Powerplay 2.0 : what we know from partners' streams

[McNum]

I've been lurking this thread and as a mainly Solo player, I do actually agree that there needs to be some risk to being pledged. Flying a shieldless cargo ship in an enemy Stronghold system should be a bad idea in any mode. But I want the risk to be lopsided towards Strongholds and Fortified systems.

Basically, if you're in a hostile Stronghold system, you should be having trouble. Super-aggressive wings of Powerplay NPCs that interdict you at a rate that makes the Thargoids take notes. You are not welcome there and it should be very, very apparent. I'd even base those enemies off the Spec-Ops wings in Conflict Zones.

A Fortified system should have roving wings of moderately threatening NPCs. They'll be in "interdict and scan" mode, where they will attack if you're doing anything illegal or are carrying suspicious goods while being hostile. Reskinned Pirate AI basically.

Exploited systems should just have fighter wings. Two or three near-stock Eagles, Imperial Eagles, or Vipers showing up in real-space, scanning you and running off. There should be a reaction if they spot something they don't like, but if you're not doing anything, they won't be a threat. Just a "Scan Detected!" and an FSD jump.

At least that's how I'd expect it to work. But who knows? I'm curious to see what's going to happen with PP 2.0. Since most of the bubble won't be more than Exploited, it means you can still travel most of it, just need to beware going into enemy Strongholds unless you really mean to.

 

[Tifu]

I've been lurking this thread and as a mainly Solo player, I do actually agree that there needs to be some risk to being pledged. Flying a shieldless cargo ship in an enemy Stronghold system should be a bad idea in any mode. But I want the risk to be lopsided towards Strongholds and Fortified systems.

Sounds logical to me The Stronghold systems in particular, with their protective fleet carriers, should be hyper alert, very quick to respond and difficult to infiltrate. That won't stop people from trying to sabotage them though(looks at @Wily Rites)

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Basically, if you're in a hostile Stronghold system, you should be having trouble. Super-aggressive wings of Powerplay NPCs that interdict you at a rate that makes the Thargoids take notes. You are not welcome there and it should be very, very apparent. I'd even base those enemies off the Spec-Ops wings in Conflict Zones.

A Fortified system should have roving wings of moderately threatening NPCs. They'll be in "interdict and scan" mode, where they will attack if you're doing anything illegal or are carrying suspicious goods while being hostile. Reskinned Pirate AI basically.

Exploited systems should just have fighter wings. Two or three near-stock Eagles, Imperial Eagles, or Vipers showing up in real-space, scanning you and running off. There should be a reaction if they spot something they don't like, but if you're not doing anything, they won't be a threat. Just a "Scan Detected!" and an FSD jump.

The tricky thing here is that it's the Fortified systems which are most vulnerable to attack. If you attack a Stronghold successfully, you push it down to Fortified, which isn't great but can potentially be recovered from next week without too much damage if that's all you do. If you attack a Fortified system successfully you push it down to Exploited and there's a good chance that both that system and all the Exploited ones around it instantly switch to neutral because they're no longer supported. Powers can lose 25+ systems in a single strike that way [1] and it will take them quite a while to recover.

[1] If you're wanting to reduce the number of enemy systems you need to worry about travelling through, of course...

doing anything illegal

Just to pull out this bit, a substantial proportion of the things you can do to score points for you and your Power in Powerplay 2 are uncontroversially legal - trading cargo, bounty hunting, scanning wakes, rescuing escape pods, handing in exploration data ... all of that is absolutely "legal" in terms of not getting the local minor faction sending system authority after you. But it still harms the interests of the Power controlling the system, so while the local authorities might approve of you doing it, for the Power currently influencing them, that's the problem - you're making the local authorities think more highly of your Power and less highly of them. So they're going to try to get you to stop doing it.

If you're in another Power's system, and you're doing anything other than hastily fuel-scooping and jumping out again, you're causing trouble.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Well, now we are into the realm of imagining anything, so the question has to be asked, are there enough resources to send ships after every random ship that lands on any random planet? Let's imagine they don't have those sorts of resources in poorer/less populous systems but do so in richer/higher population systems. Also factor in how many planets, how far they are from the nearest station?

It would them make more sense to base the chance of a spawn and how long before the spawn on those, and perhaps other, factors.

This is where I wish Frontier hadn’t taken a chainsaw to their Economic Sim to address Alpha Backer’s complaints about the lack of profitability of A-Rated large ships, and addressed large ship and module prices instead. Because even the poorest factions out there are extremely profligate when it comes to hiring Commanders for low-risk missions, and purchasing luxury goods at outrageous markups… even though it appears, from the commodity markets, that the people they govern are in desperate need of the basic necessities like food, water, and medicine.

It is very easy for me to answer “Yes, they can afford it” to your question, especially when you take into account how combat, hi-res, and nav beacons behave.

On the other hand, Ultima Online rather handily demonstrated what effects normal player behavior can have on a more realistic NPC spawning behavior.

Ultimately, the question for me comes down to this: Is hosting every potential instance in a system I’m visiting worth the performance hit modeling more accurate behavior? And if so, what about modeling the last system I visited to give NPCs a chance to pursue?

 

[McNum]

The tricky thing here is that it's the Fortified systems which are most vulnerable to attack. If you attack a Stronghold successfully, you push it down to Fortified, which isn't great but can potentially be recovered from next week without too much damage if that's all you do. If you attack a Fortified system successfully you push it down to Exploited and there's a good chance that both that system and all the Exploited ones around it instantly switch to neutral because they're no longer supported. Powers can lose 25+ systems in a single strike that way [1] and it will take them quite a while to recover.

[1] If you're wanting to reduce the number of enemy systems you need to worry about travelling through, of course...


Just to pull out this bit, a substantial proportion of the things you can do to score points for you and your Power in Powerplay 2 are uncontroversially legal - trading cargo, bounty hunting, scanning wakes, rescuing escape pods, handing in exploration data ... all of that is absolutely "legal" in terms of not getting the local minor faction sending system authority after you. But it still harms the interests of the Power controlling the system, so while the local authorities might approve of you doing it, for the Power currently influencing them, that's the problem - you're making the local authorities think more highly of your Power and less highly of them. So they're going to try to get you to stop doing it.

If you're in another Power's system, and you're doing anything other than hastily fuel-scooping and jumping out again, you're causing trouble.

Fortified systems being vulnerable sounds like a feature more than a bug, though. That's where all the major fighting is going to happen and why pushing one to Stronghold should be important. Plus it makes it so it's up to players to defend Fortified systems which isn't a bad thing, no matter what mode you play.

And yes, I agree that "illegal" is probably the wrong word here. Since everything is Powerplay now, you probably only get a clean slate as a non-ally if your ship has no cargo and no active missions. If you have limpets and a Recon Controller, you're suspect.

But we'll have to wait and see. I am a little worried that the NPC aggression is going to be weird. Being repeatedly interdicted when you're off doing something else won't be fun, but being unopposed when actively doing Powerplay is likewise kind of dull. It's why my Cutter has shields and guns. It's meant to get pulled over and fight its way out. That's why I use it instead of a Type-9.

 

[Neestar]

If you're in another Power's system, and you're doing anything other than hastily fuel-scooping and jumping out again, you're causing trouble.

Does that include like just basic scanning & 'Exploration' too?

On the other hand, Ultima Online rather handily demonstrated what effects normal player behavior can have on a more realistic NPC spawning behavior.

Can you elaborate in greater detail about what you mean? ( i never got to play UO )

 

[Darkfyre99]

And yes, I agree that "illegal" is probably the wrong word here. Since everything is Powerplay now, you probably only get a clean slate as a non-ally if your ship has no cargo and no active missions. If you have limpets and a Recon Controller, you're suspect.

You’re a suspect as long as you’re in the system, even with a completely stripped down ship. You can still scan ships, after all. I’ve long ago gotten ito the habit of passively scanning ships in Supercruise for their encoded data materials.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Does that include like just basic scanning & 'Exploration' too?

Exploration scanning the system you're in with the FSS/DSS is probably (surprisingly!) safe, since you can't sell that data locally. Any exploration data already on board your ship might be something they don't want you selling, though.

Scanning of ships/wakes in supercruise or normal space is definitely a threat, though. You don't get many merits for it, but you do get some.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Can you elaborate in greater detail about what you mean? ( i never got to play UO )

Basically, the original plan for Ultima Online was to have a realistic “ecosystem” for monsters and animals, and an realistic NPC driven economy, kind of like a certain game’s plan for having ten NPCs for every player. What the development team expected was that players would hunt the most dangerous monsters, a leaving the lesser animals alone, and protect NPCs to strengthen the economy. Instead players killed everything in sight, cut down every tree, and pretty much turned the game into a wasteland.

 

[DSS Lev]

Possibly of interest, the same CMDR (@DSS Lev ) has posted a WIP spreadsheet of merits earned by various PP actions in a different reddit thread. It also highlights some potential implementation issues.

Thanks for appreciating my work o7

 

[WILLIAM BILL ADAMA]

I wonder it's possible to unlock first powerplay 2.0 module right after update if we stack 20000 rare goods in FC before update.

 

[Tifu]

I wonder it's possible to unlock first powerplay 2.0 module right after update if we stack 20000 rare goods in FC before update.

I think it's worth a try - and at the very least you'll know how far 20k rare goods will take you

 

[Felix DiCestria]

Ever hear of radar? Why do Eurofighter Typhoons fly out over the North Sea?

They appear because something unwanted is trespassing.

If that huge planet is somewhere remote, in an exploited system then I'm cool with having less chances (going down to zero) the further out you go.

Can you spot the difference between this:

and this?

 

[Rubbernuke]

Can you spot the difference between this:

and this?

Last time I checked, airliners don't have USAF transponders that identify themselves as combatants.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Was about to reply to the now closed thread on the latest Galnet News video on the mechanics, so i'll just post it here:

Just taken a quick look. Mechanics look way better than PP1. A lot more interesting, varied, and engaging.

I might give it a try, but still put off a lot by the hostile NPC mechanics. Will have to see just how bad it is and whether can live with it. Unfortunately, I just love roaming the bubble too much to limit myself if it means getting attacked constantly.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Was about to reply to the now closed thread on the latest Galnet News video on the mechanics, so i'll just post it here:

Just taken a quick look. Mechanics look way better than PP1. A lot more interesting, varied, and engaging.

I might give it a try, but still put off a lot by the hostile NPC mechanics. Will have to see just how bad it is and whether can live with it. Unfortunately, I just love roaming the bubble too much to limit myself if it means getting attacked constantly.

The problem is, people want everything and not make choices. They love the idea of a galaxy of consequences until those consequences affect them and they don't adapt.

There is a balance to be struck, but at its heart other powers will come after you and there should be nothing to stop them doing so. PP2 should not become a passive layer like the BGS where neutrality is possible, because thats not its nature as a foreground conflict sim like Thargoids are. It does not matter if you are scanning rocks or blowing up ships, if you are earning merits you are acting against other powers by propping up your own.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

This can go two ways: Either PP2 finally makes people not fly paper planes anymore, or the complaints stack up to the moon until the PP NPCs get nerfed into the ground. Personally, I think I wouldn't mind NPCs be a little more aggressive so long as it doesn't get in the way or even prohibitive of other gameplay.

 

[Wily Rites]

Sounds logical to me The Stronghold systems in particular, with their protective fleet carriers, should be hyper alert, very quick to respond and difficult to infiltrate. That won't stop people from trying to sabotage them though(looks at @Wily Rites)

I'm experimenting with new a better ways to boot up my shields when coming out of silent running, honing my edge if you will, looks like there will be plenty of opportunities for testing stealth builds in the very near future!

 

[Wily Rites]

Was about to reply to the now closed thread on the latest Galnet News video on the mechanics, so i'll just post it here:

Just taken a quick look. Mechanics look way better than PP1. A lot more interesting, varied, and engaging.

I might give it a try, but still put off a lot by the hostile NPC mechanics. Will have to see just how bad it is and whether can live with it. Unfortunately, I just love roaming the bubble too much to limit myself if it means getting attacked constantly.

I'm waiting to try it out, I currently depend heavily on out of game community software to generate interesting routes to take, and I'm getting the impression that I might well find fun voyages to take from the in game panels with this new system.

... Also waiting to try before drawing any conclusions.

 

[Tifu]

Pledged PP 2.0 players may have to get used to plotting their trade routes to cross friendly space as much as possible. Currently, the route plot is just a straight line through potentially hostile enemy territory. But that's assuming PP security police & agents don't get nerfed to the ground. Hopefully not