It fascinates me that people think that Rock Hyrax doesn't deserve to join in the game
DLC18 discussion and predictions
- Thread starter Leaf Productions
- Start date
And how exactly it don't?
Imagine if a real zoo was like, "Oh, we won't keep this species, we already have one that lives in a swamp."
"Deserve" is an interesting choice of word.It fascinates me that people think that Rock Hyrax doesn't deserve to join in the game
It kind of is when we have a limited selection of animals, its an online game, not real life. I don't see a need for an Ungulate like Waterbuck to be used when we have many other animals left out that add a unique feature. For example, I don't think anyone wants a Waterbuck over a Hamadrya's Baboon.
This is, a very compelling argument shall I say. Nile Lechwe serves a purpose as a Semi-Aquatic Swampish Ungulate. There's no purpose in Waterbuck currently, would it be a cool ungulate to add I guess? Especially when we still have ungulates like Pere's David, Marsh and others.
When I said deserved, I meant join the game. Unfortunately, you don't have that view for Rock Hyrax to join the game which is perfectly fine. Compelling that you think Waterbuck should be added, especially with the limited spots right now. I don't think I want to risk the placement of a primate with the Water Buck resulting in us having no baboon or NWM monkey due to a small minority of players wanting another Swamp Ungulate, which is perfectly fine but I see better choice in Pere's David in my opinion.
Though, I see no problem with it being added, just that with the limited space..
If the finale is 10 or fewer habitat animals, I really don't want to see any ungulates. The only exception I'd somewhat like is a muntjac because I want to put them in with red pandas, and they are extremely unique model-wise.
If we're getting 10-20 animals, I'd be pretty happy to see a markhor for Zoo Tycoon nostalgia and favoritism. The popularity of the musk ox and blackbuck makes sense to me, and I wouldn't mind them so much, but I would not want to see all four taking up too many slots. 0-10% would be a good amount of ungulates in the finale.
If I can ignore limits, I'd love to see all four plus at least one arid goat, another ungulate or two for North America, some nilgai to keep my blackbucks company, 1-2 more for East Asia for the community-underrepresented players out there, a kudu as my favorite antelope, a dik-dik/klipspringer for uniqueness, maybe a South American deer species, maybe an eland for uniqueness, maybe something for the Middle East, yak, and watusi cattle. While an official PZ animal would be nice, the modders are pretty good at making ungulates. I can probably use some of those for the minor holes that will inevitably be left in the ungulate lineup. Honestly, I would probably use the North American ones the most for local zoos, kudu would replace my nyalas, and I don't think I'd use the rest in this section very often. Of the first four, I'd gravitate towards the muntjac and markhor. I honestly wonder how many new ungulates people would routinely use without rendering one of their old ones redundant.
On the other hand, spider monkeys, howler monkeys, tailed baboons, tamarins, and other monkeys don't have a good base for mods, and primate representation in the game is so poor overall. I don't have enough New World primates to build a realistic zoo, I still would want a couple of smaller Old World species, and baboons are super popular. I hope primates are 20-50% of the finale.
Similarly, bird representation is pretty bad, and we're missing a few key models such as a duck, pelican, small pheasant, and an ibis. Penguins and ratites have decent variety (still missing the rhea), but another crane, flamingo, and perhaps swan would be welcome, too. There are also some oddballs like the turkey, secretary bird, roseate spoonbill, and ground hornbill that wouldn't have a ton of other uses, but they'd be super welcome. That's without even getting into flying birds. I also hope that 20-50% of the finale will be habitat birds. If a few varieties of flying birds are included, they could take 100% of the finale and I'd still be pretty happy with it.
For misc. small mammals (musteloids, rodents, marsupials, etc.), there are a lot of fun varieties that would be difficult for modders to implement. Tree kangaroos and coatis stand out as community favorites that I would personally miss. Echidnas and maras are also somewhat popular and good options. I'd like to see 15-35% of the finale be small mammals.
Cats and especially dogs don't need much or any additional representation, but I like them a lot. I mainly think the small to mid-sized cats have a high zoo-presence but a low game-presence and need at least one more representative. I would like to see 5-15% of the finale be cats and dogs, with maybe a few extra percentage points if I get my beloved serval.
I badly want the 2 missing bear species and think the walrus would be ok. I'm not sure what percentage they would add up to be.
I'm mostly fine with the habitat reptile roster. There are a few more that I would use and have decent support, but I don't think I'd be super excited to see them in a finale. I'd be happy with habitat reptiles comprising 0-10% of the finale. I'm not sure what the percentage would be if exhibit ones are included.
If we're getting 10-20 animals, I'd be pretty happy to see a markhor for Zoo Tycoon nostalgia and favoritism. The popularity of the musk ox and blackbuck makes sense to me, and I wouldn't mind them so much, but I would not want to see all four taking up too many slots. 0-10% would be a good amount of ungulates in the finale.
If I can ignore limits, I'd love to see all four plus at least one arid goat, another ungulate or two for North America, some nilgai to keep my blackbucks company, 1-2 more for East Asia for the community-underrepresented players out there, a kudu as my favorite antelope, a dik-dik/klipspringer for uniqueness, maybe a South American deer species, maybe an eland for uniqueness, maybe something for the Middle East, yak, and watusi cattle. While an official PZ animal would be nice, the modders are pretty good at making ungulates. I can probably use some of those for the minor holes that will inevitably be left in the ungulate lineup. Honestly, I would probably use the North American ones the most for local zoos, kudu would replace my nyalas, and I don't think I'd use the rest in this section very often. Of the first four, I'd gravitate towards the muntjac and markhor. I honestly wonder how many new ungulates people would routinely use without rendering one of their old ones redundant.
On the other hand, spider monkeys, howler monkeys, tailed baboons, tamarins, and other monkeys don't have a good base for mods, and primate representation in the game is so poor overall. I don't have enough New World primates to build a realistic zoo, I still would want a couple of smaller Old World species, and baboons are super popular. I hope primates are 20-50% of the finale.
Similarly, bird representation is pretty bad, and we're missing a few key models such as a duck, pelican, small pheasant, and an ibis. Penguins and ratites have decent variety (still missing the rhea), but another crane, flamingo, and perhaps swan would be welcome, too. There are also some oddballs like the turkey, secretary bird, roseate spoonbill, and ground hornbill that wouldn't have a ton of other uses, but they'd be super welcome. That's without even getting into flying birds. I also hope that 20-50% of the finale will be habitat birds. If a few varieties of flying birds are included, they could take 100% of the finale and I'd still be pretty happy with it.
For misc. small mammals (musteloids, rodents, marsupials, etc.), there are a lot of fun varieties that would be difficult for modders to implement. Tree kangaroos and coatis stand out as community favorites that I would personally miss. Echidnas and maras are also somewhat popular and good options. I'd like to see 15-35% of the finale be small mammals.
Cats and especially dogs don't need much or any additional representation, but I like them a lot. I mainly think the small to mid-sized cats have a high zoo-presence but a low game-presence and need at least one more representative. I would like to see 5-15% of the finale be cats and dogs, with maybe a few extra percentage points if I get my beloved serval.
I badly want the 2 missing bear species and think the walrus would be ok. I'm not sure what percentage they would add up to be.
I'm mostly fine with the habitat reptile roster. There are a few more that I would use and have decent support, but I don't think I'd be super excited to see them in a finale. I'd be happy with habitat reptiles comprising 0-10% of the finale. I'm not sure what the percentage would be if exhibit ones are included.
My brother in christ that's basically the reason why the gaur is leaving the AZA and EAZA, as they phase out the specie inprol of the banteng, this is even mentioned in the EAZA EPP for the specie:
"No roles were established for the Gaur EEP. The main goal of the EEP will be to phase out this species. The Cattle and Camelid TAG has recommended that the gaur will be replaced by another cattle species with conservation roles, such as the banteng."
Gaur EEP » EAZA
www.eaza.net
Key part here. Species are phased out of zoos based on a variety of factors, but "we already have one to fill that niche" isn't ever the reason. Husbandry challenges, conservation value, financial constraints.
Your posts are all over the place my guy. Like, why are you bringing up the baboon?
There is literally no right or wrong answer when it comes to what animals you want added to the game. Constraining yourself with self-imposed rules and arbitrary criteria is utterly pointless.
I literally never said that. It's not a priority for me and I don't really care about it but that's not the same as "not wanting" it.
The waterbuck has more value to me than almost every animal people suggest, because it's a key species in New Zealand zoo collections. I'm familiar with it, I see it all the time.
Again, who mentioned primates? The Hamadryas baboon is the animal I want the most. It's bizarre that you're like, "oh you want a waterbuck? That means you don't want [these random species that were never part of this discussion]".
Edit: If you really want to be mad, I'd rather get the Sumatran tiger than the tree kangaroo. You hear that, Frontier? I bet another tiger would be way easier to make, too.
Again, Its ok to have your preference, I just stated my opinion. Just that every time an animal is added, another animal is not added to the game due to the limited spots. Which can also result in primates or birds not being added possibly.
If this was the whole truth i can assure you that endangered antelopes and horses would be priorised over most other antelopes and zebras, whith recente AZA events regard the Somali wild donkey saying otherwise.
Also by this comment you just kind of confirm there's indeed niches anyway, so i don't see the point in this discussion.
Edit: also note worth to mention that EAZA plans towards other bovines has been the same and the only one affected is curioslly a SEA big cattle specie being priorized by another SEA big cattle specie, how curious.
Happen to have any sources in regards to the Somali Wild Ass & AZA comment? Not doubting you, would just like to read more about it. I find the logistics/reasonings behind accredited zoo collections to be so interesting!
The AZA SPP for SWA was discontinued according to a EAZA report (weird but thats how it was announced):
Go to the equid part and search for the donkey, the last words mention the descontinuation of the program on AZA, i can't really tell you much more rather than the fault of the discontinuation being lack of interest on the specie, as most zoo already have a very popular african equine.
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yes, but that was the problem with what we got in 2023
it fascinates me that people think it isn’t…
And I’m sure it’ll happen again with at least 2 animals in the upcoming pack.
It is important at least because the zoo game is also a building game so even if something is the number one most common animal of all time if we have something that functions very similarly to it it does not alter how players build significantly enough to impact the game long term.
It also is important to consider broad strokes are better than narrow ones a waterbuck may be good for captive presence but looking broadly it is not as appealing because we already have many of the broad categories it fits in african antelope and wetlands antelope. Whereas something like a baboon is more broad in who it appeals to because we dont have any dry climate baboon or baboon like animals.
Also keep in mind in real life the main driving factor for a zoos animal choice may not be what niche is covered because whats available and easier to keep is much more impactful. This however is a game about creating our own zoos so given the limited number of animals we get, covering broad ideas of animals allows for more flexibility rather than having 2 wetlands african antelope it would be much more impactful to the game if something that covered another unused broad idea to help at least placate more people overall.
This does not minimise what people want everyone has their own preferences for what they want and the waterbuck is an incredibly common animal but besides the ability to more accurately recreate zoos and give a stronger bond to those who have seen them it does not offer new build concepts or a ne animal type only making the waterbuck appealing to a handful of people those who want more than just the nile lechwe.
On Zootierliste Common Waterbuck is in 78 zoos (53 outside of Europe), versus the Kirk's Dik-dik in 94 (5 outside of Europe) & Common Eland in 225 (99 outside of Europe).
In any case it doesn't influence Frontier decisions. Waterbuck strikes me as a more generic bovid, so I certainly don't think it'd sell a DLC.
Introduced species as a theme might be interesting, being a topic occasionally covered in zoos, here's some candidates:
American
- Nutria (North America & Eurasia)
- Lowland Paca (Cuba, Algeria)
- Red Rumped Agouti (Florida, US Virgin Islands, Dominica, Grenada)
- Eastern Gray Squirrel (Western North America, Britain, Italy, South Africa, Pitcairn islands)
- Eastern Cottontail (Spain, France, Italy)
- White-nosed Coati (Florida)
- American Mink (Europe)
- Guianan Squirrel Monkey (Florida)
- Musk-ox (Norway, Russia)
- Wapiti (Argentina, Chile, New Zealand)
- Mule Deer (Argentina, Hawaii)
- White-tailed Deer (Europe, Cuba, Jamaica, Hispaniola, Puerto Rico, New Zealand)
- Mallard (South America, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand)
- Muscovy Duck (USA, Canada, Hawaii, Europe, Australia, New Zealand)
- Ruddy Duck (Britain, France, Morocco, Tunisia)
- Canada goose (Europe, Chile, Argentina, Japan, New Zealand)
- Wild Turkey (Czechia, Germany, Hawaii, New Zealand)
- Chilean Tinamou (Easter Island)
- Black and White Tegu (Florida & Georgia)
- Alligator Snapping Turtle (Czechia, Germany, Hungary, South Africa)
- Reeve's Muntjac (Britain, Belgium, Netherlands, Japan)
- Chital (Texas, Hawaiian islands, Colombia, Croatian islands, Australia)
- Sika Deer (Europe, USA, Philippines, Australia, New Zealand)
- Rusa Deer (Mascarenes, Borneo, Lesser Sundas, New Guinea, Pacific Islands, Australia, New Zealand)
- Sambar Deer (Texas, Florida, Australia, New Zealand)
- Blackbuck (Texas, Argentina & Australia)
- Nilgai (Texas)
- Banteng (Borneo & Australia)
- Chamois (New Zealand)
- Himalayan Tahr (New Mexico, Argentina, South Africa, New Zealand)
- European Mouflon (Europe, New Zealand)
- Feral Horse/Mustang/Brumby (North & South America, Ethiopia, Namibia, Australia, New Zealand)
- Small Indian Civet (Zanzibar, Madagascar)
- Small Indian Mongoose (Europe, Croatian islands, Caribbean, Okinawa, Hawaii)
- Least Weasel (Sao Tome, Malta, Crete, Azores, New Zealand)
- Stoat (New Zealand)
- European Hedgehog (New Zealand)
- European Hare (Eastern North America, Southern South America, Australia, New Zealand)
- European Rabbit (Britain, South African islands, Washington islands, Chile, Hawaiian islands, Australia, New Zealand)
- Indian Hare (New Guinea, Andaman islands, Madagascar, Comoros, Mascarenes, Mayotte)
- Common Pheasant (North America, Europe, Morocco, Australia, New Zealand)
- Golden Pheasant (Europe, North & South America, Hawaii, Australia, New Zealand)
- Silver Pheasant (Isla Victoria Argentina, Vancouver Island Canada)
- Lady Amherst's Pheasant (Britain)
- Mandarin Duck (Britain, North Carolina, California, New York)
- Bar-headed Goose (Britain)
- Greylag Goose (North & South America, Australia, New Zealand)
- Barbary sheep (Spain, Canary islands, Croatia, Southwest USA)
- Common Genet (Spain, France)
- Vervet Monkey (Florida, Barbados, Saint Kitts & Nevis, Cape Verde, Ascension island, Saint Helena)
- Green Monkey (Florida, Barbados, Saint Kitts & Nevis, Saint Martin, Cape Verde)
- Common Patas Monkey (Puerto Rico)
- Mona Monkey (Grenada, Sao Tome & Principe)
- Egyptian Goose (Europe, Southern USA, Israel, UAE, Mauritius)
- Helmeted Guineafowl (North America, West Indies, Europe, Australia)
- Common Brushtail Possum (New Zealand)
- Brush-tailed Rock-Wallaby (Hawaii, New Zealand)
- Parma Wallaby (New Zealand)
- Tammar Wallaby (New Zealand)
- Black Swan (Netherlands, Poland, China, Japan, New Zealand)
- Red Imported Fire Ant (North America, Caribbean, Europe, Asia, Australia, New Zealand)
- Redback Spider (Eastern Australia, England, Belgium, UAE, Iran, Japan, India, Philippines, New Guinea, New Caledonia, New Zealand)
- Cane Toad (Florida, Caribbean, Japanese islands, Taiwan, Philippines, New Guinea, Australia, Fiji, Hawaii, Pacific islands)
- Burmese Python (Florida)
- Jackson's Chameleon (Florida, California, Hawaii)
- Veiled Chameleon (Florida, Hawaii)
- Cuban Green Anole (Florida, Hispaniola, Brazil, Canary islands)
- Madagascar Giant Day Gecko (Mauritius, Reunion, Florida, Hawaii)
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This reminds me of the black rhino dilemma. It was never made a huge deal but still a lot of people were making the argument about the white rhino being enough. I still stand by my opinion that both African species were essential as both face conservation issues and are common in many zoos which is the foundation of planet zoo. Not that the occasional odd ball hasn’t made it in which hasn’t been a negative thing. To me rock hyrax would be great but a waterbuck wouldn’t bother me either. That’s why it reminds me of the rhino situation even though same niche in some ways the animals are unique to one another and not the same.
Just to correct something here, the EAZA seem to have reversed their thinking on the gaur - the recent EAZA report from 2023 that you linked above mentioned that the decision was being reviewed, and since then zoos have imported new animals and started breeding them again. I imagine when the 2024 report comes out next year, they will make public that they have changed back to also managing the gaur as a breeding programme.My brother in christ that's basically the reason why the gaur is leaving the AZA and EAZA, as they phase out the specie inprol of the banteng, this is even mentioned in the EAZA EPP for the specie:
"No roles were established for the Gaur EEP. The main goal of the EEP will be to phase out this species. The Cattle and Camelid TAG has recommended that the gaur will be replaced by another cattle species with conservation roles, such as the banteng."
Gaur EEP » EAZA