Same reason they've never rigged cargo containers to explode upon being pirated.
First look: THE SCYTHE!!! (New Thargoid ship)
Listen to log Gateshead 2, very closely at the end. Tell me that’s anything other than a Thargoid.
I really don’t think there’s any doubt. I’ve been listening to specific ones from the Dedicant for a log entry, and this one is just… yeah.
My current theory is that Thargoid soldiers might likely be 'optimized'* people harvested from escape pods and elsewhere.
O7,
* a System Shock reference, but why not? The old Holdstock lore was most certainly retconned.
O7,
* a System Shock reference, but why not? The old Holdstock lore was most certainly retconned.
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{in the context of the Thargoid war taking a tiny fraction of the bubble, and the balance being adjusted to push back}
Thargoid strategic layer: rebalanced to stabilise around 20 LY, rather than very slowly spreading to 30-35 LY around each maelstrom, only affects a small number of systems clearly easily detectable on the map, but even 1% was "too many".
Thargoid Scythes: can interdict anyone carrying passengers or living cargo out to possibly around 75 LY from a Maelstrom - including passengers or cargo unrelated to the Thargoid conflict itself - which introduces kill-or-be-killed encounters to about 20% of the inhabited bubble, including thousands of systems which were never at any risk of the Thargoid strategic layer getting that far.
With what we now know about the Scythe, Frontier's behaviour in this light looks even stranger.
Thargoid strategic layer: rebalanced to stabilise around 20 LY, rather than very slowly spreading to 30-35 LY around each maelstrom, only affects a small number of systems clearly easily detectable on the map, but even 1% was "too many".
Thargoid Scythes: can interdict anyone carrying passengers or living cargo out to possibly around 75 LY from a Maelstrom - including passengers or cargo unrelated to the Thargoid conflict itself - which introduces kill-or-be-killed encounters to about 20% of the inhabited bubble, including thousands of systems which were never at any risk of the Thargoid strategic layer getting that far.
I don't think it's that bad--I've been chasing Scythes for two days now, their top speed seems to be somewhere between Cyclops and Basilisk. Around 500 m/s. Dolphins, Orcas, Phantoms and maybe Cutters have no problem outrunning them. The FSD disruptor missiles are not significantly faster than the Scythes themselves, my estimation is somewhere around 580 m/s. An Orca, Krait MKII or a Phantom with the v1 FSD is completely safe from Scythes, even if the disruptor missile hits; 2 seconds reboot time is nothing.
As for fighting them, Azimuth AX multicannons are excellent against them and ECM fries the hatchbreaker reliably once it has attached. Scythes seem to do mainly shield damage and negligible hull damage with their cannons (Thargoid version of cytoscramblers?), and moderate module damage (watch your canopy!). They are essentially pirate ships that try to get your cargo, not destroy you, and not harder to fight than average NPC-s in a High RES.
Overall, I think they're well balanced and add some well-needed spice to the passenger missions/CSAR/CASEVAC work.
Here's the ship setup I use for fishing for Scythes. Can catch 6 in a row before needing to rearm.
This fits in exactly to my point:
- a ship expecting to face Thargoids has no real problem now that the initial surprise has worn off, they just add interest (and it is a bunch of new and interesting behaviour!), and as you say are pretty well-balanced
- how well is an unarmed T-9 slave trader (expecting some easily-evaded human pirate) or a lightly engineered Asp/Python/Anaconda doing tourist beacon passenger runs (expecting no interdictions at all, and equipped with normal rather than AX multicannons) going to do? And certainly no ECM, which outside the Thargoid war is probably the least useful possible utility to fit...
Regardless of its design - and, to be clear, I'm not all saying they shouldn't have done it! - the Scythe's large patrol radius brings the Thargoid war from affecting ~1% of the bubble to affecting ~20% of it. On a "hey, these Thargoids might actually be dangerous" level, that's great - and there's still 80% of the bubble where everyone can run their unarmed traders as before. But why, then, repeatedly nerf the Thargoid strategic advance so that they can't even get as far as 1% of the bubble?
How far outside the war zone do the Scythes operate? Are there reliable numbers? The interactions I had were all one jump out of the Maelstrom bubble I was running in, and ended in a dead Scythe and me jumping to the rescue ship peacefully; I have read horror stories about chain interdictions, but not encountered that (yet?).
About the danger: Not so much, methinks. I think they are way less of a threat than the Glaives (which themselves are not that much of a danger if you don't decide to fight, act quickly enough and fly a reasonably fast ship). Granted, I came prepared for them. In my experiments I was running an unshielded Phantom with 64t of cargo capacity, a collector limpet controller, a fuel scoop, three MRPs and the rest engineered armor (just shy of 2k) along with four Azimuth MCs, and stacked with a bunch of escape pod missions.
I didn't lose more than three or four percent armor to them, and the MCs quickly melted the Scythe. I didn't bother with an ECM for the hatch breakers, I just collected up my pods after the Scythe was history.
I have not yet tried to run from one, and I don't exactly know how passengers (rather than injured in pods) react and what that means for the missions, but a properly outfitted ship should be able to deal with them even with the "normal" enhanced AXMCs you can buy for money.
At least with pod cargo missions, I would always fight them. They are not too hard to kill.
About the danger: Not so much, methinks. I think they are way less of a threat than the Glaives (which themselves are not that much of a danger if you don't decide to fight, act quickly enough and fly a reasonably fast ship). Granted, I came prepared for them. In my experiments I was running an unshielded Phantom with 64t of cargo capacity, a collector limpet controller, a fuel scoop, three MRPs and the rest engineered armor (just shy of 2k) along with four Azimuth MCs, and stacked with a bunch of escape pod missions.
I didn't lose more than three or four percent armor to them, and the MCs quickly melted the Scythe. I didn't bother with an ECM for the hatch breakers, I just collected up my pods after the Scythe was history.
I have not yet tried to run from one, and I don't exactly know how passengers (rather than injured in pods) react and what that means for the missions, but a properly outfitted ship should be able to deal with them even with the "normal" enhanced AXMCs you can buy for money.
At least with pod cargo missions, I would always fight them. They are not too hard to kill.
I wouldn't say it's a kill-or-be-killed situation, more like kill-or-possibly-fail-a-mission. As long as the ship isn't complete paper (i.e. shields that can take a few hits, some point defence and the default lightweight hull has been either replaced or engineered) it should be able to get away intact, especially if it's a large ship that doesn't get mass-locked.
On their first time, it's going to be shock and awe, maybe a failed mission. After doing the homework and adjusting their operations either by using a different ship or moving further from the warzone, they'll be fine
I wholeheartedly agree. This stalemate with no invasions and almost all alerts being cleared by Saturday evening is getting a bit boring. I hoped that with update 16 the thargs will beef up their war effort and we'll go to panic mode again, just as we did when the maelstroms arrived. Alas, this has not been the case.
It feels too much like Frontier has just entirely given up with interim balancing for the war part of the war. The thing that is supposed to keep people entertained.
From a pure gameplay standpoint, I completely lost interest when invasions began to disappear, and the damaged port scenario was removed as a result for evac pilots. Some RP went into it with stopping to do AX in favor of non-violent activities. (That would make Scythes interesting to contend with.)
Tissue sampling still stands as the culprit. And the, above-mentioned, lack of ability for the Maelstroms to attack. While I’m intrigued where the story is going with the two main recent developlents, doesn’t feel like there’s much of a war going on. Instead it’s actually just become a spreadsheet game where the only choice is which systems to ‘re
Whoever thought of sampling as a war activity didn’t put so much thought into how effective it should be.
Very much so. I’ve always assumed that whoever balanced the numbers forgot about either the universal limpet controllers + bigger corrosion resistance cargo racks that have been added since sampling Thargoids was introduced or simply didn’t consider players optimising past the intended sampling gameplay - if each run only brought back a few samples it would be balanced with other activities.
Players always find ways to optimize fun out the game. And then complain about the grind
The oversampling problem could be fixed by allowing one sample per thargoid ship, but I have no idea how easy it could be to actually implement. Eg, might have an annoying side effect of allowing to hatchbreak a cargo hold or attach a repair/fuel transfer limpet to a ship only once.
You shoot and you become your own neutron star fsd booster. Backwards!Your power distributor will also start plotting to have you mysteriously strangled at night.
I would assume the power plant would crap out first.
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I suppose that’s a point to be considered.
Still, if you ever were to fire those weapons, the power distributor will be the first thing to think twice about its owner.
I would like to know how many players are actually involved in the spreadsheet/sampling malarky. I suspect its relatively few larger player groups/squadrons, and then I wonder if they could be convinced to lay off for a bit and allow the Invasions to creep back over a few weeks?Players always find ways to optimize fun out the game. And then complain about the grind
The oversampling problem could be fixed by allowing one sample per thargoid ship, but I have no idea how easy it could be to actually implement. Eg, might have an annoying side effect of allowing to hatchbreak a cargo hold or attach a repair/fuel transfer limpet to a ship only once.
I know, I'm being a bit naïve...but if they could be persuaded that whilst 'winning' might be nice, 'losing' is more fun, in terms of gameplay anyway.
Herding cats comes to mind
Unfortunately, I doubt that'll get anywhere - tried to convince some of the Alert samplers to move to Controls once and they weren't interested. I don't think it would even help much now - Alerts are just too easy, a lot of the progress comes from evac missions or Orthrus/Scythe hunting anyway and they're likely all going to be cleared this evening.I would like to know how many players are actually involved in the spreadsheet/sampling malarky. I suspect its relatively few larger player groups/squadrons, and then I wonder if they could be convinced to lay off for a bit and allow the Invasions to creep back over a few weeks?
I know, I'm being a bit naïve...but if they could be persuaded that whilst 'winning' might be nice, 'losing' is more fun, in terms of gameplay anyway.
Herding cats comes to mind
