Do you want ED 2 or an Expansion?

[xzanfr]

As I understand it (which means I could be wrong), Frontier did not come away from the kickstarter with a good and happy outcome. This put them off doing a kickstarter or crowdfunding ever again.

And us backers came away with a tiny fraction of what was promised, having to fight for pretty much everything else no matter how small (for example the KS decal) and with horrible polo t-shirts. FD lost a lot of trust.
No way would I ever do a kickstarter for anything ever again.

 

[ZeeWolf]

As I understand it (which means I could be wrong), Frontier did not come away from the kickstarter with a good and happy outcome. This put them off doing a kickstarter or crowdfunding ever again.

Planet Coaster was initially crowdfunded in part, due to the relative success of ED. ED was funded in part by the Kickstarter and ongoing campaign that had people purchasing the game during the Alpha/Beta stages, at a very high price. Frontier changed their business model from third party developer to first party publisher, I'm not sure what a more "happy outcome" looks like to you? For them, they probably think it was a good time. I don't think they would want to do it again though, the landscape of crowdfunding has massively changed.

Long term - its not a model that's looking very good for the industry or customers - with frequent misuse and the likes of Star Citizen turning it into a post decade long "Rise of the Robots" style hype and pre-order model, with minimal support/accountability and customers being low-balled & drip-fed a less than "what was promised" unstable product and being told they "don't understand game development" when they come to the realisation they have spent the best years of their lives not playing the game they initially expected yet paying more than they would have had the developer tried to make a shrink wrapped product that stands up on it's own merits for consumer review in the first place.

 

[Phoenix_Dfire]

Even if there was a re-write

Do you want Fdev to make ED 2 or another expansion for ED 1?

ED is almost 10 years old and it has aged a lot. The graphics don't hold a candle to current gen space sims and space themed games. So it would be best for Fdev to keep the good features and learn from other space games for a sequel (Elite 5).

Update: gameplay and comparison, recommendation.

That's the thing. You don't need to call it Elite Dangerous 2. With it being a live service game, as long as the game doesn't have any fundamental changes (like the removal of super cruise or things of that level), as long as the player experience is undisturbed, you can upgrade the client (Like they did with Odyssey with various levels of succsess) and the back end (which they do a lot of the time anyway) without having to do a new release.

In fact, when Horizons was done in 2015, people were asking DB about ED 2 and he said (and I'm paraphrasing here) 'There is an Elite: Dangerous 2, its called Horizons'. That makes us on ED 4 at this point.

On a serious note; one of the reasons that the Doom threads have been getting more numerous is because of the lack of assurance from FDev about the future of the game. Although the yearly statement seemed positive, it was the statement to the shareholders that has set off alarm bells which seemed refer to ED in the past tense. There's been nothing from FDev to counter that, especially when the number of CGs, Live streams and CMs have decreased over the last year.

Ironically, When you look back on what we've had this year with the Thargoid war; it has been a huge amount of content. The problem is that because it is so Thargoid heavy, a lot of people who are not into that kind of thing haven't seen anything new that they can do, and so they complain. (I'm one that's been really enjoying the content but I do understand where they're coming from). We will have to wait until update 17 is out, and I suspect there will be an update 18 before the end of the year or just after it, but until we get news of this 'Major Feature Rewite', we'll just have to put up with the usual DOOM (tm) threads turning up everywhere.

 

[aRJay]

With less pain, and less grind, and better manoeuvrability, and making both ships and ground stuff feel nicer. And improving the feel of the game is something people want (as well as less painful grind). So it's win/win.

What is the "reward" in any computer game that has ranks and "money"? Higher ranks, more money?

Higher ranks works until the ranks become silly and money starts to loose its appeal once it becomes impossible to spend it on new things without pointless duplication.

After all even if you are Supreme Elite Overgod of the Seidab Empire do you really need 40 Imperial Cutters on every Fleet Carrier in addition to trillions in the bank?

 

[Old Duck]

* Made by someone not frontier - ideally the oolite dev's or egosoft.

Everyone knows I love Egosoft, but Ian makes a good point - what's stopping Egosoft from implementing the best features of Elite into their X series of games? To be honest, I think I'd rather have an X5 that's closer to ED than an ED2 that's closer to X4. I blame those cute Teladi.

The point is that Egosoft could, if they chose to, build their own Stellar Forge and and planetary landings and whatever else that you and I miss from Elite when playing X4. There's no need for them to acquire Elite's IP to do this, unless Stellar Forge tech is somehow patent encumbered. As for things like multiplayer, I'm like you, I'd much rather have a single-player game with well-written NPCs, which is one of the reasons I do prefer X4 over ED.

Regarding single-player vs multiplayer, that's why I'd personally prefer a new version of Elite that's actually a bit different that Elite Dangerous, kinda like a Squadron 42 is supposed to be compared to Star Citizen (yes, I know both titles are concepts only). There's no reason Elite 5 needs to replace ED, but rather it could be a different title that coexists with ED, with ED focused on multiplayer BGS gameplay, and Elite 5 focused on offline NPC-driven gameplay. I'm sure some people in this forum would buy both, and people like me who won't be spending any more money on ED might just pay AAA money for Elite 5 as described.

Of course it's not going to happen, none of it, so this is all just "dreaming of Jeanie with the light brown hair, borne like a vapor on the summer air."

 

[zimms]

[...]

Of course it's not going to happen, none of it, so this is all just "dreaming of Jeanie with the light brown hair, borne like a vapor on the summer air."

"Jeanny, quit livin' on dreams" - Falco

I see no real need for ED2, adding/reworking Elite itself is probably the better option overall. But I have to agree with others who've already said an Odyssey sized expansion doesn't look very likely (for the foreseeable future).

 

[Fizzatron]

It's not apples and apples though is it?

If you mean that TF2 is seven years older than Elite, then maybe. Otherwise you're shifting the goalposts in relation to the point I was making.

 

[Fizzatron]

As I understand it (which means I could be wrong), Frontier did not come away from the kickstarter with a good and happy outcome. This put them off doing a kickstarter or crowdfunding ever again.

I believe you would be wrong. The Elite Dangerous kickstarter was one of the most successful run at that point.

 

[Alien]

As I understand it (which means I could be wrong), Frontier did not come away from the kickstarter with a good and happy outcome. This put them off doing a kickstarter or crowdfunding ever again.

When I say good an happy outcome[1] I am talking about from Frontier's point of view, not my own. And it is pure speculation, as I have no idea what Frontier thought about the Elite kickstarter.
And while Frontier did sell exclusive features for Planet Coaster (such as your own foundation stone that would appear in everyone's game), it wasn't crowdfunded in the normal sense of the word.

[1] I wasn't how best to describe what I meant, so went with "good and happy outcome".

 

[Old Duck]

If you mean that TF2 is seven years older than Elite, then maybe. Otherwise you're shifting the goalposts in relation to the point I was making.

Some of my favorite games are the older games. I much prefer original Overwatch, for example, and I just walked away when the devs replaced it with Overwatch 2 (as did lots of people based on reviews).

Speaking of, I like Horizons 3.8 more than 4.0, and you constantly give people hell for that. So which is it - is old good or bad?

 

[Cosmo]

That's the thing. You don't need to call it Elite Dangerous 2. With it being a live service game, as long as the game doesn't have any fundamental changes (like the removal of super cruise or things of that level), as long as the player experience is undisturbed, you can upgrade the client (Like they did with Odyssey with various levels of succsess) and the back end (which they do a lot of the time anyway) without having to do a new release.

ED has a reputation of a steep learning curve, heavy grind, (boring) long travel times, mostly similar empty planets, a mile wide and an inch deep, the graphics are dated like a last-gen game. It's difficult to overcome this stigma. Fdev could publish big DLC like No Man's Sky. NMS had 28+ free big DLC since launch. However, Fdev usually charges money for DLC (expansions) and they don't finish it quickly like Hello Games. At the moment: No Man's Sky has 11,294 In-Game on Steam. ED has only 2,476 on Steam. Those numbers are small compared to Starfield which has 70,010 players on Steam and a bustling modding community on Nexus. Over 6 million copies of Starfield were sold already since launch. SF and ED are not in the same genre, but they have much overlap.

If Fdev were to go the NMS route I doubt it would make ED popular again. Odyssey brought in a new crowd who like EVA, FPS stuff, but the number of active players remains small. Hard simulation games attract small audiences. So imo it would be better to learn from ED's mistakes to make a great sequel that appeals to a wider audience.

 

[ZeeWolf]

When I say good an happy outcome[1] I am talking about from Frontier's point of view, not my own. And it is pure speculation, as I have no idea what Frontier thought about the Elite kickstarter.
And while Frontier did sell exclusive features for Planet Coaster (such as your own foundation stone that would appear in everyone's game), it wasn't crowdfunded in the normal sense of the word.

[1] I wasn't how best to describe what I meant, so went with "good and happy outcome".

I'm quite sure Frontier are much happier with the result of the ED KS than the Oliver Twins were with 'Dizzy returns'

 

[ubermick]

And here I thought Frontier were developing this game.

On the bright side, I'm sure they'll soon listen to the current blaaaarghing and make everything more expensive.

Phew, that's a relief. According to these forums, Frontier weren't developing the game at all, and were fiddling while it burned.

 

[Fizzatron]

And us backers came away with a tiny fraction of what was promised, having to fight for pretty much everything else no matter how small (for example the KS decal) and with horrible polo t-shirts.

I'm a backer and I can't see how anyone can say I got a tiny fraction of what was promised, bearing in mind what Frontier said they would initially deliver vs what would be coming later as paid expansions. Are you confusing your backing of Star Citizen or something?

 

[Northpin]

ED is almost 10 years old and it has aged a lot. The graphics don't hold a candle to current gen space sims and space themed games.

This post makes sense only if you're still playing Legacy
Else ED got a gfx refresh in 2021 and i regard it's graphics as being quite nice.

I cannot really make any comparison with "current gen space sims and space themed games" cause i dont think there are any that can compete directly with ED, which is a genre in itself

Edit: and to answer to the title question.... I really wish Odyssey was a standalone game in the Elite universe, maybe running in the very same universe as Horizons - as it actually happened till the U14 split

 

[Fizzatron]

Some of my favorite games are the older games. I much prefer original Overwatch, for example, and I just walked away when the devs replaced it with Overwatch 2 (as did lots of people based on reviews).

Speaking of, I like Horizons 3.8 more than 4.0, and you constantly give people hell for that. So which is it - is old good or bad?

Old or new is irrelevant was my point to the statement made. I never made any claim that old or new was good or bad.

 

[bangermsuk]

expansion if it was done properly, not like the odessey fiasco of dropping a land mass around the planet without checking if the buildings have been updated to confisated the diffrent heights of land masses

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Everyone knows I love Egosoft, but Ian makes a good point - what's stopping Egosoft from implementing the best features of Elite into their X series of games?

I like X4 a lot but looking at what Elite has and does well that it doesn't also have:
- planetary landings
- multiplayer
- excessively large scale
I can't see a way that any of those could be included without making what's already there considerably worse.

It does feel that there's an unused niche here, though - Elite tries to make both inhabited and exploration gameplay equally valid (and so makes substantial compromises on both); X4 mostly scraps the exploration side (at least in the sense of seeing things no-one has seen before) and so does inhabited space much better. There's definitely room for a game that focuses very much on exploration with inhabited space merely being a "base camp" for the expeditions - mapping, routing, logistics, supplies, hazards, establishing forward depots, and transporting valuable discoveries home - and has something of ED's or NMS's scale to it.

 

[bangermsuk]

not looked into x4,starfield atm has both seem to suffer from poor optimzations according to the reviews i have seen,Elite did have a great gameplay before oddy came in.too me they could of test all of the content before it was brought out.but never seem to have bothered with that little detail.or got proper bug hunters & tested to do it for them from kickstart.

 

[Imo]

Do you want Fdev to make ED 2 or another expansion for ED 1?

ED is almost 10 years old and it has aged a lot. The graphics don't hold a candle to current gen space sims and space themed games. So it would be best for Fdev to keep the good features and learn from other space games for a sequel (Elite 5).

Update: gameplay and comparison, recommendation.

I would already be happy if we would finally get all the shiny things that David Braben told so excited about during the Kickstarter campaign 10 years ago.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM0Gcl7iUM8