Have you ever made a comment on this thread where you haven't used Open and PvP in the same breath?
Seriously, it's clear you're a trader but lay it on thick much?
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Have you ever made a comment on this thread where you haven't used Open and PvP in the same breath?
Seriously, it's clear you're a trader but lay it on thick much?
"Fdev SHOULD do X," "They SHOULD do Y." I keep reading these, and I keep having to ask if people really know what in blue blazes they're asking for. How is it proposed to separate Open and Solo and Group? It all has one backend, one "server." If you want Solo and Group to not affect Open, you're going to have to propose how it's going to happen.
Look, I'll make it easy for you: A PROPOSAL to make a fully open 'server' where there is only open play. You are allowed to transfer your save to that server but not out of it. You will need a constant Internet connection because you will, obviously, be playing Open all the time. It will have only a fraction of the stars in the galaxy, probably probably only the charted, inhabited worlds, so that its database can take up less space and the initial investment in additional hardware will be minimal. Explorers will be out of luck in this new universe but presumably you're playing in it for PvP, influencing subfactions, PKing, trading, pirating other players, whatever. There; you can push FDev to implement this as desired. It gives everyone more or less what they want. Keeping in mind that the lead designer acknowledges that some play styles are going to be mutually exclusive, this is probably the best and most cost-effective (and therefore has the highest chance of being implemented) proposal. Flog as desired.
Look, I'll make it easy for you: A PROPOSAL to make a fully open 'server' where there is only open play. You are allowed to transfer your save to that server but not out of it. You will need a constant Internet connection because you will, obviously, be playing Open all the time. It will have only a fraction of the stars in the galaxy, probably probably only the charted, inhabited worlds, so that its database can take up less space and the initial investment in additional hardware will be minimal. Explorers will be out of luck in this new universe but presumably you're playing in it for PvP, influencing subfactions, PKing, trading, pirating other players, whatever. There; you can push FDev to implement this as desired. It gives everyone more or less what they want. Keeping in mind that the lead designer acknowledges that some play styles are going to be mutually exclusive, this is probably the best and most cost-effective (and therefore has the highest chance of being implemented) proposal. Flog as desired.
Please also include in your proposal how you are going to police P2P connections otherwise people will still "hide in solo" by tweaking their network setup/throttling bandwidth or simply connecting through proxy located in another region.
Well, here are some problems with that idea, aside from the extra programming work that would be diverted from more important things like added content:
With no monthly subscriptions, Frontier will need to sell DLC to fund continuing development and the matchmaking servers. This will include walking around stations and landing on planets. It's unreasonable to expect Frontier to make two separate sets of DLC's tailored to those two different versions of the background Galaxy. With everyone sharing one Galaxy, in all our separate playing modes, we can all buy the same DLC content as they roll it out.
If there is a separate version of the game with a locked-in Open-only mode, you'll soon start to hear demands to balance ships, weapons, and entire game content solely for that play style. With one shared Galaxy and a mix of professions in the current game, it means ships, weapons, missions, and Galaxy-wide events are balanced for everyone together, and not a strictly PvP-focused portion of the player base.
And finally, somewhere off in the distance, locked into one of those "pending game content star systems" we can't enter, are Thargoid aliens. Eventually they will start showing up in human space. When they do, we'll probably need the cooperation of the entire player base to deal with it, helping out no matter what mode we're in. It would make no sense to have two separate versions of the Thargoid invasion happening at the same time on two isolated versions of the Galaxy.
We're all in this together, even when we're not entirely together in the same instances. The Thargoids won't care what mode we're in.
We're all in this together, even when we're not entirely together in the same instances. The Thargoids won't care what mode we're in.
Amen to that.
Yes, where was it ever declared that Open owns the background sim?
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Why are so many of the people opposed to Solo obsessed with fear?
I'm still not entirely sure what all the fuss is about... The present system works fine and allows for choice. Yes, we all affect the background galaxy, but realistically, one lone CMDR isn't going to break a blockade playing in solo. And Ok, maybe there will be lots of lone CMDRs playing solo, and they will have a small affect, just as truly the however many CMDRs in open play will probably only have a small affect too. The chances are that people playing in solo aren't bothered about player motivated content, so their interactions will be glancing blows rather than a concerted attack to change something being done in open, if they even know it's happening. And it's worth noting that ultimately, FD dictate whether player motivated content succeeds or fails, so it's not truly dynamic. I forget where I read that, but it was a post from Michael Brooks conceding that they (the dev) decided whether the player content was strong enough to change things in the galaxy.
Open play / PvP is about interaction, and there are lots of issues with that at the moment, from the 31 and self limit to the number of players it is possible to see in an instance, to the CMDRs who are just in it to destroy other CMDRs, as that can hardly be called meaningful interaction, (at least, not for the victim), and I would guess that the majority of players who are into Elite are not into it simply as a shoot 'em up. Perhaps wings and other networking improvements will change the dynamic, as I can imagine that trading convoys with combat craft for escort would be fun to organise and to play, but then again, this is a game, so participants will only ever be available on an ad hoc basis.
Personally, I'm all for choice, and while I don't know that FD are likely to maintain the game modes that currently exist, I'd personally be surprised if they changed them. Just my opinion.
The present system works fine and allows for choice. Yes, we all affect the background galaxy, but realistically, one lone CMDR isn't going to break a blockade playing in solo. And Ok, maybe there will be lots of lone CMDRs playing solo, and they will have a small affect, just as truly the however many CMDRs in open play will probably only have a small affect too. The chances are that people playing in solo aren't bothered about player motivated content, so their interactions will be glancing blows rather than a concerted attack to change something being done in open, if they even know it's happening. And it's worth noting that ultimately, FD dictate whether player motivated content succeeds or fails, so it's not truly dynamic. I forget where I read that, but it was a post from Michael Brooks conceding that they (the dev) decided whether the player content was strong enough to change things in the galaxy.Open play / PvP is about interaction, and there are lots of issues with that at the moment, from the 31 and self limit to the number of players it is possible to see in an instance, to the CMDRs who are just in it to destroy other CMDRs, as that can hardly be called meaningful interaction, (at least, not for the victim), and I would guess that the majority of players who are into Elite are not into it simply as a shoot 'em up. Perhaps wings and other networking improvements will change the dynamic, as I can imagine that trading convoys with combat craft for escort would be fun to organise and to play, but then again, this is a game, so participants will only ever be available on an ad hoc basis.
Personally, I'm all for choice, and while I don't know that FD are likely to maintain the game modes that currently exist, I'd personally be surprised if they changed them. Just my opinion.
The only way to do that is to do the same thing Sony and MS do with varying success, something someone mentioned earlier called a 'lag locker' or something like that? I'm not sure. It's inherent to the P2P connection system. If you want centralized servers, get ready to pony up a monthly subscription fee.
Believe me, I'm reasonably comfortable with things as they are. However, considering the infrastructure and the current set-up, I was offering that proposal up for grabs for anyone who wants to carry the flag of an open mode separate from everyone else. There are probably dozens of other issues that would need to be worked out -- lag lockers/PnP throttling being one mentioned, the distribution of content being another... but that'll be for someone else to suss out. It's not my particular choice of hill to die on. =)Well, here are some problems with that idea, aside from the extra programming work that would be diverted from more important things like added content:
With no monthly subscriptions, Frontier will need to sell DLC to fund continuing development and the matchmaking servers. This will include walking around stations and landing on planets. It's unreasonable to expect Frontier to make two separate sets of DLC's tailored to those two different versions of the background Galaxy. With everyone sharing one Galaxy, in all our separate playing modes, we can all buy the same DLC content as they roll it out.
If there is a separate version of the game with a locked-in Open-only mode, you'll soon start to hear demands to balance ships, weapons, and entire game content solely for that play style. With one shared Galaxy and a mix of professions in the current game, it means ships, weapons, missions, and Galaxy-wide events are balanced for everyone together, and not a strictly PvP-focused portion of the player base.
And finally, somewhere off in the distance, locked into one of those "pending game content star systems" we can't enter, are Thargoid aliens. Eventually they will start showing up in human space. When they do, we'll probably need the cooperation of the entire player base to deal with it, helping out no matter what mode we're in. It would make no sense to have two separate versions of the Thargoid invasion happening at the same time on two isolated versions of the Galaxy.
We're all in this together, even when we're not entirely together in the same instances. The Thargoids won't care what mode we're in.
How about the devs just leave as it is.
The only ppl who are crying about it is the pvp'ers who want easy human targets.
The only thing i can think of,but still wont please everyone is have a bubble like in beta in a certain section of the system.
Anyone that enters solo/pvp/grouping become flagged and put to pvp online,it wont help the pirates but at least there's a proper pvp section within the system that everyone can goto to battle out there ego's.
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I'd the very act of using a string to "pack" the solar system data wouldn't be very smart in most cases. Packing into a byte stream for transmission? Sure. Packing for storage. Maybe in a backup, maybe. The biggest issue is, with PG, there is just no need. With 400 billion systems, a 32-bit integer isn't even big enough to hold just the id number of a system. If you were concerned about storage/memory space, you could get by with a 39-bit integer; but those are not really conventional, so you'd have to go to 64-bit unless you want to do a lot of bit juggling. Just to store the id numbers for every system would take (64-bit number = 8 bytes) * 4*10^11 systems = 3.2*10^12 bytes = roughly 3.2 terabytes...for one copy of each system's id number.
When you only store hand crafted game resources and player generated data, There is no reason to pack any of it outside of transmission and backup.
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This. They may not even realize it consciously, but even several of those claiming to be Open traders that are asking for separation of modes are basically arguing a "prettied up" version of "because I can't shoot them if they're in solo", or at best "because I choose to put myself in the line of player fire they should be forced to as well."
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I've never attacked a player unprovoked and I think it's ridiculous to allow people playing solo to effect the open universe. I've played many persistent online games and never spent my time attacking random people. It is fun to share a game world with others though, it's about dealing with the unexpected I guess.
So yeah, you guys are completely wrong. Also, no idea why you pretend open play is nothing but pirate pvp but you're wrong about that too. Seems like you both have extremely little insight into the topic at hand.
See what happens when you assume too much?
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I'll bat this one over at you again, just to get your take on it. The impact on the background sim that a player has is totally symmetrical regardless of being in solo or open. You, in open, can have exactly the same impact on the background sim that a guy in solo can. So where is the unfairness?
So far, I've seen no empirical evidence that average credits earned per hour is any higher in solo that in open, and would wager that if we did have those numbers, the difference would be at very most negligible. So I still don't see why it's ridiculous.
First thing, I want the game to stay as it is. Allowing us to switch modes was a brilliant design decision as it completely emasculates forced PVP.
As for those wanting to change the game, I think we need to include:
1. Those players who honestly failed to research the game before buying it.
2. The social engineers trying to make the game more like EVE.
3. Those who just want to watch the world burn.
4. Trolls.
Because you can effect the open universe while not being part of it, turning the game into who can run the most cargo in ghost mode. It trivializes the simulation system entirely. It has nothing to do with credits.
It's honestly not a complicated concept at all.
SpiralRazor
Banned
Hang around the Lave sphere with any kind of trading ship for a few days...or go to Panem etc etc etc.
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Ill agree its very extremely odd that solo players can have any impact on the PU at all....strangeness brought about by Brabens decisions.
Btw, after weeks of playing i still cant seem to find any reason why it wast made offline....I would have zero issues with downloading a small patch every day, same as i have no issues with the daily 30 minutes of maintenance.
Completely wrong? Pretend? Extremely little insight? Assume too much?
If you have such a low opinion of us, why do you even talk to us oh high and mighty one. Do open our eyes with your insight, oh insightful one. And if you give us cake, will we not eat it?
um...nyum...Seriously, though. Who is pretending that Open is noting but PvP Pirates? You? How many times has someone stepped in here and said "I'm a trader, I'm in open. What's the deal." These are the same people who are still saying keep it as it is. Is it ridiculous for someone to load up cargo in open, stop off at a station, log off, go to work and then, on his break, log in to solo (as there is no uPNP) and finish the trade run. Then log back on Open when he get's home.
Please explain why you call the same universe that is affected by players in Open/Groups/Solo the "Open Universe." There is no Open universe, there is just the Elite universe.
So far, all I have read you offer are statements. As yet I have not seen you actually give any "reasoning" with the explanation that it is too much effort or something such like. It's Ridiculous? Why is it ridiculous. We cannot see through your eyes, nor read your mind. You have to explain it. Just making a statement: The sky is green, for example, is not reasoned debate or conversation, it is you putting your opinion out there and then ridiculing everyone else who dares (with explanation) to express otherwise.
So... Waiting... <taps foot>
DRM is the most likely reason.
I like how you repeat the things I get right.
The person I was responding too and many others in this thread. I think you should slow down or something when reading the posts.
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What universe would you like the solo player to have an impact on, instead? And what about players in private groups like Mobius? They're affecting your universe too.
Do you think it's likely that FD will create a separate background Galaxy simulation just for Solo players, as well as unique background Galaxies for every Private Group, just so the players in Open can have a separate universe all to themselves?
How does that work with DLC coming down the pike? Different DLC for each universe?
How does that work with Galaxy-wide events like a pending Thargoid invasion? You want your own separate alien invasion in Open mode?
It wouldn't be TOO difficult to police, I think. Elite isn't running on pure P2P, there are aspects handled by a central server. Just off the top of my head, I'd include some telemetry that watches for matchmaking directions being sent from the main server. If too many matchmaking directives end up failing on the P2P side, I set to have a flag in order to take a deeper look at what's happening with that account. If the telemetry showed evidence of someone screwing with router setups to avoid P2P connections like that, THEN I'd take action.
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