Sorry, but you are wrong. The whole missions part of ED is being reworked and is taking some time due to the complexity of it. I am thinking that it has something to do with the powerplay expansion (not totally sure though). So yes it is a place holder for something much bigger coming our way.
FD made an MMO without understanding how successful MMOs work
- Thread starter Scharmers
- Start date
Sorry, but you are wrong. The whole missions part of ED is being reworked and is taking some time due to the complexity of it. I am thinking that it has something to do with the powerplay expansion (not totally sure though). So yes it is a place holder for something much bigger coming our way.
I don't see ED as a MMO. If it would be one things would be different:
a) passive combat system
b) uninspired hud with mouse cursor and resizable boxes (basically looking like windows vista)
c) hotkey bar for rechargable superpowers at the bottom screen
d) health bar above targets
e) boss fights after some boring linear level
f) comic graphics with ridiculous special effects
Do I need to say that I hate every MMO? Since I like ED it can't be a MMO
a) passive combat system
b) uninspired hud with mouse cursor and resizable boxes (basically looking like windows vista)
c) hotkey bar for rechargable superpowers at the bottom screen
d) health bar above targets
e) boss fights after some boring linear level
f) comic graphics with ridiculous special effects
Do I need to say that I hate every MMO? Since I like ED it can't be a MMO
Ok this thread has been lurking for a while, so now I'm going have to wade in.
Elite dangerous is different to every MMO on the market, I agree.
Elite could (and will ) have more interesting content, I agree
However, the last thing I want to see is another 'mmo' by your definition, I appreciate you've grown up and only seen endless clones of WOW, and that's ok, some people like that.
But elite is different, it's not a typical mmo, there are hundreds of games with the formula you desire, me? I like different, life after all is not scripted.
I believe ED was NEVER planned as single player game; and the proof is that you need to be online even to play solo....and that the functionality of offline play, was removed.
Now, what an MMO is, can be interpreted in various ways, but the most commonly accepted are
1) n number of players, which share an instance
2) You need to be online all the time
3) The area where your avatar exist, is usually pretty large
Then we can argue that Battlefield or COD are MMO or not; this is debatable; but if you want to make an online game, either you go for the ad hoc connection approach (what you see in 99% of the games, where people play offline, and if they want to go online they go in the lobby area of the game, and groups are created), or you go for the MMO.
Traditionally an MMO is easy to represent when you talk about an RPG or action RPG based mechanics....Diablo 3 has been called MMO by some, but obviously it is not, in my opinion; but Lord of the rings online, Star TRek online, WOW and the ton of other similar games, are clearly marked as MMO.
Now, ED....obviously it was targetted to users interaction, but they messed up every single thing, because the genial minds behind the design of the game, thought that you can just get Elite, make the map 3d; create instances and put players in...all done, we have the MMO.
Sadly, reality is a different beast: due to the size of the map; there were limitations to the number of players that can fit in; we are talking of 400B systems, each one instanced, which put a burden on servers to where to locate players.
Since the beginning, I believe I saw at most 8 people in the same instance with me; and this improve in SC while you travel in a system, but mainly because there is just void around you. Create a multiplayer game is hard, make one with such scale for the maps, is even harder, and I am glad that they were at least able to put together a semi-working instance system.
But this is not what many were hoping for....they were hoping for a hub; you get off your ship; interact; shops, meet players, and then go out to explore or do whatever the game allow you (I won't even touch the topic of the activities, that's a whole different can of worms to not even look at). Instead they were given a game where there is nothing around you; where instances are basically all the same, with minimal variations, where the interaction happens because someone pull you out of SC, or just randomly shoot at you, while approaching to a station. Wings tried to put some glue, to give a purpose to be online, same for the common target missions, where players collaborate; but we are far from the real implementation.
I can't consider ED a real MMO, as WOW, but nowadays, if you want to make a game, it must be multiplayer, and the way in which ED implemented multiplayer is neither a fully fledged MMO, nor a generic offline game that allow ad-hoc multiplayer.
Is this a good or a bad? That's up to you; whatever you like, enjoy it, otherwise you can only make noise on the forum, or hope to win the lottery so you can either pay to make your own game as you want it, or buy Frontier and fire all but DB, and help him to make a real MMO as in the original intentions. Right now what we have, is a product put out of the door in a hurry, to anticipate on Star Citizen craze. Unless ED become better by the time that SC is launched....I still hope for a change, although what I saw in the past year and a half, push me to believe that this chapter is done, money has been spent, people paid it, and that's all. We will get updates, but you can't change the foundations of the game. Enjoy the game or find something else...that's the sad truth.
Now, what an MMO is, can be interpreted in various ways, but the most commonly accepted are
1) n number of players, which share an instance
2) You need to be online all the time
3) The area where your avatar exist, is usually pretty large
Then we can argue that Battlefield or COD are MMO or not; this is debatable; but if you want to make an online game, either you go for the ad hoc connection approach (what you see in 99% of the games, where people play offline, and if they want to go online they go in the lobby area of the game, and groups are created), or you go for the MMO.
Traditionally an MMO is easy to represent when you talk about an RPG or action RPG based mechanics....Diablo 3 has been called MMO by some, but obviously it is not, in my opinion; but Lord of the rings online, Star TRek online, WOW and the ton of other similar games, are clearly marked as MMO.
Now, ED....obviously it was targetted to users interaction, but they messed up every single thing, because the genial minds behind the design of the game, thought that you can just get Elite, make the map 3d; create instances and put players in...all done, we have the MMO.
Sadly, reality is a different beast: due to the size of the map; there were limitations to the number of players that can fit in; we are talking of 400B systems, each one instanced, which put a burden on servers to where to locate players.
Since the beginning, I believe I saw at most 8 people in the same instance with me; and this improve in SC while you travel in a system, but mainly because there is just void around you. Create a multiplayer game is hard, make one with such scale for the maps, is even harder, and I am glad that they were at least able to put together a semi-working instance system.
But this is not what many were hoping for....they were hoping for a hub; you get off your ship; interact; shops, meet players, and then go out to explore or do whatever the game allow you (I won't even touch the topic of the activities, that's a whole different can of worms to not even look at). Instead they were given a game where there is nothing around you; where instances are basically all the same, with minimal variations, where the interaction happens because someone pull you out of SC, or just randomly shoot at you, while approaching to a station. Wings tried to put some glue, to give a purpose to be online, same for the common target missions, where players collaborate; but we are far from the real implementation.
I can't consider ED a real MMO, as WOW, but nowadays, if you want to make a game, it must be multiplayer, and the way in which ED implemented multiplayer is neither a fully fledged MMO, nor a generic offline game that allow ad-hoc multiplayer.
Is this a good or a bad? That's up to you; whatever you like, enjoy it, otherwise you can only make noise on the forum, or hope to win the lottery so you can either pay to make your own game as you want it, or buy Frontier and fire all but DB, and help him to make a real MMO as in the original intentions. Right now what we have, is a product put out of the door in a hurry, to anticipate on Star Citizen craze. Unless ED become better by the time that SC is launched....I still hope for a change, although what I saw in the past year and a half, push me to believe that this chapter is done, money has been spent, people paid it, and that's all. We will get updates, but you can't change the foundations of the game. Enjoy the game or find something else...that's the sad truth.
The only actual decent MMO I know is "The Secret World" and most players dislike it because they need to think before acting.
MMO could be great, but most players don't want great MMO, they only want some easy way to satisfy their ego. Even on this forum, the constant whining about "hey, I choosed a non-profit oriented career and I don't understand why I have to struggle more to have credits" is a fine example.
So I'm pretty sure NOT taking example from other actual MMO is a good idea and ED developers did already a good job in doing a fun multiplayers game, even if it need a lot of polishing.
MMO could be great, but most players don't want great MMO, they only want some easy way to satisfy their ego. Even on this forum, the constant whining about "hey, I choosed a non-profit oriented career and I don't understand why I have to struggle more to have credits" is a fine example.
So I'm pretty sure NOT taking example from other actual MMO is a good idea and ED developers did already a good job in doing a fun multiplayers game, even if it need a lot of polishing.
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Wait....what? Ego? I don't get the point.
I believe that is totally legit to expect some well known mechanics, which is what every MMO uses most of the time.
Guild wars 2 is leap and bounds ahead of every other MMO, because they are not a conventional MMO, and they are dynamically adapt the world to the player, not the other way around.
There, you get something going on all the time; other people pass by and band together without a single push of a button! This is how ED was supposed to be! The frikkin trailer of the guys helping the big capital ship against the other capital ship, is exactly how the MMO part of the game was supposed to be; that trailer is almost as fake as the launch trailer for Star Citizen, but that was understandable, since it was a pitch for money (and boy did it work); but here it was a trailer of a game that would be launched few days after.
Don't confuse the "this is what we get, let's swallow and move on" approach, with what a seasoned gamer should expect. IF we have to wait for a better product, and close both eyes, I say OK, I am with you....but if you say that this game, by current standards of other multiplayer games, is fun and well implemented, then I have to strongly disagree.
I have fun with it, which is why I play with it (and because I paid for it, can't go back, I wish I could), but this is by no means a way to say "the game rocks".
It depends how you define Massive. Is it Massive as in size? In which case how is size defined? Content? Game areas? Etc
Or "Masssive Multiplayer"? Many players interacting at the same time.
It is a completely pointless depate with no consensus.
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In fact you dont even need to generate any data to do this, just store play x,y,z data and check for people within a certain range of x,y,z. its almost infinite then.
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why do they need time. I paid £40 I expect a complete game at launch , not just bare bones
MAssive as size of the area where the player can roam; this is one of the tentpoles of any MMO. Although; ED does not have a big map, but instances tied together that get loaded when you change system trough the computer; it is quite different from say WOW, where you walk from A to b trough the map, for a while, without interruptions (try Lord of the rings online; I believe you can roam for more than an hour from side to side, going trough 6 areas).
Some concepts are standard; they even made books about videogames; which is what game designer study. There is space for interpretation about the implementation of certain features, but some concepts are pretty much well established. Just looking at size map (not number of instances), ED is not a proper MMO by definition, which could be a good or bad thing, depending on what you want.
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That's not fair thou...you paid 40 for something that you knew from the beginning, that was an "early access" or how it was used to be called: beta.
Bit of a pointless semantics discussion but that's not how the term reads. It is "massively multiplayer online". I.e. the massively and multiplayer are linked together, massively being an adjective, nothing to do with gameworld size in that context.
We are in the field of personal opinions... from what I heard from people that actually works for game companies, the term is used to describe both the size of the "area", and the amount of people that actually take part in one instance.
Do you recall an MMO where there were 2 players sharing the same map, which was limited to few screens? That's a given nowadays, and even at the time when Meridian 59 and ultima online were launched, it has always been conceived as "big" size wise and number of player-wise. We can agree or disagree, but I don't believe that this point is the focus of the OP complain.
I work in IT developing business applications, does that mean I can redefine abbreviations and acronyms to suit my own personal view? It matters not what they work in, nor what they think, what the abbreviation stands for is Massively Multiplayer Online and that can only be read one way. Again, pointless discussion really but just saying.
The fact that MMOs generally have large game areas is by the by - you COULD have an MMO set in a single village or something.
You didn't do your research before buying then, the fact that the game would still be bare bones at release never was a secret.
Hello Scharmers,
It seems you initially wanted to discuss missions. Your thread title is attracting an age old argument, that of whether ED is an MMO or not.
Would you like me to reword the title to lessen this?
It seems you initially wanted to discuss missions. Your thread title is attracting an age old argument, that of whether ED is an MMO or not.
Would you like me to reword the title to lessen this?
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I love the fact that 12 vs 12 player World of Tanks calls itself an MMO, while 32 vs 32 player Battlefield does not. Both have weapon progression et.c.
MMO has lost it's meaning after it got molested by WoT.
Nope, not a personal opinion at all, clearly defined;
As for the mission system, it could do with some work. But all MMOs suffer from the same problem;
1, Go kill x
2, Go find x
3, Bring back x
4, Boss fight
That is it... 4 things to do, over and over - but then, how can we make it better apart from dressing it up better ?
Isn't it 15 vs 15?
I agree that MMO as a term has lost its meaning. Nowadays, people tend to think that MMO = MMORPG (UO, EQ, WoW or EVE-style), which cannot be further from the truth.
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We can't. Not until AI gets better that it can dream up quests on its own. This is why Frontier are trying to put a bit of human touch on things like the Lugh conflict. Learning from this will allow them to fine tune a more automated system.
I was being told to go kill this and bring this back when I played pen & paper D&D. It annoys me that younger players think this mechnic belongs to MMO's. Missions and Quests have been the backbone of most computer games since the 80's. Elite and Frontier both had the same missions.
But some people honestly have the mentality that Blizzard invented the quest system and any other game that dare use it is either copying WOW or is wrongly pigeon holed to be an MMORPG.
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Actually you can come up with better "missions", especially in a sandbox game with other players, and ED kind of has it already with signal sources.
They are the ED equivalent of Eve's DED complexes or wormhole sites. Things you just find in space, and decide "I'm going to kill this", or "I'm going to take a look".
In Eve they are usually made interesting by other players trying to kill you, in ED AFAIK whilst outside of supercruise there is no way for any other player to find your instance. Plus it's usually just cans in space or a random convoy, but hey, it's the thought that counts.
In the beginning, God created the heavens and World of Warcraft......
... and on the seventh day, his team wiped in a raid, so he kick there backsides out of heaven to earth......