Players losing it all and quitting - sure, their fault but not good for the game.

[Niewinter]

to be honest it never happened to me and always when i read threads with "back to sidy" it’s because of the following reasons:

All money put into new shiny ship and cargo and/or flew without shield...

please change your behavior the world will not change ... IRL if i drive against a wall my insurance will raise... if i drive against a wall without shields my insurance will not pay at all.
yes you can lose everything to pirate to bur that’s already in the name Elite Dangerous and still your fouled because you put all your money into the cargo if you put all your money in the stock market IRL and loose there is no magic insurance that gives you your money back.

so no for dumped down insurance and no for warnings it is one click to check balance and rebuy

 

[Mormegil]

The Rebuy cost is always indicated in the game. No one should ever depend on loans. If you do, well, again, you find out the hard way.

You only find out the hard way when you get a rebuy cost over 200k CR plus what you have. The loan bails you out every time before that. You can run a COBRA or TYPE6 for months and get bailed out each time. So it's reinforcing a rather blase attitude. Yes, eventually it will hit you, but when it does, you could lose 10m CR and months of gaming.

 

[Corwyn]

OP: good thing this isn't a subscription model, that would be bad for the game. Were can do without a few of those playing with unreasonable expectations and demands.

 

[Amaze]

You only find out the hard way when you get a rebuy cost over 200k CR plus what you have. The loan bails you out every time before that. You can run a COBRA or TYPE6 for months and get bailed out each time. So it's reinforcing a rather blase attitude. Yes, eventually it will hit you, but when it does, you could lose 10m CR and months of gaming.

I agree with this.

Get rid of the loan. It doesn't really send the right message.
More likely to lure you into false sense of security if you die early.
Though I do think everyone loves to look at their credit balance
and that should show something to indicate if you are over or under the re buy cost.

 

[CrazyH0rse]

OP: good thing this isn't a subscription model, that would be bad for the game. Were can do without a few of those playing with unreasonable expectations and demands.

FD are hardly going to keep the servers up if the population dwindles. Long term it has to work and that will only happen if enough people hang around and buy expansions etc.

That said, I'm not convinced one way or the other. This is a good point:

A little bit back, I wrote up (THIS THREAD) on insurance and how things tend to go. An interesting point in this I initially forgotten to put in (though intended and later fixed) is that a large majority of Players that you read about, over and over , that fall into this pit and Rage-Quit actually do KNOW better be that stepping away when you auto dock, knowing the docking computer is faulty or make a conscious decision to take the risk, fly under insured and/or shield-less.

The main motivator in this is getting a few more credits in, save a round trip or two to the next ship wanted or not waiting to have extra cash when purchasing one. plain and simple, put in one word, its GREED.
...

That said, I don't think that a little warning message when a transaction puts you below rebuy would do any harm at all. Certainly leaves people without an excuse.

 

[Microblitz]

OP: good thing this isn't a subscription model, that would be bad for the game. Were can do without a few of those playing with unreasonable expectations and demands.

You've only got to look at the WOW or Guildwars2 forums to realise that even in subscription games there are diners and whiners. In fact in a subscription game their rallying cry is

"I pay for this so..."

I should get everything in the game with no effort.
Nobody should be able to kill me or rain on my parade.
Every choice I make should reward me.

The result is player like this quit not because they don't get what they want, but because they do, then get bored quickly. Too many players want to "race to end game" to achieve that they want the easiest ride possible.

Why? I simply fail understand this behaviour. Surely if the objective is to pay a company to be entertained, then the longer time you take to complete it, actually means that you are extending your period of entertainment? You are getting value for money. It also gives the programmers and designers the opportunity to fill out the content to extend the game life even more.

 

[Darian]

TRUE: As more people play Elite and pay for DCL as more and better DCL we get (Or updates, or content, or whatever)
TRUE: If we are too elitist about it fever people play the game thus less content (Even if Frontier likes to, they have to fund it)

QUESTION: Is it so bad to have an "casual and not so bright gamer corner of the universe to play in" and have there funds to add DLC to ED

OR

Is alone the thought of having that so nauseating that we have to be very ELITE but with an game that has less content and less updates and less DLC

No one claims all of the Elite universe needs to be fluffy .

Everquest had in its beginnings parts the casual gamer could play in and worst loose a little bit of exp.
The guild raid hardcore places had dragons who camped your corpse with raidgear you had to work for for weeks if the raid derped.

If you where EXTREMLY lucky an admin dragged your corpse out so you could get it back (and they where not really allowed to)

That did not faze the casual gamer because he never got there and it did not faze the hard core gamer because he was aware of it and hardcore and all, seperate worlds, same game, more funds more content.

 

[daan2002]

ah another FD dont hold my hand is going to end the game imo game better off with out them if they want a care bear game go play star trek online this is ELITE DANGEROUS!!!

 

[Mormegil]

I agree with this.

Get rid of the loan. It doesn't really send the right message.
More likely to lure you into false sense of security if you die early.
Though I do think everyone loves to look at their credit balance
and that should show something to indicate if you are over or under the re buy cost.

Agreed. Another way is to get rid of the loan, or lower it to a much smaller amount. The first ship the loan doesn't cover is the ASP. And that can be months after you first thought about the loan mechanic, and you'll have ages to forget the significance of it, by which time the stakes are ridiculously high.

It's worth adding that the people we're talking about aren't the people who read these forums. WHO SHOULD KNOW BETTER. We're talking about the 90% of release players who never come here, and whose first visit here will be to moan about their lost ASP.

 

[Antmax]

It just depends. If your unfortunate to want to play open and meet the wrong people in a string of encounters within a couple of hours. Then it could be pretty bad. At half a million a pop if I got destroyed 3 times in an hour it would be sidewinder time. It's unlikely to happen if you make good use of other modes so you can play with NPC's who follow the rules and your not likely to get grief. But some people like to take too many risks and don't like the consequences.

Just glad the devs are making changes to make griefing less easy to get away with and much more costly as well as persistent bounties in the near future. That way certain people might be more inclined to play within the spirit of the game.

 

[Hethwill_Khan]

Oh yess.. how many players do you think will trade in an flimsy trader vessel as soon every PK with four rocket packs can beam them with insta death back into an sidewinder and here are 1000 Cr thankyouverymuch?
I was killed two time alone so far by buggy game, I would have been sooo extatic to start qall over because the game is buggy and i like died without reason.

If i poke my nose into an anarchy systhems pirate king base and life becomes short bright and hot ok.
My fault.
But here you talk every casual gamer killed by bug ending in an sidewinder....

Sorry to disagree. Your logic is completely theoretical.

Tell me how many times you've been interdicted by players in the last week ? How many times you've been shot upon for deadly effect ? How many of those you actually died ? ... *yawn*

Maybe I am very very very very lucky but since non-reset Gamma I did not die to a single bug yet. Yes... very lucky. But then I do not dismiss the bug death and FD actually reimburses you the full amount if it is indeed a dead by bug issue. You word about it does not suffice.

I have no idea where you come from sir, but "1 life events" are common in my games. It doesn't shock me if anyone brings it up, if any game models it in and I do say with pleasure that such games and events are by far the most entertaining.

Again, the game has all information splattered in the ship systems. There is no REASON not to manage your Elite Dangerous Commander career. You even have a safety net ( loan ) for all ships up to the Type 6 included. If that is not the best help ever in a "dangerous" game I have no idea what games you play.

S!

 

[Mikkel Toxwenius]

Hi folks,

Over and over again we see players in the facebook group and here coming on to say that for whatever reason they we operating without the rebuy funds, something happened and whammo... back to square one. Most seem to quit thereafter.

Now it's very easy to take the lofy moral ground and say that it's their fault for taking the risk they did. But the long and short of it is, it's not good for the game. This game is designed for humans and we have to consider how they are, not how they should be.

You could just ignore this issue and be high minded about it, but I believe the game will suffer.

Amazingly, I have even seen posts where people claim not to have known they could lose everything, although I find that hard to comprehend. People can be caught out too... for example a new module is bought and the calculations fail to take the increase in rebuy cost into account and the player is shy of the rebuy cost without realising it.

Personally, I never fly without the rebuy cost. I don't even risk my trading capital (mostly, have risked it a few times). You just need one-glitch when docking... a bump in the slit... whatever... and it's all over.

Are there plans to do anything about it? I'm not suggesting we dumb the game down, but perhaps there are simple things that could be done without removing the risk management aspect of things.

For example, you could have a system of accounts and you could move credits between them... for example, to put your rebuy cost aside.

Or, a simple message when your funds would drop below the rebuy cost after a transaction.

Or, your insurance excess is zero but you pay a premium. Or let the player decide the risk by having a premium that is related to the insurance excess.

Thoughts?

Basically the systems is decent enough imo opinion(but there is always room for improvements). But the huge problem is that the game gives absolutely no information tips or clues to the player about how insurance works, and the very serious consequences if you can't pay. For example I was surprised to learn, after I crashed trying to dock with at 194,000 cred bounty, that the bounty must be paid before the insurance, and the 200k loan limit will also be used to pay the bounty. I didn't have enough to pay both bounty and replace ship, even with the 200k loan. Basically I lost everything that evening meaning quite many hours of play.

How I got the bounty? As newbie I visited a USS that by chance had large numbers of canisters of palladium. I picked them up thinking I struck gold! I didn't realize they were stolen and when I got scanned later was when I got the fine. Later again I wanted to smuggle the palladium in to sell them and pay of the fine, I was again to slow, and got scanned again and tried to dump them all in panic... In the end the fine turned in a bounty that I thought I could perhaps one day pay off. But no. That cmdr met his doom that day in dock. I cleared save and began anew. A tough choice, but I came over it. I guess not everyone will get over stuff like that?

 

[Microblitz]

ah another FD dont hold my hand is going to end the game imo game better off with out them if they want a care bear game go play star trek online this is ELITE DANGEROUS!!!

Ah but they want

Elite moistly (sic) harmless

 

[martinwright6]

Ah but they want

Elite moistly (sic) harmless

"Moistly"?

 

[Microblitz]

"Moistly"?

Yup... moistly.... Because they couldn't handle it being mostly harmless.

 

[apolloz]

I have to admit I do think this system is a bit harsh for new players. I know of someone who had put in a good 80 hours play and accidentally wiped his profile and had to start again and I keep reading of people who do not have enough insurance and get there ship blown up and all is lost. It's easy to laugh and be harsh, but this is a game at the end of day and I think it is not unreasonable to have a x1 fail safe life to allow people a chance to recover if they do something silly at least once.

 

[knowles2]

I just see this as a care bear filters, after a few months we will have filter out all the care bears, who will always try and push Frontier to nerf the game and make it easier.

An ti is coming from someone who bet it all and loss it all by crashing into a station and having to start back in a sidewinder again, you bet big and you can lose big as well, it a harsh life in elite and it one of those things I happen to like about the game, it could even be a bit harder, anarchy systems are a bit to non anarchy at the minute.

 

[CMDR Bansidhe]

I have to admit I do think this system is a bit harsh for new players. I know of someone who had put in a good 80 hours play and accidentally wiped his profile and had to start again and I keep reading of people who do not have enough insurance and get there ship blown up and all is lost. It's easy to laugh and be harsh, but this is a game at the end of day and I think it is not unreasonable to have a x1 fail safe life to allow people a chance to recover if they do something silly at least once.

I wonder, can anybody else see the flaw in this thinking?

New players have nothing to lose, mate, the loan will cover them. It's a non-issue.

 

[RipperJack]

This will proberly get lost in the flood of messages on here atm but i'll throw in what i always thought should be implemented that resolves both the loss but also keeps the punishment.

When your ship is lost and you cant afford the replacement, instead of saying tough luck, heres a sidewinder and 1k it should go similair to this -

1 - you cant afford costs, either walk away with the sidewinder as normal or take out a "debt".
2 - If you take out the debt, your given the sidewinder and 1k as normal.
3 - you grind up the value of this debt.
4 - goto a specifically designated area or a large station.
5 - pay the debt and retrieve the ship you originally lost at the insurance price it would of been at the time of destruction.

This imo caters for all, your forced back to square one with a light at the end of the tunnel. You dont need the 200mill it cost you originally for that type 9, you onlyy need 8mill or so. Its gonna take that person a good week or so (now they're better informed and understand the game more). But its still a setback. Smaller ships are easier to get so it lets newer gamers make up for their mistake and get back into the game sooner.

If anything, wiping and returning 2/3 times should be enough to give everyone the "triple check right screen" before take off mentality and paranoia i myself atleast follow. It would also make destruction to a bug or glitch still annoying as hell but atleast a little more forgiving. "I lost my ship to a bug....but 1.3 mill isnt that far off, socks up and back into the grind i guess" rather than "i lost everything i did for the last 3 weeks and 10mill seems so far off).

 

[Distance]

Two small tweaks.

1. Allow insurance to be paid in advance on outfitting screen.

2. display insurance amount on outfitting screen.

It's a pain in the ass having to swap out to outfitting to check your insurance costs whilst you're in the middle of fitting out a ship.