Given the quantity of stuff listed in the DDF that is missing, there is no reason to think such thing is in the game. WYSIWYG
Is Exploration too easy? Galactic center reached already before launch
- Thread starter Toscaner
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Given the quantity of stuff listed in the DDF that is missing, there is no reason to think such thing is in the game. WYSIWYG
Ok, that is something we can agree on, I believe. Your initial statement just sounded as if you wanted something "that stands out" on every corner of the 400 billion stars galaxy. And to be honest, I am quite content with the current variation of celestial bodies, given we find a new one now and then (I recently saw a video by Scott Manley where he discovered a brown dwarf star for the first time and was just in awe. That so much captured why I am impressed by the game as well.) They seem to have covered most types of planets and stars that exist in reality already. Instead, I am hoping for more variance in stories and - indeed - NPCs out there (like all the the mentioned scenarios about hidden pirate bases, military carriers conducting military maneuvers, secret science stations testing new weapons or trying to contact aliens etc.)
I still think that what we already got with the really beautiful stars, planets, nebulae and asteroid belts, all contained in a real space trading/combat/exploration game containing 400 billion star systems is already so much more than any other game, much less any other Kickstarter(!) game has offered so far. I am not a genuine fanboy, but I see that FD has already delivered in spades and that ED (even with all its current bugs) already puts to shame so many other games out there produced as triple A titles with lots of funding behind them!
Yes, indeed. I admire and congratulate the commander who actually did it and managed to pull of those consecutive 10 hour play sessions to reach the galactic center. That is definitely an achievement. I just think it should have taken much, much longer even than 40 hours of flight/play time. In my opinion, even a perfect chain of jumps/refuels/repairs etc. performed by a computer should have taken much, much longer than that. It should be something that simply, mathematically shouldn't be possible in 4 days of play time, no matter how much and well you play on each single day. It should be something people could only hope to achieve after at least few months of slowly advancing into unexplored space...
Edit: one thing that I sorely miss is the possibility to actually fly into a star or black hole. I do not yearn for suicide, but having a guaranteed "Emergency stop" whenever approaching those astronomic dangers just relieves them of a lot of threat they should normally pose to the commanders (even if the ship gets damaged a little when pulling an emergency stop.)
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Yes ED will definitely get more praise if they add some more content, NPC scenarios, variation and social features for MMO multiplayer.
More content doesn't equal complainers. It's the opposite, give people the tools to make their own fun (co-op massively, multiplayer, crafting) with a decent amount of content for the release-version. Then people will have more fun and entertain each other for a much longer time. Sufficient content and social tools are needed until the next content update and expansion.
Scanning the forums shows a substantial amount of complaints about the lack of content and MMO features. The reviews will reflect that unless they improve it for the release build. After release people who like MMOs and space-sims, but aren't fans of Elite, will play it and scratch their heads about the absence of MMO features while this game is described as an MMO.
Some game media are less reliable than others. In the end people decide for themselves whether this game is worth buying and playing. What you should watch is the user reviews on Metacritic and other sites that let users rate games. Will the people praise ED's release version or not. If the release is similar to the Gamma then I'm not sure about the former.
Skyrim supports extensive modding. There are thousands of free mods that vastly improve the base game. If Skyrim is a stripped-down version of Morrowind then Elite Dangerous is a skeleton of its predecessor. Elite Dangerous doesn't support modding and requires people to play online.
Vanilla Skryim has very many quests, voice acted dialogues, side-quests, items, crafting in a detailed and vibrant open world with hundreds of hours of gameplay. That's a lot for a single-player game. The same cannot be said about the MMO Elite Dangerous. The galaxy of Elite is quite empty and the relatively small amount of content gets recycled a lot. It's much more repetitive across the board than vanilla Skyrim.
Baldur's Gate is very linear though and not immersive (top down, turn based).
Yes, like I said people can create their own fun. In Elite they're unable to mod anything and don't have important MMO features for massively cooperative play.
You don't have to read reviews. The user ratings on a dozen sites will give a rough indication of what the people think about it rather than game journalists.
The stuff they already implemented works well and can be increased ten fold for more variation and content. A system-chat, chat rooms, co-op gameplay has been done many times before in other true MMOs.
Do we need a dedicated space for hardcore fans who try to defend an MMO game that suffers from a lack of content and MMO social features.
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Well, the day I see a CMDRs reporting things that aren't just "more of the same" I'll be relieved. A moon venting ice geisers into space leaving a trail behind... Jovian giants with huge electrical storms... Asteroids strangely connected with what appears to be intelligent design?... Fleeting shots of some strange alien(?) craft?.. Ruins of space elevator... A military base performing weapons tests targetted at nearby moon...
My fear is though (as I've said before) is we'll simply end up with Generation Ships in Elite.
this is a thread about the balance of the exploration system. i think we've got your point.
Cosmo, we could debate about these issues for an eternity. I think it'd be better to just wait and see what happens. Most of what we could discuss is dependent on things that are very difficult to predict right now and any discussion we could have at this point would be pointless after that anyway. For now, let's agree to disagree on a myriad of points and see what happens going forward. I will maintain my faith in FD because I have followed their work for 15+ years. I can understand if someone without that background is more hesitant.
My feelings exactly. For me it's a little sad we can access things that are definitely not finished, spoiling ourselves.
+1 Absolutely! For the time being, this sounds like the reasonable thing to do.
Generally I agree. And now I might actually sound like a fanboy
p) but that fact (missing Generation ships) didn't stop Elite from being a great game. Actually so great that we are now, 30 years later, wishing for a new, modern version. Your ideas sound great, and hopefully at least a few will find their way into the game eventually. And given how adamant FD has been about their statement that 16.12. is merely a milestone and they will continue to work on the game (if the worst case of everyone losing their job is not happening), we might actually see it as a real promise (in contrast to all the things that were mentioned in the DDA - those were never promises, just intentions, ideas and plans) that we will get additional content and game mechanics after release.
But wasn't the first commander reporting a black hole exactly what you are asking for? A commander 'reporting things that aren't just "more of the same"'? The only problem here is that with the Internet you get to see all the stuff other commanders have discovered instantly, without the need to discover it yourself. So no matter how many wonders FD might have included in the game, they will all be discovered much faster if you combine all the things different commanders have found individually. You might be in for quite a few surprises if you don't look up the forum and read about the exploration of other people and instead witness all the content yourself.
Even with the stuff that is already in there, you already get those "wow" moments from time to time (like the brown dwarf star and the black hole examples). You are certainly right, that the existing variations atm. won't be enough to surprise often on a long journey like that to the galactic center, but for the average commander that only spends one or two hours every other day in ED (I am speaking about myself here), the sights that are already in there are still more than enough to surprise me quite often (haven't seen a black hole in game myself, yet, for example).
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I support many of the more controversial design decisions FD have taken, like real time mission timers that are connected to the shared gameworld and not to the login time of individual commanders, the omission of the offline mode in favour of a shared online galaxy and also the occasional NPC interdictions even in unexplored space.
But someone - no matter how hardcore he is - reaching the galactic core four days into gamma takes away a large part of my fascination for the game. I was hoping to reach the core would have remained an nearly unfeasible goal for at least a few month after release. So everyone would be left with their imagination and wild ideas what might be found there for some time, while the tension would increase and the most daring and bold explorers would come nearer and nearer each week and keep the other commanders updated via some kind of log. Even if that would have meant that FD need to incorporate some kind of lock that prevents players that are advanicing to fast from reaching the center, or at least slow them down artificially, that would still have been preferable to solving one of the big mysteries of the galaxy so fast.
I think it's pretty obvious now that someone will reach the far side of the galaxy before release, too, probably within the next few days. For me, this is the one, true disappointing aspect of ED so far.
It was inevitable someone with the time and patience was going to make a beeline for the core as soon as the bubble limit was removed. Its an impressive feat due to the time the guy put into doing it, but I too feel a bit let down by the timescale involved.
The core should have been something at least left off limits until the games' official release. Hell I could have been there last week but I decided to put a creative story behind my journey beyond the frontier systems and instead explored the Orion Spur and travelled out to the ETA Carina nebula (9500 LYS along the Orion arm), before crossing the void into the Sagittarius arm. My plan was to document it all and present it in a form of a cinematic video blog to flesh out the journey and make the galaxy seem like a wonderous and vast place - something that takes time to explore.
I think I've captured that essence in the New Horizons video blogs. Its a shame the journey to the core wasn't told in a similar way. I guess the guy that did it, did it for different reasons. But there's no story to it. A real opportunity missed imho.
But I agree with you, the journey is more important than the destination and an expedition to the core could have been a real selling point for the game if FD had made it a more prolonged venture, with weekly updates on the progress being made, with tension building as screen shots and video footage makes its way back.
I can't help feeling for the First Great Expedition guys who put months of prep work into their plans. FD seem to have underestimated players' determination or they simply never thought the current travel mechanics would make the seemingly impossible, possible.
The galaxy should have never been opened up without the proper wear & tear mechanics in place.
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totally agree. i would have loved to follow such a story and it could have been a great PR thing for ED.
While it is a bit disappointing that there's not as much meat to the exploration gameplay as we were expecting, all that's changed as a consequence of this is that now we know the core is the first step rather than the end. Unless something changes before mid-January that is.
We'll also be doing an ongoing story thing via our Mission Journal, but it seems premature do start that properly until the game's story has started at release.
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I agree. That is, the spaceship you start with can only reach a handful of systems each jump. Don't know how far other ships can jump.
Totally agree! My point put more eloquently. +1
I disagree. Travelling around the galaxy, be it into the core or whereever, is p1ss-easy.
Jump ranges between 15-20 are normal.
If you're sitting in a ship that can't jump far you have the wrong ship/FSD for travelling.
Switch it for some bucks and you can go everywhere - without planning or risk - at all.
Interdictions can be evaded / fled from, fuel is free and 95% of the systems have a harvestable sun plain in sight after arriving.
Refueling is only necessary after some jumps so there's no fuel shortage either.
I too am disappointed that the centre of the galaxy has been reached so easily. I don't mean to detracted from the OP's achievement - it is significant... but this was far far too easy.
The centre of the galaxy is to Elite: Dangerous what the South Pole was to Amundsen, Everest was to Hillary and the Moon to Armstrong.
It should take years to get there, with a very high failure rate for those that attempt it. Had I been a member of the 1st Expedition crew I would now be looking at the journey with a bit of a Gallic shrug.
As has been pointed out there are numerous in-game 'faults' with the experience: Missing wear and tear, hyperspace routes being already defined, nothing 'unusual' happening enroute and the appearance of randomly spawned NPCs in the area.
I'm less bothered about the appearance of the thing, since, as far as we know, that's pretty much precisely what a black hole would look like. The clue's in the name.
There is also a 'fiction' problem here. If one guy and his Cobra can make it to the centre of the galaxy in 60 hours, then the (presumably) millions of other ship commanders in the Elite universe have a fighting chance of doing the same thing. With this capability, there would be the mother of all Gold-rushes as explorers spread outwards trying to find the earth-like/resource rich worlds and stake their claim...
...but it would happen fast, within months and years. The Galaxy would be explored within decades. The Federation, Empire and Alliance would become irrelevant almost overnight as new organisations rose in power.
Hyperspace travel is way way too fast for the current political structures to remain intact for more than a few months after 'launch.'
Cheers,
Drew.
The centre of the galaxy is to Elite: Dangerous what the South Pole was to Amundsen, Everest was to Hillary and the Moon to Armstrong.
It should take years to get there, with a very high failure rate for those that attempt it. Had I been a member of the 1st Expedition crew I would now be looking at the journey with a bit of a Gallic shrug.
As has been pointed out there are numerous in-game 'faults' with the experience: Missing wear and tear, hyperspace routes being already defined, nothing 'unusual' happening enroute and the appearance of randomly spawned NPCs in the area.
I'm less bothered about the appearance of the thing, since, as far as we know, that's pretty much precisely what a black hole would look like. The clue's in the name.
There is also a 'fiction' problem here. If one guy and his Cobra can make it to the centre of the galaxy in 60 hours, then the (presumably) millions of other ship commanders in the Elite universe have a fighting chance of doing the same thing. With this capability, there would be the mother of all Gold-rushes as explorers spread outwards trying to find the earth-like/resource rich worlds and stake their claim...
...but it would happen fast, within months and years. The Galaxy would be explored within decades. The Federation, Empire and Alliance would become irrelevant almost overnight as new organisations rose in power.
Hyperspace travel is way way too fast for the current political structures to remain intact for more than a few months after 'launch.'
Cheers,
Drew.
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This was a great thread to read, thanks to everyone for their contributions.
I am very much aligned with Meritz and Gibonicci posts about the current state of "exploration" mechanics. I am using the double quotes because the discussion here makes apparent that there's a difference in game between exploring and surveying. Exploration, besides the "planting the flag moment", is about proving the feasibility of getting there and back. Surveying, on the other hand, is about learning about alien environments and "mapping" them so colonization can start. They're two different activities, in my opinion.
History books usually devote the most space for the first ones, and little to those who followed. Even if the later are the ones who actually produce an useful outcome.
Think about the history of the European exploration of Australia. The first European landfall - that we know of, for sure - was in the 1650's by Dutch trader/explorers. Between that and Cook's expedition - that surveyed the Australian Eastern seaboard - there's more than a century. Without Cook's expedition it would have been impossible the establishment of the New South Wales colony. It's not a perfect analogy but it's good enough - as it contrasts with the later "race for the South Pole"and "race for the moon". Our knowledge and understanding of both Antarctica and the Moon is far from complete.
I do hope that at least Wear and Tear makes it into the game by the 16th - but I do see too that there's little time to get the balance right.
I am afraid that it may be too late for "Pathfinding", or discovering/surveying hyperspace routes, the third aspect of exploration.
I am very much aligned with Meritz and Gibonicci posts about the current state of "exploration" mechanics. I am using the double quotes because the discussion here makes apparent that there's a difference in game between exploring and surveying. Exploration, besides the "planting the flag moment", is about proving the feasibility of getting there and back. Surveying, on the other hand, is about learning about alien environments and "mapping" them so colonization can start. They're two different activities, in my opinion.
History books usually devote the most space for the first ones, and little to those who followed. Even if the later are the ones who actually produce an useful outcome.
Think about the history of the European exploration of Australia. The first European landfall - that we know of, for sure - was in the 1650's by Dutch trader/explorers. Between that and Cook's expedition - that surveyed the Australian Eastern seaboard - there's more than a century. Without Cook's expedition it would have been impossible the establishment of the New South Wales colony. It's not a perfect analogy but it's good enough - as it contrasts with the later "race for the South Pole"and "race for the moon". Our knowledge and understanding of both Antarctica and the Moon is far from complete.
I do hope that at least Wear and Tear makes it into the game by the 16th - but I do see too that there's little time to get the balance right.
I am afraid that it may be too late for "Pathfinding", or discovering/surveying hyperspace routes, the third aspect of exploration.
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I'll be sure to check that out just to see if it stopped him talking for more than 3 seconds.
What's the proposed incentive to spend 60hrs jumping?
Someone will undoubtably grind away to get to the far side, and the top and bottom... But apart from the obvious plant a flag locations?
yea indeed. thanks for pointing that out. i've never thought about it much tbh, but of course it's no longer a really coherent, believable system at this point.
and i'm still wondering how FD sees this at what they will do if anything.
- either it's intended for some reason and they are fine with it.
- or they agree and change it for the release.
but that leaves 2 more weeks, and at the current pace, at which new discovery threads are posted, it will not take much longer than those 2 weeks and many iconic places will be discovered.
now if they nerf it for release and make a full wipe, would that mean we then need months to "re-discover" places that have already been reached in gamma?
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