Winter 2023 DLC Speculation

[Iben]

I agree fully with the statement on walkthroughs

however for the regular exhibit box I think there a 3 factors one is size there are just things too small to make work such as the spiders the second is just like the walkthroughs it provides ways of including animals like snakes with difficult locomotion styles to animate and 3 at the time of the base games creation it was a way of adding smaller animals that would have been annoying to work with in the current habitat system ie iguanas which easily move more then the tortoises but would be annoying to create when the smallest thing in the base game was probably also the tortoise and planet zoo is not built for small habitat animals at all.

I'd agree when we talk about the size of spiders and stuff. But iguanas could have worked perfectly in the current habitat system (and if you have the mod, you can clearly see they do), but Frontier went for it most likely because it falls under the same category as the other animals as in "they don't move much in zoos". Because if size was the reason, the caiman would have been an exhibit box too. You could say that the caiman could have been an exhibit box animal too based on the premise of it not moving much either; but clearly they wanted it for the swimming/deepdiving.

Though, I heavily disagree with the notion that Planet Zoo was not build for small habitat animals, there's absolutely nothing indicating that. We've gotten several smaller animals, both in the base game and in the first year of DLC. Planet Zoo simply went for the bigger habitat animals first because those are the obvious animals you want to add for your general audience, because the same principles of attraction in real life zoos apply to zoo games as well. The majority of the people who go to a zoo go for the bigger animals, not the smaller ones.

It's no surprise that now that we're in the 4th year of development that we're getting smaller habitat animals, because those are the ones that the more "hard core" zoo audience also want in their game. Nothing fundamental was changed about the game that it now supports small habitat animals where it couldn't before, they always could, it's just a matter of releasing the right animals at the right time.

 

[Milurian]

I'd agree when we talk about the size of spiders and stuff. But iguanas could have worked perfectly in the current habitat system (and if you have the mod, you can clearly see they do), but Frontier went for it most likely because it falls under the same category as the other animals as in "they don't move much in zoos". Because if size was the reason, the caiman would have been an exhibit box too. You could say that the caiman could have been an exhibit box animal too based on the premise of it not moving much either; but clearly they wanted it for the swimming/deepdiving.

Though, I heavily disagree with the notion that Planet Zoo was not build for small habitat animals, there's absolutely nothing indicating that. We've gotten several smaller animals, both in the base game and in the first year of DLC. Planet Zoo simply went for the bigger habitat animals first because those are the obvious animals you want to add for your general audience, because the same principles of attraction in real life zoos apply to zoo games as well. The majority of the people who go to a zoo go for the bigger animals, not the smaller ones.

It's no surprise that now that we're in the 4th year of development that we're getting smaller habitat animals, because those are the ones that the more "hard core" zoo audience also want in their game. Nothing fundamental was changed about the game that it now supports small habitat animals where it couldn't before, they always could, it's just a matter of releasing the right animals at the right time.

question how often do you push the limits in terms of small habitats because my current project has me doing that alot and everything is too big the feeder the enrichment items you cant even make habitats smaller than 100m2 it wasnt built for small animals but they have found a way to work them in not perfectly but reasonably well.

I am fully of the opinion that if they added the iguana now it would be a habitat animal also i think the biggest reason its still in the box is because its a climbing reptile since they have given 0 reptiles the ability to climb when many of the current ingame lizards can and do.

also with your it doesnt move argument the tortoises should of been exhibit animals then.

 

[NZFanatic]

and if you have the mod, you can clearly see they do

That doesn't actually tell us anything, since the modded iguana is just a monitor lizard wearing an iguana costume, and we already knew that monitor lizards work in habitats.

Anyway, I don't disagree, but considering iguana habitats in zoos tend to be pretty small and full of climbing stuff and the climbing system is super glitchy around hitboxes and such, I have to assume that is why they were never habitat animals. Probably also the fact that iguana 'habitats' in zoos - especially for the two species in the game - do tend to be terraria, even if these days they are slightly (very slightly) larger than the in-game box.

In any case I think the purpose of the exhibits is being over-thought. Frontier wanted a way to include terraria that didn't require complex customisation considering the building system is already pretty complex for beginners while still making exhibit animals 'individuals' (they told us that was the goal a long time ago). So, a uniform box with an auto-spawned interior design that you can place individual animals into. I doubt they considered that a large portion of the community would end up wanting more out of it than that.

 

[Narwhaler]

I'd agree when we talk about the size of spiders and stuff. But iguanas could have worked perfectly in the current habitat system (and if you have the mod, you can clearly see they do), but Frontier went for it most likely because it falls under the same category as the other animals as in "they don't move much in zoos". Because if size was the reason, the caiman would have been an exhibit box too. You could say that the caiman could have been an exhibit box animal too based on the premise of it not moving much either; but clearly they wanted it for the swimming/deepdiving.

Though, I heavily disagree with the notion that Planet Zoo was not build for small habitat animals, there's absolutely nothing indicating that. We've gotten several smaller animals, both in the base game and in the first year of DLC. Planet Zoo simply went for the bigger habitat animals first because those are the obvious animals you want to add for your general audience, because the same principles of attraction in real life zoos apply to zoo games as well. The majority of the people who go to a zoo go for the bigger animals, not the smaller ones.

It's no surprise that now that we're in the 4th year of development that we're getting smaller habitat animals, because those are the ones that the more "hard core" zoo audience also want in their game. Nothing fundamental was changed about the game that it now supports small habitat animals where it couldn't before, they always could, it's just a matter of releasing the right animals at the right time.

I think it is rather because there is no iconic megafauna left to be added, so naturally the attention is gonna shift towards smaller but also popular animals, we got all the large land animal groups represented with the only missing species being relatives of animals that are already in the game (other deer, other antelopes, other bears, other everything tbh). The only big, most distinct large animals left are the muskox and the walrus, which will definitely come at some point. Everything else is gonna consist of smaller species like the coati and the wolverine.

 

[Doran]

The walkthrough exhibit seems to be for animals they can't do in a habitat with the currently sized team because of the complexity of the animals locomotion system or when the need driven behavior of Planet Zoo gets in the way. Flying animals are a good example of the first, the sloth is the example of the second

Bats also are example of the second. Just imagine bat habitat with them constantly crawling on the ground not being really able to take off from the ground. Its almost like sloth.

Bats generally are just bad habitat material with only sensible potential expection being vampire bat, which can walk and take easily off the ground while being mobile doing so.

With Frontier still not doing birds it seems like they still would rather make them habitats. It kinda makes your point Frontier goes for habitat where they can.

 

[Iben]

question how often do you push the limits in terms of small habitats

I think my Planet Zoo work so answers that hahaha.

I know not everything works perfect, but the issue with the feeders is much more a issue of everything being overscaled in PZ which is much more of a remnant of the PC approach than anything else.

The tortoises we have simply do not work in a 4m by 4m box in terms of husbandry, something Frontier does take into consideration. The whole thing about "animals not moving much" is much more a reason for the choice of looped animations, not necessarily tied to the size of the box.

Anyway, I don't disagree, but considering iguana habitats in zoos tend to be pretty small and full of climbing stuff and the climbing system is super glitchy around hitboxes and such, I have to assume that is why they were never habitat animals.

Eh. I think we are a lot more critical about the climbing system than Frontier seems to be themselves, so I don't know if that really was a reason at the time. We'll never know of course.

I think it is rather because there is no iconic megafauna left to be added, so naturally the attention is gonna shift towards smaller but also popular animals

Yeah that's kind of the point I was making. I wouldn't say that the smaller animals we got are necessarily popular among the general audience (of course, there's always exceptions), but it's just an objective fact that the general zoo/animal audience is more interested in bigger animals than smaller animals. It's a huge part of zoo design and even conservation efforts; so obviously it also has an impact on a zoo game.

So it's not at all a coincidence that we got those animals first when you still want to target a bigger audience, rather than later on when you know you've got a hardcore playerbase tied to your game.

With Frontier still not doing birds it seems like they still would rather make them habitats. It kinda makes your point Frontier goes for habitat where they can.

That's been my thinking as well. There's absolutely nothing that stopped them from doing birds like they did bats from the very beginning.

 

[Aramar]

What if we get a tundra/taiga pack disguised as the Alaska animal pack?

wolverine
muskox
walrus
sea otter
wapiti
American black bear
North American porcupine
Wood frog

Or the Alaska pack with the first 4 and a native American building set.

 

[MMaire]

My feeling is that if Frontier wants to release a bird pack, this Christmas 2023/2024 is definitely the best time from a strategic and marketing point of view to do so. The Steam figures prove a slowdown in purchases and launches of the game. If the game intends to restart a cycle with its community, it needs a huge novelty that will revitalize purchases of previous DLCs and revive the creative community. Ideally, I think that an expansion (and not a DLC) dedicated to aviaries and birds would be the ideal pack at this precise moment in the game. I have the feeling that we are at a turning point and that Christmas shopping will help , this would almost be comparable to the launch of a new game in terms of sales and hype.

If I am more reasonable, I would indeed look at an Highland animal pack, by thinking about geographical diversity on the one hand, satisfying the players' wishlist and offering iconic zoo species. Something like that :

• Wolverine (N.A / EU • WISH N°2)
• Musk Ox (N.A • WISH N°4) or Takin (ASIA • WISH N°9)
• Hamadryas Baboon (AFR • WISH N°8) or Gelada Baboon (AFR. • WISH N°28)
• Markhor (ASIA • WISH N°15)
• Spectacled Bear (S.A • WISH N°16)
• Pallas Cat (ASIA • WISH N°28)
• Patagonian Mara (S.A • WISH N°26)

+ WE
- Humming-birds (with variants)

A pack that I would find very attractive and which is not often mentioned, is a pack of non-flying birds or which we most often see on the ground in zoos. I don't know if this would be taken as a definitive abandonment of aviaries and flying birds, but these animals remain among the most in demand, this is what it could look like:

• Secretary Bird (AFR. • WISH N°1)
• Shoebill (AFR. • WISH N°12)
• Grey Crowned Crane (AFR/EU • WISH N°13)
• Great White Pelican (AFR/ASIA/EU • WISH N°24)
• Greater Rhea (S.A • WISH N°29)
• Marabou Stork (AFR. • WISH N°50)
• Southern Rockhopper Penguin (ARC • WISH N°51)

+ WE
Kakapo (OCE • WISH N°89) or Himalayan Monal (ASIA • WISH N°109) or Burrowing Owl (S.A/N.A • WISH N°116)

Alternative candidates :

• Mute Swan (WORLD • WISH N°46)
• Helmeted Guineafowl (AFR. • WISH N°57)
• Eastern Wild Turkey (N.A • WISH N°92)

 

[NachoB]

The problem that i see with an all habitat birds animal pack that i've been thinking about lately is that we want things like secretary bird, pelican, swan ,duck, ibis, burrowing owl, etc but all of those require a lot of work since they aren't like any other bird in the game. Would need new rigs and whole new sets of animations... So a realistic Frontier bird pack would really look like: flamingo n2, penguin n4, basic chicken bodyplan, crane n2, ratite (rhea) and maybe 1 really detailed bird (secretary, swan, duck OR pelican but not all) and a midly modified rig with a bit more of work put into it (ibis, spoonbill, stork but not all of them) and tbh that would be kind of lackluster for me.

 

[Narwhaler]

Yeah that's kind of the point I was making. I wouldn't say that the smaller animals we got are necessarily popular among the general audience (of course, there's always exceptions), but it's just an objective fact that the general zoo/animal audience is more interested in bigger animals than smaller animals. It's a huge part of zoo design and even conservation efforts; so obviously it also has an impact on a zoo game.

So it's not at all a coincidence that we got those animals first when you still want to target a bigger audience, rather than later on when you know you've got a hardcore playerbase tied to your game.

Yeah definitely, large species might be the stars but without smaller species the zoos wouldn't feel as lifelike, and they definitely give a refreshing alternative to big big habitats.

What if we get a tundra/taiga pack disguised as the Alaska animal pack?

wolverine
muskox
walrus
sea otter
wapiti
American black bear
North American porcupine
Wood frog

Or the Alaska pack with the first 4 and a native American building set.

every time a person adds a wood frog for their generic cold climate pack a kitty dies

hot take but I would love to see a tank with crabs if we don't get the snowy owl as walkthrough exhibit animal for a cold pack.

 

[Aramar]

every time a person adds a wood frog for their generic cold climate pack a kitty dies

Actually there are other frogs/toads that I would prefer over the wood frog.

 

[Narwhaler]

Actually there are other frogs/toads that I would prefer over the wood frog.

Call me crazy but I don't really think any type of frog will be a good addition anymore

 

[HunterIsCookie]

Yeah definitely, large species might be the stars but without smaller species the zoos wouldn't feel as lifelike, and they definitely give a refreshing alternative to big big habitats.

every time a person adds a wood frog for their generic cold climate pack a kitty dies

hot take but I would love to see a tank with crabs if we don't get the snowy owl as walkthrough exhibit animal for a cold pack.

Maybe a Giant Isopod tank or somethin, idk.

 

[frank1055]

I just had a flash of inspiration, and what I can feel and be sure of is that both pure aquatic and flying birds will join pz, and pz2 should not occur for at least 5 years
I will send my theory up, it may be longer.Sorry, please wait

 

[DarthQuell]

tiny animals shouldn't be habitat

Praying mantis as habitat species confirmed

I would love to see a tank with crabs

I'm not opposed. I'd also like freshwater crawfish; imagine the colors. Standard muddy brown, but then you get snowy white, electric blue, crystal clear, and fire red

Call me crazy but I don't really think any type of frog will be a good addition anymore

Poison dart frogs. Hear me out. We get a couple more. They're small and all look the same apart from colors, really. So, they'd get the butterfly treatment, meaning we get a bunch in a single pack, and all of them, plus the ones in the base game, can be combined in our first standard multi-species exhibit

 

[nutrit]

What if we get a tundra/taiga pack disguised as the Alaska animal pack?

wolverine
muskox
walrus
sea otter
wapiti
American black bear
North American porcupine
Wood frog

Or the Alaska pack with the first 4 and a native American building set.

Only switch wapiti to mountain goat and I’m in heaven

 

[KönigDerKaffeebohnen]

The problem that i see with an all habitat birds animal pack that i've been thinking about lately is that we want things like secretary bird, pelican, swan ,duck, ibis, burrowing owl, etc but all of those require a lot of work since they aren't like any other bird in the game. Would need new rigs and whole new sets of animations... So a realistic Frontier bird pack would really look like: flamingo n2, penguin n4, basic chicken bodyplan, crane n2, ratite (rhea) and maybe 1 really detailed bird (secretary, swan, duck OR pelican but not all) and a midly modified rig with a bit more of work put into it (ibis, spoonbill, stork but not all of them) and tbh that would be kind of lackluster for me.

My thought aswell, but what i do think would work well is a bird scenery pack.
Think back to the aquatic pack, a new mechanic with deep diving, 3 completly new rigs, one clone, one exhibit.

Lets assume that the WE doesnt completly suck in its implimintation as its idear would also work well for small active birds in large numbers, for example budgies, so thats our exhibit animal for the obvious reasons of being colorfull, having a niche as both an australian desert bird, the third most common pet and being rediculously common in zoos of a ll sizes and just being a generally very popular animal.

Then for a "clone" the peafowl rig is begging to finally be reused and the best candidate for that would be the victorian crowned pidgeon, the largest of all extant pidgeon and a classic free roaming bird in tropical houses

Then we got 3 unique new rigs that we can fill however we want, BUT imo just like the aquatic pack putting in "less desireable" species first makes more sense:

My first choice would be the golden eagle for some cloud climate mountain representation and the nice fact that they exist across the entire northern hemisphere, making them very usefull, desireable and flexible while not being the standout choice due to their rather dull colors and lack of any special feature

Second imo a macaw should be here but neither the scarlet or the blue and yellow as both would be very welcomed clones in later pack, so my choice would be the hyacinth macaw, which is not only the largest of all macaws and has recently had a great success in their husbandry with the "Marriage Aviary" Aralandia in the zoo wuppertal, where since last year zoos from the EAZA can send young single macaws to hopefully find a partner for life of their own choosing, greatly increasing breeding success and also being just pretty cute and considerate towards the birds.
Together with their bright blue coloration and size they will easily stand out next to other macaws that could be included in the future and would make for a great first one in this pack.

And lastly we got the king vulture, a beautiful vulture from central and south america and basicly lives everywhere the collared peccary lives except desert.
Besides covering many different biomes with a large range and being quite common in captivity with 42 EAZA holdings they would not just be the most colorfull of the new world vultures, but also a very good base for an andean condor later down the line

Combine this with some usefull scenery made of new perching spots, netting and mesh and we got a banger bird starter pack on our hands that adds 5 great new birds while leaving lots of room for easy expansion on frontiers part in the model of the aquatic pack.
The pack also coverd each biome besides tundra and coasts and each continent with oceania and the americas getting some extra love while the golden eagle brings something to everywhere else. Sounds like a steal to me

 

[frank1055]

1. Regarding fiscal revenue

Firstly, pz has been surviving for four years and is about to enter its 15th dlc. The revenue from a game with 15 DLCs and the main body will be huge, even if you purchase them together at a discount, it is still a considerable amount. Moreover, some groups can freely purchase according to their desired animals, while fanatics will purchase all of them.

But if you want to re release pz2, then refer to JWE2. The next generation of games must include all species from the previous generation, and add some new species, as well as a certain number of birds and aquatic animals, in order for players to pay for this. And jwe2 emerged because the shortcomings of the first generation games were too obvious to be improved.

So in summary, pz2 must include all the contents of the 15 DLCs for animals that belong to the pz ontology. Only then can players accept it. But if we do this, the revenue of Pz2 is far less than that of previous games with DLC. It is undoubtedly foolish to do so when Frontier's finances are poor. I think everyone knows which way to make more money.The most suitable way for PZ is to create a large DLC to sell birds

2. I don't know if you have any impression, but during the CONSERvation PACK preview, the official made a mistake in sending an announcement and quickly withdrew it. I forgot the specific content, but there are obviously many emoji emoji emoji packs from birds on it, I don't know if it was intentional or accidental. Perhaps the staff confused the topic and posted incorrect content.

3. As I mentioned before, we have a journalist friend here who once played a beta version of Pz at the Cologne Game Show. In his version, many animals had already appeared (leopards, African rhinoceroses, maned wolves, beavers, kangaroos, koalas, ostriches, water dolphins, armadillos, camel deer, butterflies, etc.). These animals gradually joined later DLCs. At that time, I only talked to you about the animals that had already appeared in the game, but I didn't mention those that had not yet appeared.

Yes, he saw flying birds and pure aquatic animals - manatees, as well as habitat snakes, Shoebill, Secretary bird, Litocranius walleri, Kirk's dik-dik, sugar glider and cobras, chameleons, and mantises（I have no actual evidence regarding the third point, it is only news circulating in our region. You can believe it or not. But it's worth mentioning that as early as September last year, I discussed this matter on Discord and was also ridiculed by everyone at that time. But when butterflies appeared on the grassland dlc, its credibility at least increased.You can even search for chat records on Discord,There is also a specific display of flying birds that my friend saw above）

 

[RightWhale]

My thought aswell, but what i do think would work well is a bird scenery pack.
Think back to the aquatic pack, a new mechanic with deep diving, 3 completly new rigs, one clone, one exhibit.

Lets assume that the WE doesnt completly suck in its implimintation as its idear would also work well for small active birds in large numbers, for example budgies, so thats our exhibit animal for the obvious reasons of being colorfull, having a niche as both an australian desert bird, the third most common pet and being rediculously common in zoos of a ll sizes and just being a generally very popular animal.
View attachment 375165

Then for a "clone" the peafowl rig is begging to finally be reused and the best candidate for that would be the victorian crowned pidgeon, the largest of all extant pidgeon and a classic free roaming bird in tropical houses
View attachment 375175


Then we got 3 unique new rigs that we can fill however we want, BUT imo just like the aquatic pack putting in "less desireable" species first makes more sense:

My first choice would be the golden eagle for some cloud climate mountain representation and the nice fact that they exist across the entire northern hemisphere, making them very usefull, desireable and flexible while not being the standout choice due to their rather dull colors and lack of any special feature
View attachment 375167

Second imo a macaw should be here but neither the scarlet or the blue and yellow as both would be very welcomed clones in later pack, so my choice would be the hyacinth macaw, which is not only the largest of all macaws and has recently had a great success in their husbandry with the "Marriage Aviary" Aralandia in the zoo wuppertal, where since last year zoos from the EAZA can send young single macaws to hopefully find a partner for life of their own choosing, greatly increasing breeding success and also being just pretty cute and considerate towards the birds.
Together with their bright blue coloration and size they will easily stand out next to other macaws that could be included in the future and would make for a great first one in this pack.
View attachment 375168


And lastly we got the king vulture, a beautiful vulture from central and south america and basicly lives everywhere the collared peccary lives except desert.
Besides covering many different biomes with a large range and being quite common in captivity with 42 EAZA holdings they would not just be the most colorfull of the new world vultures, but also a very good base for an andean condor later down the line
View attachment 375170

Combine this with some usefull scenery made of new perching spots, netting and mesh and we got a banger bird starter pack on our hands that adds 5 great new birds while leaving lots of room for easy expansion on frontiers part in the model of the aquatic pack.
The pack also coverd each biome besides tundra and coasts and each continent with oceania and the americas getting some extra love while the golden eagle brings something to everywhere else. Sounds like a steal to me

I always thought if they made an aviary pack like this they could double up on animals. I wouldn’t care at all if the scarlet macaw is a “clone” or “reskin” of the hyacinth. Or if the bald eagle is a “reskin” of the golden eagle. Realistically these animals act very similar (as far as planet zoo and gameplay wise is concerned) so I would be down.

 

[KönigDerKaffeebohnen]

I always thought if they made an aviary pack like this they could double up on animals. I wouldn’t care at all if the scarlet macaw is a “clone” or “reskin” of the hyacinth. Or if the bald eagle is a “reskin” of the golden eagle. Realistically these animals act very similar (as far as planet zoo and gameplay wise is concerned) so I would be down.

They wont i promise and with good reason.
You might not care but many other people including people at frontier would be getting a stroke
Far smarter imo would be to just do it like the aquatic pack and introduce the rigs first and add those popular animals for a lower cost later.
For example in north america pack 5 they could easily use the golden eagle to make a bald eagle as a "clone" and put more effort in for example a north american porcupine.

And as that basically is how frontier allready has done it the last 4 years i doubt they will switch up this running system