How does this match the other information we have - the Logo and The Toast?
The Quest To Find Raxxla
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Well the only aspects of the Codex I believe that match are the following:
ArtTornqvist/TauCeti/Cora/Omphalos/Atlantis/Cities of Gold/Prestor John/fernweh.
Much of this I believe is directional clues, to follow the path of Gilgamesh/Satan (a fallen anti hero) and or Demeter/Persephone to the Underworld aka Otherworld; fernweh I suspect was an amusing reference to look at garden architecture in game and a map hidden in plain sight.
Concerning the toast: to the jewel/brow/mother of galaxies/Siren/Vagabond.
To the jewel (Eden/Paradise/Raxxla) burning (shining brightly - reference to the pendant globe description in Paradise Lost) upon the brow (hill or high peak, the pendant globe was described in Paradise Lost as being hung from the brow of heaven, the very high sloping hills that surrounded heaven) of the mother of galaxies (chaos, the womb and grave of nature / or Tiamat of Gilgamesh referenced by Brookes in a Drabble). Eden although it hung from heaven was not part of the Empyrean, it existed in or upon the cusp of Chaos, or more likely on its outer rim.
Siren of the deepest void (literally either the system Siren or Shamash) because there is a focal point made up of Michael Brookes Drabbles which refer to systems in game, the fulcrum is the system Siren. This fulcrum aligns with the Norse Norns and Greek Fates along a line of sight that intersects the boundaries of the zone of Chaos, close to its northern axis. Very close to Shamash.
Vagabonds heart - Either Gilgamesh and the quest for the ‘thorny branch’ aka Art Tornqvist or to the Cedar Forest (Eden); or Satans journey towards the pendant globe and to Eden.
Everything else is an extrapolation of spacial location mapping, literary contextualisation and analytical backcasting. I suspect there is a missing context to Princess Astrophel which ought to draw our attention to some type of ‘upward’ direction. I feel the injection of the Brookes Tours, its heavy references towards Artemis and John Milton, was a heavy clue from FD to look upwards, along a certain axis which denotes the East / West alignment.
I think many other aspects of the toast could be identified if one chooses to accept that general area Ive proposed to be true, but certainly more insight is required.
In many respects I feel certain aspects of the toast reflect different theologies and mythologies, including references to Robert Holdstock and the Epic of Gilgamesh.
I believe much of the Codex is poetic allegory. And it’s intentionally perplexing because I believe it was written after the fact, to describe something already built, constructed from various elements and spanning a huge area.
The remaining elements I feel could likewise be linked if one wanted to, at present it’s open to interpretation. But I feel the locational information and literary context form a strong conclusion this is the correct area.
Regards the logo, I cannot say for certain.
At most I believe this is an abstract representation of the cosmological model, but seen from above (?), certainly the inner circle represents Raxxla as an omphalos, the three arches I feel represent some tri-party deity. The dashed lines hexagon denotes something hidden or obfuscated.
Note that in Paradise Lost Eden was inside a Crystalline Sphere, which existed in chaos.
Some or all aspects of this model could with a high level of scepticism - be depicted in the station garden shown below, its total tin-foil at present but could it be a coy reference to the landscape artist Prince Hermann Ludwig Heinrich von Pückler-Muskau, inventor of the word fernweh?
I suspect that it’s not but - if true, this image could be a direct and brazen system map, which shows not only the cosmological model, but also what the system physically looks like. At most I present this as a tin-foil conjecture but all other assumptions above I feel are more concrete.
*edited: the gardens were in game prior to the codex, so this raises the hypothesis from tin-foil to a valid ‘maybe’.
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Good to hear you've considered those other potential bits of info.
Possibly, though we've already discussed the possibility of the tripartite and "corridors" relating to Hecate.
Zeus was apparently nourished after his birth by sacred bees in the cave on Mount Ida where Rhea hid him from Cronus after (possibly aided by Hecate) feeding Cronus the swaddled Omphalos Stone, so the hexagon might imply bees/honeycomb.
There are so many possible interpretations....
Last Sunday I had a mooch around Rhea and Zeus systems, nothing found, but then I don't know what I'm looking for!!
Possibly, though we've already discussed the possibility of the tripartite and "corridors" relating to Hecate.
Zeus was apparently nourished after his birth by sacred bees in the cave on Mount Ida where Rhea hid him from Cronus after (possibly aided by Hecate) feeding Cronus the swaddled Omphalos Stone, so the hexagon might imply bees/honeycomb.
There are so many possible interpretations....
Last Sunday I had a mooch around Rhea and Zeus systems, nothing found, but then I don't know what I'm looking for!!
When did those station gardens come into the game?
Now that is a very good question.
So far an initial search shows Cmdrs finding the palm tree stations circa October 2015, the Codex was inserted May 2018.
As to whether the ‘gardens’ were part of that update I currently cannot confirm.
They were certainly in game potentially in some initial ‘basic’ form and I believe may originally have had covers? It’s possible those which we see now might have been added later on, as a remodel? But I’m speculating.
There likely is a patch note about this somewhere…
So far an initial search shows Cmdrs finding the palm tree stations circa October 2015, the Codex was inserted May 2018.
As to whether the ‘gardens’ were part of that update I currently cannot confirm.
They were certainly in game potentially in some initial ‘basic’ form and I believe may originally have had covers? It’s possible those which we see now might have been added later on, as a remodel? But I’m speculating.
There likely is a patch note about this somewhere…
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Don't remember the pools being mentioned in any patch note. When I first started playing in late 2015 all stations IIRC were fairly plain, but that may have just been the systems I was visiting at the start. I think the pools were implemented together with the palm trees & statues when the luxury interior stations appeared....might have been 2015, though I would have guessed 2016.
I remember thinking when I first saw the pools that they looked like a clue...might be to Milton's cosmology, or maybe a direct system map? FD were doing a lot of the latter in those days (e.g. unregistered Comms beacons clues).
There are lots of visual posts circa Oct 2015 concerning palm tree stations. But the gardens were covered, and looked in my opinion rather basic.
It’s possible these more intricate versions originally existed in a more basic/abstract fashion, it’s possible if they were a intentional clue, they might have been seen as too esoteric and difficult to observe, so they uncovered them?
This might relate to various references made by sources hinting at things being in plain sight, or under our noses.
But I don’t believe there is enough information to confirm this.
It is very much a weak association, if true it would make perfect sense, but I only made the association because the initial arrangement looks like the Miltonian model after the fact, not visa-versa. Up until @CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian posted their theory I had never even given these stations the time of day.
The term fernweh is an unusual word to utilise within the Codex, but it’s equally a very accurate use of the phrase.
If we over analyse its origins we either fall into references to either some 17th century fop, or German travel agencies (some of which had a mountain as a logo).
The reference to landscape gardening via Prince Hermann Ludwig Heinrich von Pückler-Muskau I find very amusing. But ultimately incredibly vague. Likewise the reference to concepts of Germanic naturalism, is far weaker and falls too closely into contextual conceits of early nationalism; so with no other link Prince Hermann Ludwig Heinrich von Pückler-Muskau seems to be the more attractive route.
Still it’s a very vague reference, unless FD seeded alternative references elsewhere, such as Galnet etc. certainly the logical association was the older DW missions reference to the ‘outer rim’ which I speculate was a direct reference to Paradise Lost.
It’s possible these gardens are a lost clue we’ve uncovered historically or it’s just pattern bias. I’m siding with bias but that image is startling accurate.
It’s possible these more intricate versions originally existed in a more basic/abstract fashion, it’s possible if they were a intentional clue, they might have been seen as too esoteric and difficult to observe, so they uncovered them?
This might relate to various references made by sources hinting at things being in plain sight, or under our noses.
But I don’t believe there is enough information to confirm this.
It is very much a weak association, if true it would make perfect sense, but I only made the association because the initial arrangement looks like the Miltonian model after the fact, not visa-versa. Up until @CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian posted their theory I had never even given these stations the time of day.
The term fernweh is an unusual word to utilise within the Codex, but it’s equally a very accurate use of the phrase.
If we over analyse its origins we either fall into references to either some 17th century fop, or German travel agencies (some of which had a mountain as a logo).
The reference to landscape gardening via Prince Hermann Ludwig Heinrich von Pückler-Muskau I find very amusing. But ultimately incredibly vague. Likewise the reference to concepts of Germanic naturalism, is far weaker and falls too closely into contextual conceits of early nationalism; so with no other link Prince Hermann Ludwig Heinrich von Pückler-Muskau seems to be the more attractive route.
Still it’s a very vague reference, unless FD seeded alternative references elsewhere, such as Galnet etc. certainly the logical association was the older DW missions reference to the ‘outer rim’ which I speculate was a direct reference to Paradise Lost.
It’s possible these gardens are a lost clue we’ve uncovered historically or it’s just pattern bias. I’m siding with bias but that image is startling accurate.
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I see a solar system. The sun is not shown because it is a given and part of the mystery - and a waste of limited space. Also because of artistic privilege.
This system has an earth-like world (on left) with a terrraformable world moon that is atmospheric. The earth-like world and it's moon both have no rings because the white stonewotk is the outermost circle indicating land is the last hard characteristic of the planet. Likewise this system has a very small blue gas giant that does in fact have an icy ring beyond its physical surface. This gas planet has four moons, the large one being terraformable (it's possible this moon is not a moon but in synchronous orbit with the gas planet. Finally, the system has a water-world which is atmospheric and terraformable with one moon.
The system may or may not have other planets but the ones ones shown have to be included. Find this system and you may find a clue.
This system has an earth-like world (on left) with a terrraformable world moon that is atmospheric. The earth-like world and it's moon both have no rings because the white stonewotk is the outermost circle indicating land is the last hard characteristic of the planet. Likewise this system has a very small blue gas giant that does in fact have an icy ring beyond its physical surface. This gas planet has four moons, the large one being terraformable (it's possible this moon is not a moon but in synchronous orbit with the gas planet. Finally, the system has a water-world which is atmospheric and terraformable with one moon.
The system may or may not have other planets but the ones ones shown have to be included. Find this system and you may find a clue.
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Interesting, but don't follow your logic. Can you number the features on the pic you think are indicative and explain your logic a little clearer?
You've got to make allowances for us very senior pilots, speak very clearly and slowly!
I follow his logic, but I don't agree with his conclusion, this is just a garden using circular paths as humanity has done for thousands of years and isn't meant to represent a solar system, but you could, at a stretch, interpret it that way.
It is pretty vague and open to interpretation. Are those trees ‘Cedars’?
Cedars denoted the boundary hill of Paradise, they also denoted a mystical forest in the Epic of Gilgamesh!
There’s lots here that could be misinterpreted and of course this is only one garden design of several, are those others relevant? again if correct I suspect it’s at best an abstract reference seeded as part of FD environmental storytelling.
They gave us a clue regarding the DW concerning the hint about a gas giant with eight moons (rather common apparently)…. This could just be another example of this type of ambiguity, or of omphaloskepsis.
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Interesting, but don't follow your logic. Can you number the features on the pic you think are indicative and explain your logic a little clearer?
You've got to make allowances for us very senior pilots, speak very clearly and slowly!
Mmm, I think this interpretation is sketchy. Why is the circle on the right a WW whereas the middle is a blue GG and the leftmost area of blue is ignored or it's Hell? Why are those moons terraformable? Why earth-like? This interpretation to me seems inconsistent to the point of wild conjecture and pareidolia. What do the short straight "paths" mean? They are above and below two of the circles and also one connecting "path", and are too short to be proper garden paths , they start and end nowhere so cannot be walked properly so ought to carry some meaning but this interpretation ignores them...I don't have a thought on their meaning as yet but I can't see how they can be arbitrarily ignored.
This pattern is supposed to represent a garden layout with pools of water, so IMHO the colour blue is likely meaningless. If I were interpreting this garden pattern as a map I would say it represents:
A star, two asteroid belts, and a small planet (though it might instead represent a small star in a binary orbit). Then a single-ringed GG with three moons in a binary orbit with a large planet, then a double-ringed GG and a smaller planet on the outer rim.
But the interpretation depends on the level of abstraction you assume this represents. It could instead represent a system with a star, two asteroid belts (or none, could just be paths) , perhaps the hollow ring overlying the "star" is a ringed station? Or maybe it indicates the star is type "O"? Then four rocky planets with asteroid belt between third and fourth, then a double ringed GG and finally a planet which is Raxxla ("outer rim").
Or maybe .................
This pattern is supposed to represent a garden layout with pools of water, so IMHO the colour blue is likely meaningless. If I were interpreting this garden pattern as a map I would say it represents:
A star, two asteroid belts, and a small planet (though it might instead represent a small star in a binary orbit). Then a single-ringed GG with three moons in a binary orbit with a large planet, then a double-ringed GG and a smaller planet on the outer rim.
But the interpretation depends on the level of abstraction you assume this represents. It could instead represent a system with a star, two asteroid belts (or none, could just be paths) , perhaps the hollow ring overlying the "star" is a ringed station? Or maybe it indicates the star is type "O"? Then four rocky planets with asteroid belt between third and fourth, then a double ringed GG and finally a planet which is Raxxla ("outer rim").
Or maybe .................
Exactly.
I only brought up the garden interpretation myself because it holds so much opportunity for interpretation. At best it’s only relevance to myself is that the right hand circle ’might’ represent a Miltonian model - it might not, but Im open to entertain the idea, in the absence of any other data.
Let us not get too seduced into believing it’s ture, and accept it for what it is - projected pareidolia.
I like to entertain such tin-foil concepts from time to time, especially when there is an intelligence gap, or where the course of an investigation runs a little dry; and I enjoy abstract ways of thinking, it’s very much like critical analysis, where various theories and wild connections are highlighted and either entertained - because they enlighten our perception of the world and broaden our horizons, reducing our bias, or they generate lateral jumps - which if entertained as potentially correct might correlate to other abstract concepts.
Such a process is a valid scientific principle - however can only ever be utilised when those undertaking it are self-aware that it only ever is an exercise and separate from the actual investigation.
But - the observer must alway accept that such thoughts are inherently biased. Otherwise they threaten to dilute their reasoning and reduce the reliability of what information they have.
So I am not so much concerned about if the garden interpretation is accurate, more so what questions does such an oddity raise, and does this help us in our quest.
For me the primary question that’s been raised above all else was - when were these made?
If these were introduced significantly later than the Codex then their reliability as information drops significantly.
If they occurred prior to the codex likewise their reliability drops as well.
However if they occurred within months of the codex then their reliability increases significantly.
If that were true then I would like to entertain the question of are they actually relevant? If we equally establish the information has very low reliability we can discard it.
At most they might be based solely upon the similarity of the first circle to the Miltonian model, but there are several other designs which are more abstract, so its overall reliability is still zero.
It at best is a curiosity. I don’t propose it’s an actual map - it ‘could be’ and in the absence of ANY information it alone is totally irrelevant. But in relation to my cosmological model theory, it ‘might’ be. But - only in the absence of any other data, it still is only a curiously and I am using it much like a broken flash-light in a dark room, it might not work properly but at least I might not kill myself falling down the stairs.
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I think definitely before the codex, but can't say by how much.
But I would say I've always thought it resembles a system map, which makes me suspicious. However it is sufficiently different to make me ponder how to interpret it.
But I would say I've always thought it resembles a system map, which makes me suspicious. However it is sufficiently different to make me ponder how to interpret it.
I know what you mean, but then I was just logging in to the game when I took notice of this on the splash sequence:
And now I'm remembering how early Guardian ruins where found by matching the stars/planetary view in game from Horizons promo images or something like that.
I know it's a long shot, but could the similarity in the Odyssey title splash sequence between the plenetary symbol and the space station gardens be an indicator that we are supposed to look at them as a clue to planets? The squence has other details - I'm away to record it and see what else I can see [breaks out new roll of tinfoil] - then gives way to a brief image of a space station orbiting a planet.
It could all just be coincidence, pareidolia, old news that everyone has been over a dozen times before and I'm just behind the curve.
Maybe someone FDev cold be like "C'mon CMDR's, it's been nearly 10 years, Imma throw you a bone..."
EDIT: for ubiqitous typo's!
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The specific use of the Miltonian cosmos shape on the left definitely steered me towards the theme of a Garden of Eden / Paradise metaphor.
The fact that MB's beacon references the Pendent World (aka Milton's Cosmos) in relation to Raxxla is a big connection for me. Occams Razor says the garden is just MB inserting an easter egg about his favourite mythological references. However, if this was a deliberate insertion by FDev, then it would be reasonable to think it is pointing us to something.
If this garden was a hint to point out something in the game, then there is a chance the other gardens have some kind of symbolism connecting to something as well. Are there any themes around Paradise / Eden that have been overlooked?
Edit: I'll dredge up my old diagram while this topic is circulating..
As a new thought to update this, the central path appears to lead from Heaven through the central circle... perhaps going "over" this element, but involving 4 locations / planets, then leading to the 3rd circle where the path does NOT go through, but instead goes around this third element, leading to an end point - (Raxxla???)
Flip this around 180 degrees and you have a starting point on the right, then going around a "void", then over / through the central element, then reaching the gates of Heaven (aka a realm of enlightenment, aka Raxxla)
The fact that MB's beacon references the Pendent World (aka Milton's Cosmos) in relation to Raxxla is a big connection for me. Occams Razor says the garden is just MB inserting an easter egg about his favourite mythological references. However, if this was a deliberate insertion by FDev, then it would be reasonable to think it is pointing us to something.
If this garden was a hint to point out something in the game, then there is a chance the other gardens have some kind of symbolism connecting to something as well. Are there any themes around Paradise / Eden that have been overlooked?
Edit: I'll dredge up my old diagram while this topic is circulating..
As a new thought to update this, the central path appears to lead from Heaven through the central circle... perhaps going "over" this element, but involving 4 locations / planets, then leading to the 3rd circle where the path does NOT go through, but instead goes around this third element, leading to an end point - (Raxxla???)
Flip this around 180 degrees and you have a starting point on the right, then going around a "void", then over / through the central element, then reaching the gates of Heaven (aka a realm of enlightenment, aka Raxxla)
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The Miltonian model assumption has been in percolation since the PF/DW missions, due to the potential references ‘obfuscated upon the outer rim, and song of the spheres’.
Many of us investigated this, many of us drew upon this assumption, but without additional context at that time it could not be resolved.
Then FD removed those missions. Likely I presume because they were bugged or conflicted with another update.
Then some months later FD inserted the Codex. Likely I presume as a retro-fix to resolve the above problem.
Then within that text we have ‘to the jewel that burns upon the brow’ - another potential reference to the Miltonian pendant globe, but still no real resolution.
I believe much of this has been because the overarching concepts hadn’t really been made abundantly clear to us, in part I believe because of the significant break in that narrative, but also given its potential scale, difficult to perceive with the limited information provided, and I believe there might also have been a significant level of clandestine obfuscation that FD weren’t even privy to…
It’s potentially apparent there was some correlation here, but it was still too vague in my opinion.
But irrelevant to such assumptions these allegories still, I believe, are evidence that the Miltonian references to a pendant globe, have always been there.
My own investigations drew parallels with Holdstocks Lost Realms, and his concept of these lost realms as examples of Eden. I then began seeing various divergent but ultimately coherent elements which together built a cosmological construct, with an upper and lower realms, which significantly parallels this construct.
Then sadly, only recently FD used a direct quote in respect for the Brookes Tours, reintroducing the direct pictorial representation of Milton’s pendant globe into the mix, the additional inherent locational information, of the first leg of this tour likewise mirroring; or at least, presumably, drawing a parallel to those Lost Realms orientation, but likewise this odd East / West alignment.
I think that’s enough to establish the existence of this concept.
The ‘garden’ concept is only relatively young and I only drew the correlation after I’d been researching imagery linked historically to Paradise Lost and contextually researching the text ever so more precisely, finding abstract replication in game for the zones of hell, chaos of the Empyrean.
Only then did I re-evaluate this garden picture and see how the similarities were so uncanny. But this was after the fact / not visa versa.
I believe my spacial investigations were first to establish the existence of this Miltonian model. This ‘garden map’ might still be only make-believe, or wistful thinking, we happy few willing our beliefs to become manifest….
It would be astonishing if it were true. Equally amusing if not. But the hypothesis I feel of the pendant globe in game, is irrespective of this amusing garden narrative, still - in my humble opinion, a very real and likely possibility.
Again, the integral question being, when were these introduced. If that can draw confidence to this, we have a margin of interpretation, which at best may assist in reducing what it ‘isn’t’.
Many of us investigated this, many of us drew upon this assumption, but without additional context at that time it could not be resolved.
Then FD removed those missions. Likely I presume because they were bugged or conflicted with another update.
Then some months later FD inserted the Codex. Likely I presume as a retro-fix to resolve the above problem.
Then within that text we have ‘to the jewel that burns upon the brow’ - another potential reference to the Miltonian pendant globe, but still no real resolution.
I believe much of this has been because the overarching concepts hadn’t really been made abundantly clear to us, in part I believe because of the significant break in that narrative, but also given its potential scale, difficult to perceive with the limited information provided, and I believe there might also have been a significant level of clandestine obfuscation that FD weren’t even privy to…
It’s potentially apparent there was some correlation here, but it was still too vague in my opinion.
But irrelevant to such assumptions these allegories still, I believe, are evidence that the Miltonian references to a pendant globe, have always been there.
My own investigations drew parallels with Holdstocks Lost Realms, and his concept of these lost realms as examples of Eden. I then began seeing various divergent but ultimately coherent elements which together built a cosmological construct, with an upper and lower realms, which significantly parallels this construct.
Then sadly, only recently FD used a direct quote in respect for the Brookes Tours, reintroducing the direct pictorial representation of Milton’s pendant globe into the mix, the additional inherent locational information, of the first leg of this tour likewise mirroring; or at least, presumably, drawing a parallel to those Lost Realms orientation, but likewise this odd East / West alignment.
I think that’s enough to establish the existence of this concept.
The ‘garden’ concept is only relatively young and I only drew the correlation after I’d been researching imagery linked historically to Paradise Lost and contextually researching the text ever so more precisely, finding abstract replication in game for the zones of hell, chaos of the Empyrean.
Only then did I re-evaluate this garden picture and see how the similarities were so uncanny. But this was after the fact / not visa versa.
I believe my spacial investigations were first to establish the existence of this Miltonian model. This ‘garden map’ might still be only make-believe, or wistful thinking, we happy few willing our beliefs to become manifest….
It would be astonishing if it were true. Equally amusing if not. But the hypothesis I feel of the pendant globe in game, is irrespective of this amusing garden narrative, still - in my humble opinion, a very real and likely possibility.
Again, the integral question being, when were these introduced. If that can draw confidence to this, we have a margin of interpretation, which at best may assist in reducing what it ‘isn’t’.
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