Almost as if it equates the need for re-expansion with distance. Guess we will see if that's a thing in due course.
Thargoid invasion - Next target systems?
- Thread starter Aleks Zuno
- Start date
Week 58, 4th January 3310
ReportTwenty-three Alerts repelled at Arietis Sectors LM-V b2-3, HG-X b1-3 and HG-X b1-0, Cephei Sectors AV-Y b2 and AF-A c22, HIPs 4041 and 21125, Hyades Sectors PI-S b4-2 and ST-Q b5-5, Col 285 Sectors JA-G b11-3, SS-H b11-4, OC-V d2-79, WY-F b12-0, EA-Q c5-7, NG-E b12-3, SH-B b14-2, RH-B b14-0, YT-F b12-6, ZT-F b12-4 and KW-M c7-31, Pegasi Sector OI-S b4-4, Gliese 9035 and Nu Guang.
Three Invasions defended at Aowicha, Vocovii and HIP 18075.
The defended Invasion systems will start Recovery.
Targets updated at 06:40 11th January 3310
HIP 20024 Invasion 84% — Thor 19 Ly, 2 ports, 2572 Ls planet attack
HIP 22524 Control 58% — Indra 20 Ly, 1922 strength
Kurumanit Alert 38% *39.7% — Cocijo 20 Ly, 38 Ls outpost
HIP 19157 Alert 38% — Indra 22 Ly, 705 Ls starport, 1277 Ls outpost, 217 Ls planet
Lei Hsini Control 32% — Indra 21 Ly, 2684 strength
Hyades Sector PI-S b4-3 Control 24% — Indra 20 Ly, 1675 strength
Scythia Control 24% — Indra 20 Ly, 3414 strength
Hupang Invasion 18% *19.4% — Taranis 9 Ly, 2 ports, 106 Ls planet attack, 142 Ls planet damage
HIP 11111 Alert 18% *18.2% — Oya 24 Ly, 2567 Ls outpost, 2474 Ls planet
Pegasi Sector PI-S b4-3 Alert 16% — Raijin 22 Ly
HIP 30158 Alert 12% *12.8% — Hadad 21 Ly, 543 Ls outpost, 6333 Ls planet
Nibelaako Alert 8% *8.7% — Raijin 22 Ly, 519 Ls starport, 16k Ls outpost
Kaurukat Control 8% — Raijin 17 Ly, 11.1k strength
HIP 19198 Alert 4% *4.9% — Thor 17 Ly, 1454 Ls starport
HIP 8525 Control 4% *4.8% — Oya 18 Ly, 8710 strength
Col 285 Sector UH-C b13-2 Control 4% — Thor 21 Ly, 1570 strength
Pegasi Sector GW-W d1-115 Control 4% — Raijin 23 Ly, 2833 strength
Col 285 Sector JA-G b11-1 Control 4% — Thor 19 Ly, 2318 strength
Col 285 Sector QB-E b12-2 Control 4% — Thor 19 Ly, 2316 strength
Gaezatorix Control 2% *3.4% — Indra 17 Ly, 10.6k strength
HIP 20679 Control 2% *2.8% — Indra 18 Ly, 8996 strength
Montioch Alert 2% *2.8% — Hadad 13 Ly, 1076 Ls outpost
HIP 20916 Control 2% *2.7% — Indra 17 Ly, 10.7k strength
HR 1354 Control 2% *2.5% — Indra 18 Ly, 9127 strength
Pegasi Sector NN-S b4-3 Matrix 2% *2.5% — Raijin 24 Ly
Cephei Sector AF-A c9 Control 2% *2.3% — Oya 16 Ly, 3645 strength
HIP 13179 Control 2% *2.2% — Oya 15 Ly, 14.7k strength
Col 285 Sector RM-B b14-8 Alert 2% *2.1% — Hadad 21 Ly
HIP 20480 Control 2% — Indra 16 Ly, 12.1k strength
Raidal Control 2% — Indra 16 Ly, 12.1k strength
Pegasi Sector BQ-Y d93 Control 2% — Raijin 24 Ly, 784 strength
HIP 20419 Control 2% — Indra 18 Ly, 8896 strength
Iceniguari Control 2% — Raijin 23 Ly, 2643 strength
Pegasi Sector BQ-Y d71 Control 2% — Raijin 26 Ly, 1506 strength
Pegasi Sector KC-U b3-2 Control 2% — Raijin 24 Ly, 817 strength
Pegasi Sector PE-N a8-2 Control 2% — Raijin 23 Ly, 950 strength
Pegasi Sector UK-L a9-2 Control 2% — Raijin 23 Ly, 1046 strength
Sugalis Control 2% — Raijin 23 Ly, 2424 strength
Notes
The Alert report lists predicted attackers.
Week 57, 28th December 3309
ReportTwenty-seven Alerts repelled at HIPs 3006, 2422 and 19600, Cephei Sectors FB-X b1-1 and DQ-Y b1, Pegasi Sectors UK-L a9-3, HH-U b3-2, MN-S b4-0, JH-U b3-8 and MN-S b4-2, Col 285 Sectors OG-E b12-0, SM-C b13-0, JG-O c6-5, VN-H b11-6, VN-H b11-5, ZT-F b12-2, OS-T d3-69, BA-P c6-16, SH-B b14-7, WN-Z b14-5 and RM-B b14-4, Hyadum II, 77 Theta-1 Tauri, 79 b Tauri, Holvandalla, Arietis Sector JR-V b2-4 and 86 Rho Tauri.
Four Invasions defended at Luggerates, HIPs 116360 and 20577, and 70 Tauri.
Three Control evictions at Pegasi Sectors KC-U b3-0, KC-U b3-3 and TK-L a9-5.
The defended Invasion systems will start Recovery.
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Well, I moved my carrier over to Thor last night, but
TBH I find this constant moving of the goalposts quite frustrating. It reinforces the feeling that it doesn't matter at all what we do. When we fail they make it easier, when we succeed they make it harder until we start failing again.
Bringing back Invasions bc many players enjoy them more than Alert-Sampling may have been the right move, yes. But not conceding any real progress even for completely isolating not one but two Titans is annoying and frustrating. The Goids just continue as if nothing had happened. As if their supply lines hadn't been cut at all. The timeslot where Taranis was completely surrounded came and went and nothing happened. Really makes me wonder what FDev actually expects us to do, or how they intend the war to progress.
They should have enabled us to wreck Taranis before the Goids could adapt, is what I'm saying. As it is, I can't help asking myself what am I even doing here.
TBH I find this constant moving of the goalposts quite frustrating. It reinforces the feeling that it doesn't matter at all what we do. When we fail they make it easier, when we succeed they make it harder until we start failing again.
Bringing back Invasions bc many players enjoy them more than Alert-Sampling may have been the right move, yes. But not conceding any real progress even for completely isolating not one but two Titans is annoying and frustrating. The Goids just continue as if nothing had happened. As if their supply lines hadn't been cut at all. The timeslot where Taranis was completely surrounded came and went and nothing happened. Really makes me wonder what FDev actually expects us to do, or how they intend the war to progress.
They should have enabled us to wreck Taranis before the Goids could adapt, is what I'm saying. As it is, I can't help asking myself what am I even doing here.
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That's why I don't think about it as about real war which "I have to" win, or I will see destroyed bubble.
For me it is bunch of new possibilities, enviroments, and refreshing some gameloops, so when I'm in mood for doing anything for cause I'm just doing it, without thinking, if it is effective.
That's why in last week I did CZs in hupang. And guess, that with this approach I have much more fun, than people which grinded full carriers of samples, only to see, that their actions had 0 impact.
You're probably right - but if that's all that the simulation is essentially capable of providing, which is rather less than Frontier originally sold it as/hoped for it, then there were much more reliable, simple and even potentially exciting ways for Frontier to deliver that - ones which don't allow players to (accidentally or deliberately) stop all Invasions entirely, or make it so that AX surface missions don't generate ... ones which don't risk the Thargoid invasion being the "wrong" size (however Frontier define that) ... and even ones which allow important systems to be attacked (even if the actual risk is zero) to make the war feel more like it matters.
Two previously cleared spires at Indra have alerted:
- Hyades Sector ST-Q b5-5 (body 2 - there's a carrier here but it's restricted to squadron and friends and has restock disabled! BOOOO!)
- Arietis Sector HG-X b1-0 (body 5)
A previous spire alert at Thor proved that as well. What could be more interesting is what happens if a spire is retaken by the Thargoids(even if it’s as simple as “It turns back on and you can shoot more Orthrus”).
I suspect it’s more likely to be Taranis showing us what does happen, though, rather than Indra.
That is true, but I still generally find them to be cleared quicker than their outpost counterparts, so while the experienced may prefer outpost CZs for their stability(and possibly lack of Glaives), it remains a possibility that the surface ports are more ‘popular’ in those who do not partake in any external communication(or simply read AXI target orders and go there).
Or it could just be the Shard-a-Condas causing that effect, dunno. Whichever the case, Glaives don’t appear to have caused a hugely significant disturbance to AX endeavors at surface ports. It was certainly quite noticeable how Omumba, during its one invasion so far, progressed to about 80-83% in one week when a surface port came under attack, but the remaining ~50% the following week took almost the entirety of the cycle with its outpost attacked.
And speaking of the Glaives - do we know if they spawn at the large orbitals? I’m not sure I recall seeing it documented anywhere.
(At least Scythes don’t have the anti-Guardian field but they definitely make damaged port evacs a bit more interesting. I kind of wonder how many are aware of that scenario or show an interest in partaking in it with a combat ship… though it could be argued the presence of interceptors rather than Scythes alone just makes it more complicated.)
RE spires - other than exploring them and running around Revenants trying to get stuff from them, not been that interested. No offense to those who enjoy it, but while they are a neat set piece, repeatedly slaughtering largely defenseless and slow “opponents” is not something I’d find particularly entertaining for very long. I’m also not entirely convinced that we really fully know what their purpose is.
I would find it nice if they fixed the majority of independent rescue ships just not being used, spire sabotage aside. Not sure whether to expect it though, even if I heard that the issue tracker on the matter was acknowledged.
And on the subject of the issue tracker - would it be possible to get some more attention on this absolute nonsense?
Issue Tracker
issues.frontierstore.net
It’s gotten even worse now that the interceptors are super heat sensitive and will frequently ignore you beam lasering away, or even pounding them with Guardian weapons to start shooting one of those half-useless AX NPCs which then fly into your fire and get you a “murder bounty” because you scratched their shields for a split second and didn’t meaningfully contribute to their destruction(while they weren’t even your target either).
I’ve gotten more bounties for “murder” because of that stupidity in a few days than, well, bounties for things that were actually my mistake, like inadvertently targeting a security ship in a high res during a fight, over a few years of playtime. (Not counting bugs of “Blocking pad near an Odyssey settlement while your ship is way away from it”.)
The least Frontier could have done is to get the sign that players are tired of the stalemate and to make the story happen at more than two GalNets per week. Or that maybe they should have paid more attention to the system that was actually meant to keep the players busy while the story (barely) progresses.
Frontier's main problem with Elite Dangerous (beyond any functional issues) is essentially that things take twice as long as they expect, even when they think they've taken that into account. For feature development and bug fixes that's frustrating, but for story-driven content it's fatal. One of the reasons I think their NMLA story (and the concurrent smaller stories) worked so well is that it didn't require new functionality for (almost) all of it, so they could keep the pacing going well.
Maybe it's one of those things they thought they'd covered fairly well - the Maelstroms are nowhere near anything vitally important, so if things slip a few weeks here and there the basic state of the galaxy is still fine - and then things slipped six months (and then another six months) and there's not a lot they can do to patch that up with the tools they have available.
At least the current trend has invasions (they should last the next 3-6 months at least) so there's a wider variety of things for players to do while the story is on hold.
Thinking about it a bit within the Galnet context, I wonder now whether Frontier intended our Spire site response to be merely a short-term goal of evicting all of the sites, where we use the percentage progress to advance a periphery barely enough to reach the innermost site then retreat away again. Quite obviously that has the direct problem of either defending them or presuming that the emptied sites remain dormant thereafter, but it turned out to have the indirect problem of Commanders identifying the sites as a scarce resource, disregarding the intended goal and reserving them only to be used for total completion.
The relevant Galnet timeline looks like this:
Definitely I am not suggesting that zero Spires actually should become the goal; their position as a scarce resource remains the case, it ought to be quite clear that Commanders cannot possibly believe such a goal while two starved Titans remain functional, and moreover I think it sent the message that the goal shall be to neutralise Titans. I wonder whether the plan since October was for the next update to provide a means of obtaining peripheral progress from inactive Spires¹, and only the update after that starts to address the case of a Maelstrom reaching zero systems.
1. Such as Thargoid attempts to attack the inactive Spire sites, where the attacking force draws from the peripheral systems.
The relevant Galnet timeline looks like this:
- 10th November 3309: Palin Makes Thargoid Spire Breakthrough
“To capitalise on this newfound understanding, my team has synthesised a biological contaminant based on the chemical composition of the samples. Introducing this to a spire’s processing chain can only help our efforts to disrupt their invasion plans.” - 1st December 3309: Titan Taranis Surrounded
Titan Taranis itself remains largely resistant to conventional assault, and Hyades Sector FB-N B7-6 is still considered a Thargoid stronghold. - 7th December 3309: Spire Shutdown Confirms Thargoid Vulnerability
“But so far – though Taranis has lost control of surrounding systems – there is no evidence that the motherships have been affected by the spire sites’ inactivity.”
Definitely I am not suggesting that zero Spires actually should become the goal; their position as a scarce resource remains the case, it ought to be quite clear that Commanders cannot possibly believe such a goal while two starved Titans remain functional, and moreover I think it sent the message that the goal shall be to neutralise Titans. I wonder whether the plan since October was for the next update to provide a means of obtaining peripheral progress from inactive Spires¹, and only the update after that starts to address the case of a Maelstrom reaching zero systems.
1. Such as Thargoid attempts to attack the inactive Spire sites, where the attacking force draws from the peripheral systems.
Assuming there's no deliberate avoidance of defending spires to allow this - the two at Indra this week seem to be progressing fast enough to complete already - I think we find that out around 29 February (read-ahead that far as always subject to error!) when Taranis finally retakes one of its nearby spires at a difficulty level that won't be contested.
Maybe. I think the problem even in that hypothetical is that:
- toppling Spires requires substantial focused effort (especially after the rebalancing) so can only be done by a group large enough to care about strategy
- toppling Spires has no strategic benefit except as part of removing a Maelstrom's sphere entirely [1] (which as we've found, isn't actually strategically useful)
So if it hadn't been used to go for Taranis or Leigong before that third Galnet article, it almost certainly would have been shortly after, so it would just have delayed the inevitable by a month or so.
Sabotage can still be valuable in a narrative sense, of course - but that has the "advantage" from the player perspective that we don't need to actually take time to do it, we can just assume that it'll have happened when the next story event is ready.
[1] It could have done. A change to "Alerts = N + (C * active Spires)" would make taking out the edge ones very valuable even if there's no intent to go after the deeper ones any time soon and raised the stakes by introducing the possibility (even if never used) that a Maelstrom left alone for too long might gain so many Spires that it wasn't possible to contain and just started growing exponentially.
Since we aren't allowed to capitalize on even such military successes as isolating a Titan, I'm beginning to think it might be smarter to just fall back and form a defensive perimeter at a distance that is easy to defend - be that 20 or 30ly from the Titans - until it pleases Frontier to introduce the next story piece.
I also wouldn't be surprised if such a success could not be repeated at all, with or without "rebalance", since players are just receiving the message that their actions are futile and therefore won't be mobilized again.
Active player numbers are still very low; December barely recovering the tiniest bit from the all-time low in November (according to Steamcharts). So whatever the immediate and long-term strategy is supposed to be, it'll have to be carried out by a very small player base.
I also wouldn't be surprised if such a success could not be repeated at all, with or without "rebalance", since players are just receiving the message that their actions are futile and therefore won't be mobilized again.
Active player numbers are still very low; December barely recovering the tiniest bit from the all-time low in November (according to Steamcharts). So whatever the immediate and long-term strategy is supposed to be, it'll have to be carried out by a very small player base.
It might be too early to say - it's going to take Taranis and Leigong about three months each just to get back to the size where two weeks of Spire-based attacks could wipe them out entirely again (and in those three months, the Alerts they do place can essentially be ignored). Depending on when the next story section begins they might not need recontaining very often to already be ready at "almost dead" for it. There's probably no benefit to doing a third yet, but it may well not have been pointless
That's mostly what will happen by default anyway - the current line isn't sustainable, and once Taranis and Leigong eventually get to the point of being able to place a full-ish Alert set again each week will be even less so, so it'll fall back to whatever position people can hold with the intrinsically fun activities.
Exactly where that line ends up - in the absence of any further changes, that is - and how long it takes will probably depend most on whether uninhabited Alerts are resolved (either at Alert or by recapture). If they continue to be worked on it might end up at about 20 LY (with Invasions being relatively rare) ... if they're largely ignored then it'll probably settle somewhere in the 25-30 LY range (with Invasions possibly being more common). More likely something else will change long before it gets back to stability.
This is definitely an area where overall player number figures probably don't matter all that much, because the majority of the activity is carried out by a smallish number of dedicated players, who turnover much more slowly than the average player.
Status of current Invasions:
- Vocovii: rn sitting at 20% progress. Note that this week is pretty much our only shot, as the other 2 stations are so far out (70,000ls) that people probably won't go through the trouble. High-G planet though, which is inconvenient.
- HIP 18075: nice low-G ground base this week, I'm fighting there and can recommend it. However the progress is a bit slow -- 11% right now, even though it's reasonably active.
- HIP 20024: rn at 6%, would probably have been a better first pick at Thor. Unfo not in single-jump distance from the 18075, but on the far side of the sphere.
- Hupang: yeah kay, huge player focus but still only at 4%, extremely hard due to Titan proximity; if I was calling the shot I'd just write this off and send the volunteers elsewhere.
Aowicha got done today so that should(might) send other players to that and the other Thor invasion. Possibly also Hupang, given that Vocovii is probably not gonna be attracting too much attention due to its high G port. I already made the experience of .5G affecting things quite a lot around a ground port. Don’t want to imagine what a pig 1.82G is.
Not to worry though, I think, seeing as PDES is on it.
(Currently taking a slight break from… well, doing stuff in general, but me alone, not gonna make a huge difference to proceedings anyway.)
People are also going to fight at Hupang anyway, because it’s Taranis, so it’s unlikely their focus would change significantly while it’s got an actively attacked surface port. Good for them if they’re having fun, but it’s probably effort that’s gonna end up going nowhere.
I’m gonna go ahead and say, I don’t rate Hupang’s chances very highly. Too much - but very understandable - diversion of focus on the easier to defend invasions. With another 7-9 invasions - not counting Montioch, because who’s gonna defend it… also tempted to exclude HR 1737 for now - likely to pass through, it’s probably just going to slip by again.
Unless people flock to its defense during the outpost stage, which I’m not sure will happen.
Another note I’ve been wanting to say(and before I forget again) - have to offer some recognition to the work that the unpopulated alert clearers from PDES are doing(I presume it’s primarily them) despite the higher workload. It’s quite a thankless task to have to deal with those, me thinks. I sure wouldn’t be able to tolerate much sampling for… any duration of time, until my brain would begin yearning for something more involving.
Unless people flock to its defense during the outpost stage, which I’m not sure will happen.
Another note I’ve been wanting to say(and before I forget again) - have to offer some recognition to the work that the unpopulated alert clearers from PDES are doing(I presume it’s primarily them) despite the higher workload. It’s quite a thankless task to have to deal with those, me thinks. I sure wouldn’t be able to tolerate much sampling for… any duration of time, until my brain would begin yearning for something more involving.
Vocovii is almost done and will probably clear during the night. Then hopefully we get more transfers to the Thor systems. With that, we should be able to clear 18075 - but I'm not so optimistic about 20024.
Gotta admit it's pretty frustrating to think that with the effort that's already flown into Hupang, we could have already cleared 18075 and be close to the finishing straight in 20024. It doesn't take a genius to predict Hupang will not even come near 33% and so it will all be in vain. -_-
Gotta admit it's pretty frustrating to think that with the effort that's already flown into Hupang, we could have already cleared 18075 and be close to the finishing straight in 20024. It doesn't take a genius to predict Hupang will not even come near 33% and so it will all be in vain. -_-
Well, people do what they find fun. Just mentioning I doubt Hupang would ever have gone anywhere close to even half-completion without a focus away from literally every other invasion(extremely unlikely), from the start.
I definitely see Vocovii clearing the night, 20024 is 50/50 but might still go through to the end of the cycle(18075 definitely will).
If not, it’s going to carry over with high enough progress that the outpost coming under attack wouldn’t be a significant hurdle. Especially with the evac option available at the surface port, then.
I definitely see Vocovii clearing the night, 20024 is 50/50 but might still go through to the end of the cycle(18075 definitely will).
If not, it’s going to carry over with high enough progress that the outpost coming under attack wouldn’t be a significant hurdle. Especially with the evac option available at the surface port, then.
As predicted, 18075 cleared just fine -- on Monday it was so busy there that I didn't bother logging in last night -- but 20024 is only at 58% now, I'm not optimistic that will work out. Well, there's still the outpost stage next week, but also some 8 current Alerts that will turn into Invasions by tomorrow. So that is definitely more than we can chew currently, having barely cleared 3 Invasions this week. And a lot of wasted effort on Hupang, of course.
As for next week, there will be Nu Guang which is a High-Pop system (240M), but also unfortunately <20ly. Personally I think that even though the simulation doesn't care much, we should priorize High-pop systems, but it will cost a lot of resources.
As for next week, there will be Nu Guang which is a High-Pop system (240M), but also unfortunately <20ly. Personally I think that even though the simulation doesn't care much, we should priorize High-pop systems, but it will cost a lot of resources.
Overwatch had its alert listed at 96% progress last I checked, it won’t go to invasion. Whether it is local forces at Raijin or PDES(not publicly listed as a target as far as I’m aware - not in their server also), there has generally been a consistent effort of preventing one or multiple populated alerts from slipping through around that Titan.