity against the Guardian Civil AI and the rogue Human AI from the end of Nemorensis). Anyway, this was on tourist beacon #216 "Ackwada Discovery" towards the end of the second paragraph cited below:

The discovery aroused considerable interest amongst archeologists on Earth at the time while the capsule was in transit to the New Delhi University there was heated debate as to whether the artefact should be opened or not. When the capsule was studied, the seal was seen to be broken, so the matter was resolved. Inside the capsule was a message crystal with the log of the second five years of Augustus Brenquith's solitary search for new worlds, his 'glittering legacy', included in the list of planetary systems that he had stumbled upon was that of Ackwada.
 
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Okay, so are you saying there is no reference to Brenquith's 'glistering legacy'? You created that reference?

The 'glittering legacy' is from the Ackwada reference in the Frontier Gazetteer. This was written by Kathy inson (surname strangely censored). The Jacques story was by David Massey. Massey also wrote entries in the Gazetteer. Whilst these were definitely read by the authors, I wouldn't link 'glitter' with 'glister' directly.

The Jacques story is an intertextual paradise of exposition. There are lots of connections to different ideas, and historical snippets specifically because of Jacques' long lifespan. My criticism of the text would be that Massey was trying to balance that without establishing a sage character who could effectively be seen as the font of all knowledge in the fictional universe. The way Jacques' conscious memories are linked to his perspective and how the data feed of his cybernetic mind is something he's not keen on at times are part of that as is his small perspective, reminiscing about the war days, but then shifting to a personal story, not a complete encyclopedic overview. Potentially, Jacques can be a problem character for the ongoing narrative. His knowledge of the past could supersede the established canon and should provide answers to mysteries that occurred in his extended lifetime, unless there is a reason he can't. Fairly easy to establish the latter in his lifetime. Data stores burn out, etc.
 
Okay, so are you saying there is no reference to Brenquith's 'glistering legacy'? You created that reference?
Forgive me, that was dyslexia striking. The reference is "glittering legacy" in the beacon vs glisters in David Massey's titled story "..All that Glisters" that specifically mentioned Augustus Brenquith. The two terms, however, are absolutely synonymous. It is early where I live and I haven't had coffee. You may be interested in newsletter#61 (attached).

Info on glitter vs glister:
 

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Forgive me, that was dyslexia striking. The reference is "glittering legacy" in the beacon vs glisters in David Massey's titled story "..All that Glisters" that specifically mentioned Augustus Brenquith. The two terms, however, are absolutely synonymous. It is early where I live and I haven't had coffee.
Sure, happy to forgive any honest mistake. Yes, I agree the two words have linked etymology and meaning. However, as I've indicated, I wouldn't link Brenquith and Jacques through the use of similar words by two different authors. If they were a link, you have to ask, why not use the same word?

Additionally, Brenquith's adventures are celebrated as incredible achievements. That suggests he was either a pre-hyperspace explorer or a very early hyperspace explorer. The 'Griffin' mentioned as being his ship is not connected to the later 'Griffin' class in Frontier First Encounters.
 
Does anyone have the clip or text from Frontier Developments (possibly this was Braben or Michael Brookes but unsure) discussing what the Elite logo actually is? I am pretty sure it wasn't a phoenix but a griffin/gryphon or some creature vaguely reminiscent of something from Sumeria or Egypt. That discussion might be important. I am 99.9% sure Jaques is intentionally named because he is a supplanter of a character that is more important. The Hebrew origins are detailed here and various sites discussing baby names (this may have been relevant in the Shakespeare play that prominently featured a character with the same spelling of the name Jaques but haven't read it). Relevant text:

Jaques is a variation of the French Jacques (which is related to the English James), which means “supplanter” or one who is lesser but replaces one who is greater. There is also the possibility that Jaques is derived from the Hebrew Jacob, or “may God protect.” Of course, those seem to be contradictory… had God protected the greater one, he would have never been supplanted.

By the way the pronunciation is as follows (also from same webpage):
And, by the way, not pronounced like “Jack” or “Jacques”… no, pronounced two syllables, as either “JAY-kweez” or “JACK-wis” (has to be two syllables for the scansion to work right).
 
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I am 99.9% sure Jaques which is intentionally named because he is a supplanter of a character that is more important. The Hebrew origins are detailed here and various sites discussing baby names (this may have been relevant in the Shakespeare play that prominently featured a character with the same spelling of the name Jaques but haven't read it).
My reading (if there is any significance in the name choice) is that the name is in reference to his physiology as a cybernetically enhanced individual. The 'supplanting' is of his own human physiology within the story, which he mentions by describing how different parts of him have different origins. I wouldn't read that as being any more significant than that - it is an internal reference to the story, not some wider narrative related to the fictional history.
 
There is no connection between the origin of the logo and Augustus Brenquith.
Just humor me for a little bit on this (if it is indeed nothing it will be interesting nonetheless). Yes, you were instrumental in a HUGE portion of the lore but that doesn't mean Braben and the team told you everything. Raxxla per Codex is either something like cosmic enlightenment and/or "a definite place that holds a mysterious secret". Let's just see where this goes because Frontier Developments thought it important enough to link the two on newsletter#61 in the lead up to the big jump of Jaques Station (see https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-10043187 where I have it attached). Ackwada could be a great deal more important. Brenquith is also linked into Astrogator Tours in Bedaho via the beacons there. Our ships all use the Astrogator console. If the link is something actually important (and it absolutely may be nothing instead), we need to see where this takes us. I just cannot ignore repeated attempts to at least connect Jaques and Brenquith repeatedly.

Remember we are told about golden opportunities and not to ignore them. This has that same kind of potential.

ATTACHMENT-01

All you need to know is that my organisation has a very specific remit: to seek out those who have the potential to become real movers and shakers, those precious few with the talent to mould and shape the galaxy around them, to create change on a grand scale.

But now get ready for lesson number one. When a golden opportunity comes your way – and trust me, they’re few and far between, my friend – reach out and grab it with both hands. Sometimes it’s clever to ask questions, and sometimes it’s not. This time it’s not.

We find them, and then we test them. Consider this your test.

Take the ship. Take the money. No strings, no hidden clauses. Do with them what you will. Blaze your own trail.

Impress me, perhaps you’ll learn more.

A Friend
 
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