What if this ^^^
Becomes this:
The Quest To Find Raxxla
- Thread starter Macros Black
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Becomes this:
The Great Pyramid is quite closely aligned to the Earth's cardinal points; the ancient Egyptians are theorized to have calculated its meridian line with stars such as Thuban (the pole star of their time), Mizar and Kochab.
I don't think the peak level of human intelligence or ingenuity has changed much for many thousands of years. Clearly the Ancient World had language, written records, mathematics & trigonometry. I seem to remember reading they used long water levels in surveying sites for the base of the pyramids....though I'd be interested in how they achieved that since I don't think technologically they had rubber tubing.
In the 20th Century humanity had coherent terrain mapping radar technology. What a shame that it's been lost by the 34th Century...I'm getting tired of searching craters in the pitch dark while Questing! This night vision is a poor substitute
In the 20th Century humanity had coherent terrain mapping radar technology. What a shame that it's been lost by the 34th Century...I'm getting tired of searching craters in the pitch dark while Questing! This night vision is a poor substitute
ED is also a game. Any speculative quasi scientific hypothesis that isn't directly disproved, can be valid in that universe.I don't think the peak level of human intelligence or ingenuity has changed much for many thousands of years. Clearly the Ancient World had language, written records, mathematics & trigonometry. I seem to remember reading they used long water levels in surveying sites for the base of the pyramids....though I'd be interested in how they achieved that since I don't think technologically they had rubber tubing.
In the 20th Century humanity had coherent terrain mapping radar technology. What a shame that it's been lost by the 34th Century...I'm getting tired of searching craters in the pitch dark while Questing! This night vision is a poor substitute
Ah, so I hypothesise that ED is not set in our future, but in the future of a parallel universe which diverged from ours circa 1930 before terrain mapping radar (or any other since our ship's sensors are based on infrared detection) ...
can you disprove it ?
I think it diverged in the early 90's, with the release of FE2. Mikhail Gorbachev is an important historical figure in the Elite timeline.Ah, so I hypothesise that ED is not set in our future, but in the future of a parallel universe which diverged from ours circa 1930 before terrain mapping radar (or any other since our ship's sensors are based on infrared detection) ...
can you disprove it ?
RL seem to be heading in a direction of more AI and less space travel and nuclear fusion, than the game history.
Perhaps it's the Guardian timeline we are following in RL?
Personally I don’t think we’d outlive the guardians, nuclear annihilation is more likely, however we lack the resources and organisation established in the ED timeline to survive it, more likely everyone dies in a nuclear winter. But let’s face it, the rich need slave labour to stay rich, not much point killing the planet if all you have left is a bunker filled with 50 years of fake tan.I think it diverged in the early 90's, with the release of FE2. Mikhail Gorbachev is an important historical figure in the Elite timeline.
RL seem to be heading in a direction of more AI and less space travel and nuclear fusion, than the game history.
Perhaps it's the Guardian timeline we are following in RL?
Sadly we’re more likely to fall into an Orwellian nightmare run by AI.
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I suspect we already are!
I've been looking around for any info on MB's shield but it's hard to search his blog. Did Michael or the artist Luciana Nedelea ever share info on the symbology behind it?
From what I understand this is a viking shield with the central 'boss' handle.
In contrast to his back tattoo depicting a hybrid between biblical and Lovecraftian Cthulu mythos, this artwork is heavily themed around Nordic (maybe even Celtic?) mythology with some christian elements sprinkled in (Michael (archangel? with a halo) in plate armour, the devil figure).
I noticed there is a distinct difference in the gates - there are skulls on it, and there is a 'dark' star shining above it (note the corresponding choice of darkness within the crescent moons and eyes of dragons and skulls).
With so many symbols of death here I'm thinking it is depicting Valgrind, the gates of Valhalla - "the Slain-Gate; Those gates are old, And few know how they may be locked."
Interestingly the devil character is depicted holding up this 'dark omphalos' squatting on something glowing, with 'deathly' vapors rising up from cups (or torches) either side.
So perhaps the garden design is leaning towards referring to three realms - the heavens / otherworlds, the earth realm (universe), and underworld / helheim ?
Perhaps the garden design is a matter of shifting perspective to 'align' to the goal.
Note that the 4 circles also corresponds with the circle of 4 trees within the cosmos view circle - reinforcing this idea of shifting perspective looking downward and "through".
Perhaps this indicates the Way to Raxxla is in a 'downward' direction???
(or upward depending on perspective
)Edit: another thought:
what if from a certain point, you observe a star in a system with a black hole positioned in front of it (the light bending around it), and there are bodies orbiting - one of which is the location of Raxxla?
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The design of the book design/tattoo is detailed in this thread.I've been looking around for any info on MB's shield but it's hard to search his blog. Did Michael or the artist Luciana Nedelea ever share info on the symbology behind it?
From what I understand this is a viking shield with the central 'boss' handle.
In contrast to his back tattoo depicting a hybrid between biblical and Lovecraftian Cthulu mythos, this artwork is heavily themed around Nordic (maybe even Celtic?) mythology with some christian elements sprinkled in (Michael (archangel? with a halo) in plate armour, the devil figure).
I noticed there is a distinct difference in the gates - there are skulls on it, and there is a 'dark' star shining above it (note the corresponding choice of darkness within the crescent moons and eyes of dragons and skulls).
With so many symbols of death here I'm thinking it is depicting Valgrind, the gates of Valhalla - "the Slain-Gate; Those gates are old, And few know how they may be locked."
Interestingly the devil character is depicted holding up this 'dark omphalos' squatting on something glowing, with 'deathly' vapors rising up from cups (or torches) either side.
So perhaps the garden design is leaning towards referring to three realms - the heavens / otherworlds, the earth realm (universe), and underworld / helheim ?
Perhaps the garden design is a matter of shifting perspective to 'align' to the goal.
View attachment 433225
Note that the 4 circles also corresponds with the circle of 4 trees within the cosmos view circle - reinforcing this idea of shifting perspective looking downward and "through".
Perhaps this indicates the Way to Raxxla is in a 'downward' direction???
(or upward depending on perspective
Edit: another thought:
what if from a certain point, you observe a star in a system with a black hole positioned in front of it (the light bending around it), and there are bodies orbiting - one of which is the location of Raxxla?
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/the-quest-to-find-raxxla.168253/post-10345698
According to the artist, Brookes only gave her the basics, it was actually she who developed the detailed themes.
The shield is a different commission made by Brooke’s to an established shield designer, their online work shows a repetition of similar themes eg Thors eye, half moons etc. but it’s evident this is a self portrait of Brooke’s, the axe depicted was another commission he made, a real axe which he showed off at meet-n-greets, and posted about on the forum.
The gates are an almost direct match to those depicted in the book/tattoo design. Their description by the artist mirrors that concept for the gates of heaven.
The whole St. Michael vs a dragon is likely a reflection of the Catholic story of the war in heaven, eg Satan as a serpent defeated by St. Michael. But there’s evidently cross over here utilising Norse / Celtic mythology.
In the artist’s (book cover) description she talks of the devil creating the universe. This ties in with the explaned theology but also Brookes “The Space Inbetween” centric plot.
It’s an interesting narrative reversal, and ties in with Milton’s Paradise Lost, where the fallen angels turn Hell into a perversion of heaven, and effectively Satans goal and achievement was to turn paradise into a perverse Eden.
Brookes did write about Eden very early on (in short fiction and interviews), where he cast Eden and angels as demonic and as wanting to destroy humanity.
In The Space Inbetween it was the Lovecraftian gods who created everything and our gods who stole it..
In arts there’s always a lot of cross-over and collaboration, so it’s likely Brooke’s took the artists themes and embellished and developed them into his own storyline, drawing upon inspiration.
Note Brookes makes little of the stories actual development, however it’s evident it meant a huge deal to him, considering the effort made to commit it to a back tattoo, but at one point in his blog he confirmed it was actually in a first draft state, but he was considering an alternate idea other publication…
During game development I followed Brookes on social media, where he did confirm he was brought up Catholic, but wasn’t a practicing Catholic. In his blogs he was very much into theology but not solely Christian and showed research into other divinities. In in one SM post he showed his collection of Cthulhu figurines, all in a row, and said ‘spot the odd one out’ which evidently was a traditional Catholic icon of St. Michael - so it’s presumable he may have had a deep affinity for the character.
In Elite Dangerous the character Hammer is based on Brookes, and has Norse influences, where he’s described like ‘one of those old gods from the northern mountains’.
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Well that’s if you believe it’s part of the 10 year narrative or not!
If it’s part of the main narrative then FD will only provide clues if it warrants a choice in the narrative direction. There is plenty of speculation to suggest much of the Guardian and Thargoid narrative may have rolled out in the wrong order, eg Cmdrs finding things out of sequence.
If Raxxla is part of that narrative then it’s locked off.
If it’s not, it’s more likely part of an historical narrative, and thus not integral to the plot development.
There is evidence in this thread to support a timeline where a story was actually redacted! If you read the Codex critically with this in mind, it could be read partly as narrative resolution!
There is likewise much speculation to suggest FD has actually been providing hints about a Raxxla for years… people simply might not have caught on to it, because like with Thargoid and Guardians they needed FD to show them where to look…
If it’s part of the main narrative then FD will only provide clues if it warrants a choice in the narrative direction. There is plenty of speculation to suggest much of the Guardian and Thargoid narrative may have rolled out in the wrong order, eg Cmdrs finding things out of sequence.
If Raxxla is part of that narrative then it’s locked off.
If it’s not, it’s more likely part of an historical narrative, and thus not integral to the plot development.
There is evidence in this thread to support a timeline where a story was actually redacted! If you read the Codex critically with this in mind, it could be read partly as narrative resolution!
There is likewise much speculation to suggest FD has actually been providing hints about a Raxxla for years… people simply might not have caught on to it, because like with Thargoid and Guardians they needed FD to show them where to look…
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Its good marketing for FD not to give out any more clues!
Yes I had found the tattoo context and assumed the shield design was him exploring his cultural heritage and literary interests. Now that I understand the timing of the shield after the Space Inbetween art it makes sense it would include his axe.
While searching I came across Michael's axe! The blacksmith is named Michael 'Cthulu' Craughwell. That thing is gigantic.
As Brookes wrote: "The name for the axe [Gygax] comes from three sources - the first is a simple contraction of 'Giant Axe'. The second is the inspiration for its form, namely that of a H R Giger style bio-mechanical beast. And of course it is a reference to the ultimate Dungeon Master - Gygax
"Something about his description of The Space Inbetween does make me think of the station gardens a bit.
The middle garden 'in between' the two could be portraying something like what I posted previously - a gateway / portal looking between two realms.
What if Raxxla has similar parallels to this maze of nothingness? Ancient beings using a device to imprison something in a "complex space in between" much like Witchspace is. If then, I wonder would the Thargoids be the security guards? or the prisoners?
If the door is also the key, then would that make our FSDs the primary clue?
Everyone has access to finding Raxxla, and seeing as it's a "journey we all have to make for ourselves", then the key is also how we get there.
What does one do within a garden? Easy, you walk through it completing a loop. The garden isn't a map in the sense that its showing a system with its bodies, but a guide for the conceptual path man has taken. Paradise lost begins with the fall of man, then loops back to creation at the beginning. Adam and Eve are banished from Eden through the fall of Satan and the garden becomes off limits, but their memory of it remains. The Angel Michael shows Adam a vision of the future of man and that they shall be redeemed through salvation and a redeemer. We all know where that "Salvation" went. My thoughts as of now, find Salvation. Only then can we ask for forgiveness.
Not really. Paradise Lost is actually told out of sequence. But the sequential time line is effectively…
War in heaven; Satans Fall; Creation; Satans rise; Satans doubts; God send instructions; Satan tricks Eve; Humanities fall; expulsion and time moves forward.
The Garden design in game is likely a riff on the ‘garden of Eden’ and how many early horticulturalists were attempting to replicate Arcadia, heaven on earth, little Edens. So I’d respectfully disagree, I think it’s a very specific map.
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In a nutshell…this is the story arc. It’s obviously far more detailed but here’s the gist just to convey that it’s not actually a straight up Christian theological text; Milton fictionalised various other theologies bringing them together as well as astrology and astronomy. There’s a lot of focus upon very accurate cosmology, space and dimensional locality as Milton attempts to squeeze the vastness of the universe into 1600 minds, which is fascinating, really recommend Cmdrs read it.
Book 1 is where Milton asks the Muse to aid him in his quest to write this cosmic history. The story is non linear, and starts in Hell where Satan gathers his fellow angels and forges his plan to regain heaven.
Book 2 is about the building and meeting at Pandemonium, and they decide not to wage war again but go look for a prophesied world to call their own (Paradise didn’t exist during the war, but they knew it was going to get made). Satan undertakes this exploration, not knowing where to go, but he gets directions off Chaos and finds Paradise (brilliant section that - this is also where the toast aligns).
Book 3 basically god tells us his grand plan, and theres more of Satans cosmological journey, gets lost, goes for a long walk, finds the portsl into paradise.
Book 4 Satan has doubts, then decides to enter Eden and essentially does some war reconnaissance, learns about the tree of knowledge and then gets kicked out by some angels.
Book 5 Eve wakes up and tells Adam about her visions about Satan, thus warning him about what might happen. God as a result decides to send Raphael down to them to give them help, knowing exactly what’s going to happen; this occurs over a lovely supper and the angel tells them about the great war in heaven and Satans fall (the first fall) and gives them instructions on how to fight against Satans designs.
Book 6 More from Raphael jazzing about the war in heaven in great detail very weird but rather fun.
Book 7 More from Raphael, Eve goes to sleep and Adam is told how the universe was made, it’s made clear that it was the Son and not the Farther who did this…
Book 8 More from Raphael but upon Astronomy, they talk about Eve and what a knockout she is…
Book 9 Satan re-enters Eden, Adam and Eve talk about farming and agriculture and the benefits of equal labour distribution, they argue, later alone, Satan finds Eve and flatters her and takes her to the tree of knowledge, Eve eats the apple, out of free will.
Book 10 God sends the Son to judge Adam and Eve (there’s a lot of micro-managing going on in this story); Sinn and Death are set free; Satan returns to Hell to boast; God talks about the resurrection. The angels then move the alignment of the Earth and kick start time (up to this point time does not exist); Adam and Eve consider suicide, but go back to the Son for guidance.
Book 11 Michael tells them off, but he tells Adam about the future of humanity which means they have something to live for.
Book 12 More from Michael, about the resurrection then he nicely lets them out of Eden, they leave in tears, but are comforted about the future.
Book 1 is where Milton asks the Muse to aid him in his quest to write this cosmic history. The story is non linear, and starts in Hell where Satan gathers his fellow angels and forges his plan to regain heaven.
Book 2 is about the building and meeting at Pandemonium, and they decide not to wage war again but go look for a prophesied world to call their own (Paradise didn’t exist during the war, but they knew it was going to get made). Satan undertakes this exploration, not knowing where to go, but he gets directions off Chaos and finds Paradise (brilliant section that - this is also where the toast aligns).
Book 3 basically god tells us his grand plan, and theres more of Satans cosmological journey, gets lost, goes for a long walk, finds the portsl into paradise.
Book 4 Satan has doubts, then decides to enter Eden and essentially does some war reconnaissance, learns about the tree of knowledge and then gets kicked out by some angels.
Book 5 Eve wakes up and tells Adam about her visions about Satan, thus warning him about what might happen. God as a result decides to send Raphael down to them to give them help, knowing exactly what’s going to happen; this occurs over a lovely supper and the angel tells them about the great war in heaven and Satans fall (the first fall) and gives them instructions on how to fight against Satans designs.
Book 6 More from Raphael jazzing about the war in heaven in great detail very weird but rather fun.
Book 7 More from Raphael, Eve goes to sleep and Adam is told how the universe was made, it’s made clear that it was the Son and not the Farther who did this…
Book 8 More from Raphael but upon Astronomy, they talk about Eve and what a knockout she is…
Book 9 Satan re-enters Eden, Adam and Eve talk about farming and agriculture and the benefits of equal labour distribution, they argue, later alone, Satan finds Eve and flatters her and takes her to the tree of knowledge, Eve eats the apple, out of free will.
Book 10 God sends the Son to judge Adam and Eve (there’s a lot of micro-managing going on in this story); Sinn and Death are set free; Satan returns to Hell to boast; God talks about the resurrection. The angels then move the alignment of the Earth and kick start time (up to this point time does not exist); Adam and Eve consider suicide, but go back to the Son for guidance.
Book 11 Michael tells them off, but he tells Adam about the future of humanity which means they have something to live for.
Book 12 More from Michael, about the resurrection then he nicely lets them out of Eden, they leave in tears, but are comforted about the future.
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Yes I had found the tattoo context and assumed the shield design was him exploring his cultural heritage and literary interests. Now that I understand the timing of the shield after the Space Inbetween art it makes sense it would include his axe.
While searching I came across Michael's axe! The blacksmith is named Michael 'Cthulu' Craughwell. That thing is gigantic.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tDDloL-yFA
As Brookes wrote: "The name for the axe [Gygax] comes from three sources - the first is a simple contraction of 'Giant Axe'. The second is the inspiration for its form, namely that of a H R Giger style bio-mechanical beast. And of course it is a reference to the ultimate Dungeon Master - Gygax
Something about his description of The Space Inbetween does make me think of the station gardens a bit.
The middle garden 'in between' the two could be portraying something like what I posted previously - a gateway / portal looking between two realms.
What if Raxxla has similar parallels to this maze of nothingness? Ancient beings using a device to imprison something in a "complex space in between" much like Witchspace is. If then, I wonder would the Thargoids be the security guards? or the prisoners?
If the door is also the key, then would that make our FSDs the primary clue?
Everyone has access to finding Raxxla, and seeing as it's a "journey we all have to make for ourselves", then the key is also how we get there.
Yes it’s a fascinating area of contextualisation. The reflection upon the dungeon master Gygax is interesting and I do wonder how these periphery concepts may have had some connections, indirectly, upon how certain initial themes may have been conceptualised?
Gary Gygax - Wikipedia
Eg the phrase “a place which is not a place, a door which is also a key” is particularly unique, but one which has so many connotations to various classical liminal boundaries, it’s perfect for describing Raxxla, but it may have like Gygax a real world, D&D origin?
In Dungeons & Dragons, a "place that is not a place" may be a reflection upon a demiplane; essentially a location that exists outside the normal parameters of the campaign, a small, self-contained plane of existence.
In Dungeons & Dragons likewise there’s also the Sigil, a pseudo-geographically system of portals eg doors, housed in a torus located at the center of the planes.
Sigil (Dungeons & Dragons) - Wikipedia
It’s also key to note, in Brookes blog when he was undertaking research into various gods (see my cosmology theory - as above so below) he wrote about Tiamat, the god of chaos and the waters of creation
and a serpent; and confessed he only knew of the name initially from Dungeons & Dragons and did not know of the original name origins!
Tiamat - Wikipedia
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Drabbles of the Gods
A blog about my explorations in writing and art - with the occasional side order of fries and philosophy.
thecultofme.blogspot.com
I don’t advocate towards any definitive knowledge as to why Gygax is prominent in the shield, it may simply be because Brookes was proud of it, or maybe it supports the centralised character as a guardian figure, St Michael against the serpent, and that Brookes was the Dungeon Master for Raxxla.
This might tie-in with the later reference in the memorial where FD inflected that only Brookes knew where Raxxla was!
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Mmm, I never got that meaning from the memorial...
As DW reported DB said "Raxxla is in-game and we know where it is"
Adam B-W said something like "that bit we haven't spoken about (i.e. Raxxla), there are elements of that which are my favourite"
I think lots of people in FD must know the details of Raxxla, and where it is.