Opinion: 10 LY range for colonization is ridiculously low.

Mersozz

Mersozz
Riverside said:
Not posted about the new colonisation mechanism before, it is something that interests me as a potential project to work on essentially alone as so many of my other achievements have been over the years.

I think the expansion range is a way to limit how much of the galaxy can be colonised & much like ship jump range over the years it's something that can be increased as time goes on. This far into the game I don't see much benefit to that initial limitation though apart from a lack of confidence in what the playerbase could do that cannot be undone.

But mostly if I am to do it alone or as part of a small player group I think the system I 'create' would be extremely vulnerable to invasion & takeover by any of the well established large expansionist factions which is not my idea of fun at all. Being the architect would be fun, and presumably that could not be taken away from me but I'd have an opinion on what factions should fill the 7 slots (assuming it works this way).

Honestly I think I'd prefer to create a system more like those on the colonia bridge where there were just the native lawful faction & a local anarchy, far enough away that it wouldn't be vulnerable to invasion unless another system within range were colonised (potentially ending up with a mini-bubble like Colonia.

Watching with interest though, in principle 10ly for the initial rush of enthusiasm should limit the damage that cannot be undone then increase it further down the line once the playerbase gets used to the new mechanism.
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I agree the proposed (and very tentative) 10LY range is meant to keep the kids inside the playpen so FDev can measure the impact of the new feature. I would expect that to increase over time as feedback is received.

I think for many players, colonization will supplant BGS as their primary activity. Players who worked BGS and minor factions as a way to exert some influence on the galaxy will use colonization to meet that interest. I expect many will want to move out of the tidal zones of BGS and PP in order to achieve as much control over their systems as possible.

Colonization will likely take a good amount of time and in game resources (credits, materials, etc). Putting in the effort to get something off the ground, only to have the local expansionist group move in, will definitely kill the buzz for many.

The options to prevent outsider groups from taking over systems might create more problems than they solve....
  1. One option, which I mentioned elsewhere, would be to give the system architect control over docking access, similar to fleet carriers. In a normal state of affairs, everyone could use the system. But the SA would have recourse to impose a sort of martial law if they felt they needed to defend the system. Then again, that could create it's own set of issues, notably if missions were populating in and out of the system.
  2. Another option would be to keep only a single faction (the SA's faction) in the system... sort of how Odyssey settlements work.
  3. Yet another option would be to lock the founding faction at a 55% floor. Other factions could enter but they would never be able to engage in a control conflcit with the founding faction. I'm not sure if the game's BGS code could accomodate that.

Another issue is that PMFs are no longer being added into the game. I'd imagine someone colonizing a system would like to have their own faction coming in, rather than having to pick some random faction they have no connection to. That's not an issue for me (my PMF is already in game), but it could be an issue for others.
 
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Mersozz

Mersozz
Rubbernuke said:
It just means that Powers will expand for powers and those who want to go far out can- the two groups won't really overlap (something that some would welcome).

The big question is really who is colonization for? Powerplay wants it for conquest, explorers want it for doing stuff far away. Having it for Powerplay has a flaw in that it lessens the need to attack others (if the process is fairly rapid) because you don't have to compete.
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My completely subjective answer: For the individual commander. Sure, it's also a good option for squadrons, factions supporters, Power Players, etc. But for this to be a success (i.e., generate interest which in turn supports the franchise), it should be something a single player can achieve.

The idea of buying a ship, customizing it, and then making enough money to eventually have your own starport to hang out in.... that's living the dream, baby.
 

Jmanis

Jmanis
Mersozz said:
I agree the proposed (and very tentative) 10LY range is meant to keep the kids inside the playpen so FDev can measure the impact of the new feature. I would expect that to increase over time as feedback is received.
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I would think the better option would be to wait and see what areas players hold interest in over time, and then maybe run a CG to seed colonies in the more popular ones (heck, maybe even a vector for injecting particular factions) so that surrounding systems have fair claim for others, and there's no arguments around who "owns" special systems... answer being "FD owns them".
 

CMDR Daiyus

CMDR Daiyus
Koma Pahu said:
It’d far less controversial to extend the range than it would be to reduce it. - we all know how much this community likes the “nerf bat”!
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It's like haggling prices. Give yourself wiggle room to be haggled down to the price you're willing to accept. In this case I expect there are technical reasons for keeping the range low, like BGS and PP2.0, as they clearly want the systems to integrate. Realistically I can see 30Ly being allowed, but it'll still leave long range explorers who want to start deep-space colonies out in the cold.

That said, they said it'd be in the Bubble only for now. It may be that they'll start allowing expansion from other population centres, like Colonia, once they've ironed out any issues in the basic system, then maybe from any populated system later down the line. I can't say I blame them for wanting to be a little conservative on how quickly it gets rolled out considering the teething issues PP2.0 has had.
 

Kissamies

Kissamies
It's true that this 10 ly range is probably just them being conservative or selling it short so that the actual range they are aiming for would impress us when they unveil it. However, I think it's indicative of the scale we will be probably operating. I always feared it would be something like BGS faction/PP 2.0 expansion range as the maximum. Let's say about 30 ly. That's nowhere near for my ambitions. The system/region I have been eyeing for years is 5.5 kly from the Bubble and 1.5 kly from nearest inhabited system. I'm not leapfrogging there with range like that.

What I might see myself colonising with that range might be some brown dwarf system between our PMF systems just to check the feature out, but I wouldn't be very committed to it. If they allowed colonising outside the Bubble, I might see myself participating in joint efforts to build new minibubbles around systems like Rohini or Explorer's Anchorage.
 

John Xenir

John Xenir
Kissamies said:
What I might see myself colonising with that range might be some brown dwarf system between our PMF systems just to check the feature out, but I wouldn't be very committed to it. If they allowed colonising outside the Bubble, I might see myself participating in joint efforts to build new minibubbles around systems like Rohini or Explorer's Anchorage.
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True. This seems like one of those features that the explo part of community eagerly awaits, so limiting it to 10 Ly as a destination value seems completely backwards. I think it's only for the beta, to test it out, see how it ties with the rest of the cogs (or doesn't), and then we'll see production release with a different value.
We'll have to wait and see, cause for now it seems we're debating over non-existing issues (and FDev could also clearly relay the message... Unless they have?)
 

KKomrade Sylas

KKomrade Sylas
10 is very low. 1000ly is extremely high. I think a good number would be 30-40 ly, mainly so it allows the players to set a good route out of the bubble without having to zig zag between systems depending on how far they are to each other. If you want to try and get to beagle point though, it should probably take you a couple of years to get there unless you have a ton of players involved in helping you out and organizing it.
 

Michael Ryan

Michael Ryan
KKomrade Sylas said:
10 is very low. 1000ly is extremely high. I think a good number would be 30-40 ly, mainly so it allows the players to set a good route out of the bubble without having to zig zag between systems depending on how far they are to each other. If you want to try and get to beagle point though, it should probably take you a couple of years to get there unless you have a ton of players involved in helping you out and organizing it.
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If you have 40 ly, once a week you need 1630 weeks to get this from the Bubble, what means 31 years.
Even if you could start from the Sagittarius it is still around 20 years.
 

yianniv

yianniv
I still think and hope we get two different colonization ships, one long range with some compromise on the size of colony and a short range, that can spread in nearby systems and colonise them fully.
 

KKomrade Sylas

KKomrade Sylas
Michael Ryan said:
If you have 40 ly, once a week you need 1630 weeks to get this from the Bubble, what means 31 years.
Even if you could start from the Sagittarius it is still around 20 years.
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Okay don't shame me I didn't do the maffs. You're right, it probably needs a much bigger number to at least make those long range things viable if done in a group in a timeline where it can be completed before the climate wars in real life
 

KKomrade Sylas

KKomrade Sylas
Easy said:
Does anyone know if player settlements will eventually be able to host colonization brokers?
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In the stream they did, they specifically confirmed without any doubt that once the primary starport of a system is completed and the system is "colonized", the starport will spawn a colonization contact for you to be able to expand from the system itself that you just built
 

DoG Duggy

DoG Duggy
i dont see why a maximum expansion range needs to be set. if someone wants to make an inhabited system in the dryman area for instance, Fdev just need to increase the "materials/goods" cost to creating a populated system somehow tied to distance from the bubble that way a squadron or group of explorers could all work together over a greater period of time do do a large jump rather than litter the galaxy with never visited stepping stone systems.
 

Don Alvarez

Don Alvarez
DoG Duggy said:
i dont see why a maximum expansion range needs to be set. if someone wants to make an inhabited system in the dryman area for instance, Fdev just need to increase the "materials/goods" cost to creating a populated system somehow tied to distance from the bubble that way a squadron or group of explorers could all work together over a greater period of time do do a large jump rather than litter the galaxy with never visited stepping stone systems.
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I think a colony should cost the same in material wherever its established. The extra cost for the player will be in time spent hauling materials the additional distance. If you increase material cost in relation to distance, the farther a colony is away from supply the less likely it will ever be completed.
 

Mersozz

Mersozz
Jmanis said:
I would think the better option would be to wait and see what areas players hold interest in over time, and then maybe run a CG to seed colonies in the more popular ones (heck, maybe even a vector for injecting particular factions) so that surrounding systems have fair claim for others, and there's no arguments around who "owns" special systems... answer being "FD owns them".
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True FD owns them but if they expect us to work them, the juice has to be worth the squeeze.
 

Mersozz

Mersozz
KKomrade Sylas said:
In the stream they did, they specifically confirmed without any doubt that once the primary starport of a system is completed and the system is "colonized", the starport will spawn a colonization contact for you to be able to expand from the system itself that you just built
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The question I have is who has access to that new colonization contact…. Just the system architect, or anyone in the system?
 

aRJay

aRJay
Mersozz said:
The question I have is who has access to that new colonization contact…. Just the system architect, or anyone in the system?
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Presumably anyone who can access any of the other contacts. So anyone who is in the system and is still rich enough.
 
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