External View [A definitive discussion]

[jabokai]

You can't just change definitions as you like.

Nor can you -

immersion
ɪˈməːʃ(ə)n/
noun
noun: immersion

• deep mental involvement in something.
• complete attention; intense mental effort
• complete involvement in some activity or interest

Don't see any mention that means everyone achieves those states the same way.

 

[almostpilot]

You're free to create some new language where immersion means whatever you think it does. But don't muddy the discussion we're having in english where people have used that word for years and it has a definite meaning separate from how "some people see it".

It's very disingenuous to claim that a word means something other than what it does just to try and "win" an argument. You can enjoy third person view without it being immersive, there are other reasons for features in a game to be good than immersion. You could argue from that position, that you don't care about the immersion and want it anyway because it would be fun to you. But no, you have to be 100% perfect and every positive adjective that anyone could possibly add to the game must mean something that you, personally, like.

Ridiculous.

Oh sorry, I did not know I was talking to the owner of the truth ...

This is not about what I like, but what makes me feel immersed in a game. This is relative and varies from person to person. But've seen that you can not understand it.

As already said above, ED is just a space game where you pilot a spaceship just as if it were a jet plane. There is no something that I would consider less immersive than that.

 

[Bambi]

This may come as a surprise, but the definition of a word is not reached simply through looking it up in the dictionary. That is a good first step but you simply scratch the surface. What's more, dictionary definitions can be wrong, especially for recent definitions.

Most all dictionaries have different definitions for the same word. How do you reconcile all those? It's simple, you don't. Instead realize that dictionary definitions are simply approximations of the true meaning, which is instead reached by looking at where a word comes from, how it has changed, and how people all over the world use it.

 

[JonnyC0mbat]

How about a vanity mirror in the hangers? Like those muscle bound morons in gyms who stand around gawping at themselves making silly faces. I'd totally do that. In Elite too.

 

[Flyinpiranha]

There will be an external view, of this I have no doubt. I won't buy any paint jobs and many others won't until it is implemented. It's really that simple.

 

[Darian]

If you use an external view in a DCS game for any kind of game play, then you've lowered it to the arcade game level.

Excuse me but we are flying a lot of magic ships who manage to slow down using magic (besides i think the T7 and 9 who have proper booster facing front.)
Flight model of an airplane... weapons range 5 km or so... you need constant fuel to maintain speed... there is a long list of things that where done to make fight in space more twitchy fingers and less realistic. Read some books from C.J. Cherryh then you will find out how much an chess game stretching over weeks realistic fight in space should be if done more real, and she uses jump drives too.
ED is an very very sophisticated arcade game.

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There are many other factors that can create immersion. What we're talking about isn't those factors, but the immersion that specifically the cockpit brings. Poorly done first person can be unimmersive too, that is correct. But the cockpit is not poorly done.

Why must you insist on changing the definition and premise of the discussion instead of engaging in it from your own perspective?

An book written in third person is quite immersive too.
I for example would consider it still very immersive to lean back and watch my ship graceful plunge onto the landing pad under auto docking computer .. (yeah i hate that crappy computer! It is not immersive to have an computer bang your ship hard on the pad in an futuristic game.)

 

[Vasea Azure]

My question to you all is - would you buy Elite if it has a external view from the beginning or not?

 

[Phier]

My question to you all is - would you buy Elite if it has a external view from the beginning or not?

No. It wouldn't have been elite.

 

[Vasea Azure]

No. It wouldn't have been elite.

Little shocking but honest, thanks. Also I'm glad you understand that I`m asking for unplayable outside view for cinematic purposes not some chase cam with hud on it. I will try to explain my point better next time.

 

[KillaALF]

My question to you all is - would you buy Elite if it has a external view from the beginning or not?

As an advocate of external views, yes of course. I don't really miss them all that much, as I rather rarely take screenshots, but I'd still like to have the option of seeing my ship in space (even in combat) if I so desire. I also refuse to buy any paint jobs without external views.

 

[almostpilot]

My question to you all is - would you buy Elite if it has a external view from the beginning or not?

I like the game, but I confess that I was surprised to play the premium beta and realize that there was no outside view.

One thing is certain, I will not buy any painted skin to any single ship, while we not have the external view implemented.

 

[Phier]

Little shocking but honest, thanks. Also I'm glad you understand that I`m asking for unplayable outside view for cinematic purposes not some chase cam with hud on it. I will try to explain my point better next time.

Yea I'm still thinking playable which SOME people are asking for. I think part of the "No external view" comes from the give them an inch, give them a mile thinking in these games.

 

[Crook]

Just have an external view but while external you cannot thrust forward or reverse or use any fire groups. You can still angle your ships for beauty shots but can't actually fly or do anything. Sorted.

Who doesn't want to see their ship fly into hyperjump and watch it barrel down the tunnel externally?

 

[Amaze]

Just have an external view but while external you cannot thrust forward or reverse or use any fire groups. You can still angle your ships for beauty shots but can't actually fly or do anything. Sorted.

Who doesn't want to see their ship fly into hyperjump and watch it barrel down the tunnel externally?

yeah, I actually wanted to do those flyby views while I am fuel scooping

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How many those wouldn't have bought Elite if it had external view did buy FE2 and FFE?

 

[Phier]

As a side note, I'm a former pilot (no longer current). My aircraft was painted. I never saw it once flying. It could have been hello kitties for all I know and then magically returned to a Piper Saratoga paint job when I landed.

Point being, paint is for other people to see and identify you with. I do enjoy the passive aggressive idea of "I won't by a paint job unless I can see it, in space while I pew pew" dev blackmail though

 

[almostpilot]

This may come as a surprise, but the definition of a word is not reached simply through looking it up in the dictionary. That is a good first step but you simply scratch the surface. What's more, dictionary definitions can be wrong, especially for recent definitions.

Most all dictionaries have different definitions for the same word. How do you reconcile all those? It's simple, you don't. Instead realize that dictionary definitions are simply approximations of the true meaning, which is instead reached by looking at where a word comes from, how it has changed, and how people all over the world use it.

How much convenience ...

In that case I'll stick with my definition of immersion.

 

[jabokai]

This may come as a surprise, but the definition of a word is not reached simply through looking it up in the dictionary. That is a good first step but you simply scratch the surface. What's more, dictionary definitions can be wrong, especially for recent definitions.

Most all dictionaries have different definitions for the same word. How do you reconcile all those? It's simple, you don't. Instead realize that dictionary definitions are simply approximations of the true meaning, which is instead reached by looking at where a word comes from, how it has changed, and how people all over the world use it.

What a load of garbage! Immersion is the act of a person "losing themselves" in a game; it's plain stupidity to claim that first person cockpit is immersive and 3rd person isn't immersive. You've seen yourself people say what they find immersive and that it is different to what you find immersive - it's the very definition of the word! Or are you just saying that you are correct in what is immersive here, and that they are simply wrong?

 

[almostpilot]

As a side note, I'm a former pilot (no longer current). My aircraft was painted. I never saw it once flying. It could have been hello kitties for all I know and then magically returned to a Piper Saratoga paint job when I landed.

Point being, paint is for other people to see and identify you with. I do enjoy the passive aggressive idea of "I won't by a paint job unless I can see it, in space while I pew pew" dev blackmail though

ED is just a GAME. It´s not real.

 

[Phier]

ED is just a GAME. It´s not real.

You should try it in an oculus.

View attachment 7180

 

[Joe Akeem]

I felt fully immersed while watching my ship break the atmosphere in FE2. If we're talking full immersion, well, the phone ringing, neighbours arguing thru the wall, toilet breaks...come on. Think of immersion as in 'cinematic immersion'.