The Definition of the word. Which we can probably quible(?) over, but I think we know what the other is talking about in this case.
Yea. Can it be predatory? Absolutely. Is it always predatory? Nah.
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If it wasn't for the French they wouldn't have won independence so the influence started there really.
It may not negatively impact you, but Ubisoft will have tweaked the game in such a way to to coax players to buy the boosters. Example would be increasing the exp needed to level up beyond what the original devs intended. This kind of deliberate design affects everyone who plays the game, whether they realised it or not.
Would you say that the things you listed have an actual negative impact on the game? If so, what is this impact? We both know Elite very well so it'll be an easy discussion to have. I don't have the Beta insurance and it hasn't affected me negatively one bit.
I'll concede this is pretty bad and I'd be strongly against it if Elite introduced anything like it.
I was merely replying to your post where you clearly stated small ships are for new players, which is a bold and completely incorrect statement.
Yup, and I don't really see it as a P2W, although I can understand peoples logic who say it is...I was commenting on Dillons post, specifically the comment about small ships are for new players.
You don't agree that small ships work well for new, old, beginner or advanced players alike? Just because you fly large ships doesn't make small ships obsolete. It's not really an opinion that small ships are not just for new players, it's a fact. The fact you don't fly them makes zero difference to their capabilities for certain roles.Well, that is one opinion. And it happens to be one I don't agree with. No biggie though. You do you, and I'll do me.
Be thankful you never experienced actual P2W in games where it mattered, when it was actually P2W. Not just "pay to try something early that is marginally better, almost in no measurable way for conflicted game play, in a largely non-competitive game". I've experienced it. It's horrendous and I simply won't engage in any game that has it.
That's marketing manipulation. It is delayed access if you don't pay. The content is in the live game, there is nothing early about it. It just isn't unlocked for someone unless they use Arx..
You can, or will, get them in the game without ever paying any money.
I agree without reservation to the content of that post.
Actual P2W really only thrives in fremium markets (so mostly mobile games). The only actual P2W game I ever played on PC was an old, now dead (wonder why?) game called CrimeCraft. It was actually pretty fun. But you could literally buy weapons and armour no other player could unless they used real money (or you could get funds via taking part in surveys, buying other products, and all that shady mcguffin).
Agreed, and I intentionally worded my previous post not to contradict these facts. My point is when a ship is introduced into the live game it is accessible to everyone willing to pay Arx (bought or earned in game) to gain access. If for whatever reason someone doesn’t want to use Arx on the ship, their access is delayed. Early access is a marketing label meant to prey on the human condition. I’m not saying this is an inherently bad thing, rather it is good marketing spin. I don’t draw a salary from Frontier though, so I’d rather use a more accurate term like pay not to delay.
Agreed. I would add that, were all these new ships only available via ARX, forever, then I'd be unhappy about that. It's not technically P2W (as I don't think they offer competitive advantages, as you suggested) but that's no way to treat a loyal playerbase.
Be thankful you never experienced actual P2W in games where it mattered, when it was actually P2W. Not just "pay to try something early that is marginally better, almost in no measurable way for conflicted game play, in a largely non-competitive game". I've experienced it. It's horrendous and I simply won't engage in any game that has it.
The term has lost all significance. It's now used interchangeably with "pay for something", where "something" can be anything non-cosmetic (and I've seen people call cosmetic monetisation P2W as well - thankfully, this community hasn't quite gotten that far yet). It gets called that even when you can get that thing via in game means otherwise.
This is early access, not P2W. The difference is important.
The worst part that I recall about early backers getting bonuses, that I'd admit could be labelled P2W, was the reduced rebuy cost. But it's such a tiny bonus and, if I'm honest, a pretty solid one for early backers. If they didn't back the game, it wouldn't even be here. I reckon it's OK for them to have this slight bonus. If you don't lose a ship, you gain nothing from it. I imagine the credits my first account has saved from that is lower than the cost of a T7. Even those who PVP, it's still not going to be a fraction of their current credit balance. And I'm steel-manning this as an example that gets somewhat, somewhat close to actual P2W (it doesn't give any tangible advantage, it just mitigates costs by a small fraction). What else did backers get? A couple expansions? Names in the game?
Pay to win, when it matters as a term, refers to when you can use real money to buy something that cannot be obtained in the game otherwise, that gives you a competitive advantage over those who do not spend real money (it doesn't need to be limited to PVP). The fact it's now slipped to "pay to progress a bit faster" and now "pay to get something early" just devalues that original definition. Like, if buying a prebuilt ship can be called P2W then what are we fighting for?
We want the developer to monetise in order to continue to provide the game support. What is monetised needs to be lucrative for them. Getting slight speed boosts to progression or temporary early access to something should be supported, not fought against. Actual P2W is still the enemy. You do not want "lucrative" to go there. That's what we fight against. Not me getting a better exploration ship, or a comparable combat ship to an FDL, three months before someone else. Or a flippin' Cobra MKV
Yeh ok fair enough. I see what you're saying.
So do you think an expansion to a game, that adds more powerful items and levels and content, which you cannot access unless you buy the expansion... is P2W? And therefore, isn't supporting "the concept of a level playing field". And, I suppose, therefore, said expansion shouldn't exist at all because... that's what you oppose.
If memory serves, when Horizones was rolled into the game for free, FD had given the statistic (yes, statistics...) that, at the time of the inclusion, only around 25% of those who had bought the base game had also bought Horizons... (a meaningless statistic as they didn't mention the same for the actual playerbase of the time)
Of course, a newly released ship is more attractive when its specs are enticing and of course, this motivates players to spend ARX on them to get it but sooner or later, every player can have it. There's no harm if you don't own it during the pre-release phase because you can do everything in ED without the pre-release ship.
