Griefer at Altair, Solo Orbiter station, INSIDE the station griefing...

[ronin516]

"Silly" is how a lot of mechanics in ED can be described.

yeperssss

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I dont think it demonstrates lack of testing.

More like a touching naivity. They... like me, probaly never thought that anyone would WANT to do this in a million years.
There are some seriously psychopathic, (or maybe sociopathic), people playing this game.

your kidding right? That's the first thing these kids now days would think of. Hmmm easiest way to kill people?

 

[neXib]

Its not a bug. PDT shoots bullets, bullets cause crimes. If FD says "PDT dont cause crimes anymore guys", and they still do, then that's a bug.

And shooting missiles without being taken out by the station because you dock is what exactly?

 

[ronin516]

Completely overblown thread. Its one player in one instance. I've been in and out of Altair a lot today, not seen one example of this at all. Does this players actions suck and take the proverbial? Absolutely, so report them to the developers for action. But a 12 page thread? Its not that big of a deal.

Not to you; but to everyone else this has happened to (not me) it is. especially when they loose days worth of work in game to an exploit that allows childish behavior to take place. But If your ok with this type of thing, I wouldn't worry. It will take FD months to probably fix it. If they do.

 

[Kayweg]

messed up quote...see below.

 

[SE-Apocalypse]

Maybe not all people want the same thing out of an game.
I know it is an strange concept but not all people do want the same thing, and not all people want the same thing you want.
Elite was and still is "One comander, one ship" not "Goonsquat camping Solsysthem"

Go play in Eve, there it is encouraged concept of the game, but i guess you got waxed there one time too often for mouthing off.

You might want to read what you quote. I exactly said that player want different things. I just noticed that the hardcore "non-combat-and-easy-relaxing-content" focus players seem to complain a lot about their jobs being so hard. So is the attitude towards the game related to having bad jobs or is having a job just a lame excuse to justify a playstyle against others?

It imo an interesting thing to figure out, because by all means it is a legit playstyle and yet people like you are super defensive about it, like they are getting caught with while something naughty. "I just do it because my job is so hard", "you just attack me here, because you got waxed at eve", which would be totally beside the point even when true.

Why so defensive? Just say you like mindless action sometimes. It is nothing you need to be ashamed of, it is your free time.

 

[Kayweg]

yeperssss

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your kidding right? That's the first thing these kids now days would think of. Hmmm easiest way to kill people?

I seem to remember, alarm bells were rung on the beta forums about the the potential for griefing.

Nobody really wanted to hear them.

 

[SE-Apocalypse]

Dunno about you, but for me I get my challenge and do my acheiving out in the real world, doing real things. This can, and should, be stressful and difficult at times. Wouldn't want it any other way.

Games are for fun, and relaxation. If you need to get a sense of real challenge and acheivement from them, somethings going wrong.

On topic I think that the obvious answer, as mentioned earlier in the thread, is to rescind docking clearance as soon as weapons are fired in the station. There will always be people who need to annoy others to feel good, best way of dealing with it is closing up the loopholes and ignoring them.

Competitive players with million dollar salleries seem to think over wise, which does not make your desire to play for relaxion invalid, it just make stating this as only purpose of games and your personal attack rubbish.

Your solution for the problem is btw rubbish too, instead of docking you use than just a sidewinder and keep firing those missiles. You might want to think one step more ahead.

 

[CmdrZaratan]

I agree on all your points but this one actually happened. Must be somewhere in Beta. Don't ask me for the concrete version number though, but that it happened is sure.

Is cool. Apparently it was reported and addressed by the developers, however their fix either doesn't work (less likely) or they've managed to undo the fix more recently (more likely).

So all the developers can really be accused of is being developers

 

[SE-Apocalypse]

Bigger problem created.

Which would be? Looks to me like an elegant solution to protect commanders from themselves because they can not be bothered to deactivate their point defense. Just deactivate guns in the no-fire zone.

 

[lexandro]

Fail.

Its not about "not bothering". Some players are unaware that PD will fire inside a station when hardpoints are retracted. Some players are unaware that power can be cut from the PD to disable it. And some are not even aware this IS an issue with the PD system.

Its a broken element of the game. You should not EVER be able to fire inside a station and then instantly land, negating repercussions. You should have your docking rescinded and be told to leave or be forced to wait a pre-set time. If there are any further infractions between that point and your leaving the station or docking, the station should shot your backside off.

Simple solution.

As for PD, it should be automatically disabled when hardpoints are retracted. Otherwise the whole mechanic of requiring hardpoints internally is completely frikin pointless and just a waste of time.

 

[SE-Apocalypse]

And how about sniping from outside no fire zone into it?

You get right away blown away at non-anarchy stations, because you get the wanted tag against targets who report crimes against them, the station than opens fire and the station guns have enough range to usually hit all targets that shoot into the no fire zone. There seem to be a few glitches with rail gun sniping and a few station guns not reaching you, but outside of those few blind spot you can not fire into the no fire zone and survive. Except naturally for anarchy stations which do not mind if players kill each other.

You can trigger a misfired point defense shot either that way, because the station would be at the other direction of your attacks, so exploiting it that way should not work either.

" Point defence hardpoints now cannot commit crimes" - Sounds still like the better fix, but it not working is one of the many bugs. Personally I would rather first see the randomly exploding at station bugs go away.

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1. I dunno... damage is damage....

2. Careful on how this might work. What's gonna happen if a smuggler gets scanned just before entering the station? They acquire Wanted status and their docking privs get revoked just as they enter a station?

Fines are not wanted status. And fire a missile in the no fire zone gives you a fine, so docking right afterwards would still be an option. ;-)

 

[Spy227X]

Introduce a new status, beyond Wanted, called Outlaw

A major faction can Outlaw the serious criminals, and this means throughout that faction space you have Hostile rep, all faction ships and stations attack on sight, players can attack without fear of fine or bounty

Outlaw status cannot be paid off, like a bounty

If your ship is destroyed in that faction space, then your escape pod is captured on docking and you spend a real-time duration in the brig, say 2weeks realtime, during which you cannot use your commander account. Multiple commanders, once implemented, would enable you to play your other commander though.

Crimes that would justify Outlaw status would be kills in station or in no-fire-zone and that includes ramming ships to death in the toaster

This fits the gameplay logic imo. I don't like rules being implemented that don't fit the gameplay logic or which prevent a player choosing one action over the other. If a player chooses to kill within a station, launch missiles through the toaster or other cunning attacks then they should be able to execute these. But the consequence MUST be logical. Currently the station and faction response is near zero, which is not logical and takes away from the gameplay

but I want to murder NPCs to get a 5mil bounty and then fly in a station's face for extra danger
are you saying that I should get locked out of my account for NPC murder?

 

[tricky]

Fail.

Its not about "not bothering". Some players are unaware that PD will fire inside a station when hardpoints are retracted. Some players are unaware that power can be cut from the PD to disable it. And some are not even aware this IS an issue with the PD system.

Its a broken element of the game. You should not EVER be able to fire inside a station and then instantly land, negating repercussions. You should have your docking rescinded and be told to leave or be forced to wait a pre-set time. If there are any further infractions between that point and your leaving the station or docking, the station should shot your backside off.

Simple solution.

As for PD, it should be automatically disabled when hardpoints are retracted. Otherwise the whole mechanic of requiring hardpoints internally is completely frikin pointless and just a waste of time.

The PDT is a defensive system. It is not an offensive system like your hardpoints. Do you seriously want it so you have to wait until your hardpoints deploy before the PDT can go into action against missiles?

What about limpets? Those aren't ordinance but the PDT will go mental when one is lobbed your way.

 

[SE-Apocalypse]

Fail.

Its not about "not bothering". Some players are unaware that PD will fire inside a station when hardpoints are retracted. Some players are unaware that power can be cut from the PD to disable it. And some are not even aware this IS an issue with the PD system.

Its a broken element of the game. You should not EVER be able to fire inside a station and then instantly land, negating repercussions. You should have your docking rescinded and be told to leave or be forced to wait a pre-set time. If there are any further infractions between that point and your leaving the station or docking, the station should shot your backside off.

Simple solution.

As for PD, it should be automatically disabled when hardpoints are retracted. Otherwise the whole mechanic of requiring hardpoints internally is completely frikin pointless and just a waste of time.

Some players are unaware that players can kill them without consequences at anarchy stations. Should we remove them too or maybe just educate players on the subject?

 

[Spy227X]

The PDT is a defensive system. It is not an offensive system like your hardpoints. Do you seriously want it so you have to wait until your hardpoints deploy before the PDT can go into action against missiles?

What about limpets? Those aren't ordinance but the PDT will go mental when one is lobbed your way.

Perhaps make PDT auto-deactivate inside station and have the station guns act like PDT by focusing on missiles and limpets.

 

[Asp Explorer]

What about limpets? Those aren't ordinance but the PDT will go mental when one is lobbed your way.

I'm not sure about that - I've had limpets launched at me but point-defence did nothing about them at all. They were powered on, and have reacted to missiles as normal. Perhaps a bug?

 

[Spy227X]

I'm not sure about that - I've had limpets launched at me but point-defence did nothing about them at all. They were powered on, and have reacted to missiles as normal. Perhaps a bug?

Yeah they should def fire at limpets because PDT is mainly on cargo ships and limpets are mainly used against cargo ships

 

[lexandro]

Some players are unaware that players can kill them without consequences at anarchy stations. Should we remove them too or maybe just educate players on the subject?

That's a designed game mechanic that is working as intended. This is a flawed game mechanic that is NOT working as intended.

Again, why do we even need internal hardpoints if they are always deployed and active? Its called "internal consistency", something the utility points do not have. They should work in an identical fashion to weapon hard points and require a player to deploy them before they activate. Or there is no internal consistancy in the game mechanics and it makes the requirement of internal hardpoints completely pointless.

 

[tricky]

Perhaps make PDT auto-deactivate inside station and have the station guns act like PDT by focusing on missiles and limpets.

That is one of the better ideas I have heard. Also ECM (the stations in the '84 version of Elite had an ECM) and chaff all going off like a firework special.

 

[Wicz]

That's a designed game mechanic that is working as intended. This is a flawed game mechanic that is NOT working as intended.

Again, why do we even need internal hardpoints if they are always deployed and active? Its called "internal consistency", something the utility points do not have. They should work in an identical fashion to weapon hard points and require a player to deploy them before they activate. Or there is no internal consistancy in the game mechanics and it makes the requirement of internal hardpoints completely pointless.

Agreed!


When hardpoints are stowed, the PDT's should be stowed/offline too, it's really very simple and doesn't make sense any other way.

Weapons are weapons.