What if we got something to do with the Thargoids that wasn't just killing them?

Rainbro

Rainbro
CMDR ROGER said:
Of course, the part you quoted sounds fairly reasonable if the Thargoids have previously spend their free time mucking around in witchspace waiting to ambush unsuspecting pilots.

Regardless of what is playable and what isn't, earlier reports of mid-witchspace malfunctions would further indicate the Thargoids fired first (or, if you want to be charitable, scanned them and left the innocents on-board to die, which is probably considered a war crime).
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But they don't indicate that. The most you can infer is that first contact maybe happened around then. It does not indicate who shot first, that's just your assumption that it must have been the Thargoids - but that contradicts their later behaviour at Veliaze, and what we've seen in the Pleiades. It's always in response to something else.

If they were already willing to randomly start attacking in 2800, why do you think they stopped doing that by Veliaze, or the initial hyperdictions in 3303? They could easily have just kept doing that and never given us warning of their existence. This was already a plot point in FFE.
The Thargoids had the technological capability to destroy human ships with ease and it did not evolve over-night although their appearance in our Universe was sudden and dramatic. We can rationally assume that they could have destroyed all the early probes and less well-protected ships at an earlier date had they chosen to do so. They did not.
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The shutdown pulses of their ships specifically spare life support. The entire process of shutting down a ship and scanning its cargo would be completely unnecessary if they were actually willing to attack for the hell of it. The only action doing scans enables is to spare uninvolved ships. But then, hundreds of years and one war earlier, they'd just shoot on sight? But they stopped that again for Veliaze?

Anyway, I still don't agree with the idea of damning a species based on who shot first even though I think it was humans. There are so many more factors than that, also I don't want to have to hand myself in to my local Titan just because some random pilot panicked in the 2800s and started blasting, or because of Veliaze.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Rochester said:
The deeper-story hints that the Thargoids were two races, this was looked at earlier on but then discarded by FD.
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However, there are apparently clans or families, as evinced by the markings on the ships. While not confirmed, it seems likely, if not races, then groupings, maybe familial, exist and therefore there may be more peaceful Thargoids and more aggressive ones.

Or as it says in the Dark Wheel:

"They're Oresrians, and the one thing that can make an Oresrian deadly is being confused the way you just confused them, with their deadly enemies, the Thargoids"
 

Shurimal

Shurimal
CMDR ROGER said:
earlier reports of mid-witchspace malfunctions would further indicate the Thargoids fired firs
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Do I really need to remind you that hyperdrives up until very recently were notoriously unreliable and dangerous contraptions? You had about 50% chance of making it out in your destination in one piece, and if you had such good chances, you were lucky. All these early misjumps and missing ships are more than likely because the hyperdrive went boom midjump, dropped the ship right inbetween two close binaries, dropped the ship in interstellar space due to malfunction that could not be fixed by the crew, turned the crew and ship inside out or sent the ship literally straight to Hell.

Glad we don't have to deal with that crap anymore—I'm more happy to have a thargoid hyperdiction than my hyperdrive turning the ship and me into a stream of relativistic pi-mesons due do a slight design flaw.
 

galahad2069

G
Rainbro said:
Cool reference but I think you accidentally cut out the "try and..." bit. The Thargoids have been remarkably uncooperative in our attempts to wipe them out, frustratingly.
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We did not try.
We don't even know where their home world is, maybe they are not even indigenous to this galaxy for all we know.
 

Rainbro

Rainbro
galahad2069 said:
We did not try.
We don't even know where their home world is, maybe they are not even indigenous to this galaxy for all we know.
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You know, I'm so used to arguing over the semantics of "genocide" that I completely missed that the original message was talking about completely wiping them out, not just genocide. Fair enough, that was my fault.

Still, I do think the only obstacle to us trying that is that we don't know where their homeworlds are. It took one month from us developing AX weapons for the powers to start things like Operation Andronicus ("shoot everything in the Pleiades").
 

galahad2069

G
Rainbro said:
Still, I do think the only obstacle to us trying that is that we don't know where their homeworlds are.
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Only obstacle? Okay, let's say their homeworld is in an elliptical galaxy 398 million lightyears away, in a permit-locked system, on the surface of a non-landable atmospheric planet, with a sign on the door saying 'beware of the leopard'. How does that piece of information help us try and exterminate them?

We are the indigenous people to this galaxy, especially to this region of it, and they are the evil colonizers in this conflict.

Kill them all, so that fdev can finally do something more interesting than the Thargoid story line. :)
 

CMDR X

CMDR X
Do we even know who fired the first shot that started the war?

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angusmadmac1

angusmadmac1
It was the Feds so no real surprise really .
As to the indigenous peoples yeah that went well in human history . Quote" it is natural for the superior race to dominate an inferior one " our lovely Winston Churchill .
 

aRJay

aRJay
Kira Goto said:
Millenia? Millions, more like. Thargoid technology was at this level it is at currently, already at least million years ago, during their conflict with the Guardians. Hard for us to say if it advanced any more since but there’s a chance the Hydra didn’t exist back then or was not used until the conflict ended(Guardian sites ask for tissue samples of all but the Hydra for their logs).

Frankly, I think they are not fully committing precisely because we’re not their actual focus. And whatever it is seems to be worth sacrificing a Titan for to them.

That was a million years ago from here, and while I’m not sure where in human history this was exactly, they’ve had plenty of time to observe humans on their (our) home planet if they found it, and so desired.

What happened to Taranis is still wrong. I can only hope that it won’t backfire on us horribly. My expectation… is the contrary, in that it will. I’m already convinced that whatever is left at the center there, it is not dead.

The question is, what are we going to find. And I’m not sure the answer will be a good one.
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A million years ago approximately humans were Homo Erectus et al and were just starting to head out of Africa having just started using fire. So not that readily distinguished from space, but could be taken out probably by dropping a big iridium rich rock in the right place.
 
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Zieman

Zieman
Kira Goto said:
What happened to Taranis is still wrong. I can only hope that it won’t backfire on us horribly. My expectation… is the contrary, in that it will. I’m already convinced that whatever is left at the center there, it is not dead.
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Even the GalNet hints in that direction:
presumed.jpg

presumed destroyed
 

Kira Goto

Kira Goto
Zieman said:
Even the GalNet hints in that direction:
View attachment 385876
presumed destroyed
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Already saw that - still going to be weeks before we find out. And from an in-universe perspective(rather than player reading this) it makes sense for it to be said “Yeah, that explosion probably absolutely wrecked the Titan, but we want to be sure so wait until we can check what’s left of it before any definitive statements are made”.
 

Rainbro

Rainbro
galahad2069 said:
Only obstacle? Okay, let's say their homeworld is in an elliptical galaxy 398 million lightyears away, in a permit-locked system, on the surface of a non-landable atmospheric planet, with a sign on the door saying 'beware of the leopard'. How does that piece of information help us try and exterminate them?

We are the indigenous people to this galaxy, especially to this region of it, and they are the evil colonizers in this conflict.

Kill them all, so that fdev can finally do something more interesting than the Thargoid story line. :)
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Okay, fine, we can collapse "we don't know where it is" under the broader "we don't know how to reach it", then. But the point is the same.

As for being indigenous, I don't see how that affects anything. The Thargoids have a right to claim territory, even if we speculate and say they are extra-galactic. Their claims are quite reasonable in size, there is absolutely no shortage of space. The only reason we're fighting over Thargoid territory is because it is Thargoid territory - it has all the juicy space oil and alien tech. And that just comes down to not believing that we should respect the boundaries of any race than our own (and even that is a stretch most of the time).
 

Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
Rainbro said:
(and even that is a stretch most of the time)
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And that's really the key point, I think.

All of the justifications for attacking the Thargoids would equally justify an all-out total destruction attack on the Federation or Empire or Alliance etc. Possibly more easily, since we have rather better documentation of what they've been up to and how many more people than the Thargoids they've killed or imprisoned or displaced over the centuries.
All of the justifications for not attacking the Thargoids would equally require leaving the superpowers intact.

Who's really funding the so-called "Pro-Xeno" movement?
 
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