FD made an MMO without understanding how successful MMOs work

[Schattenbogen]

I love this discussion about what is or what is not a MMO.
I'm a roleplayer and each time I asked what's about the "RPG" in "MMORPG" the answer was "it it not what it mean and it's ok so".

 

[CMDR i Tetsuo]

I totally disagree and feel "knowing how successful MMOs work" is as much a bust as it is a boon, case in point the Elder Scrolls MMO...
Bethesda copied every MMO trick in the book and it failed the franchise completely, so much so they've now ditched subs to go Free-to-play in a last ditch effort to revive a dying customer base. Why? Because people didn't want an Elder Scrolls skin for WoW et al, they wanted what the Elder Scrolls did best but with an interconnected player-base. The best thing FD can do is blaze their own trail instead of trying to ape other franchises.
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The industry seems to get stuck in this idea that MMO means WoW and if you're not WoW you're not an MMO, but that's and the players are just as much to blame as anyone else. I can see comments in this thread claiming what is and isn't an MMO because they're either too narrow with the term or don't really understand how genres change and develop. Doom and Battlefield are both FPS games but nothing alike in gameplay or structure but there's this weird defensivenesss over the MMO term that seems to say, if you don't do A, B and C you're not allowd to use the term at all.
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MMO - Massively (Elite is huge) Multiplayer (Elite is connected) Online (yup, it's definitely online...)

 

[Cosmo]

For example, what is the biggest, most awful cliché in MMO mission design, the one cliché that every new (not-WoW) MMO desperately tries to avoid or at least disguise? You guessed it -- the "go forth and collect ten whatevers" quest. And this awful cliché is the CORE of ED's missions. Go out and look for randomly spawning whatchamacallits. Or just about as egregious: instead of spinning the RNG to find a McGuffin, spin the RNG to kill an Anaconda. Why? Why not?

There are no carefully constructed encounters/instances for powerful players, or dynamically-scaling encounters to match the number of active players -- sail a newbie Sidewinder or a fully-loaded Vulture into a High-Intensity Zone, nothing changes; just a capital ship with endlessly-spawning Eagles and Vipers.

I agree that ED needs carefully constructed encounters with some narrative. The developers said the missions will be improved with branches and for wings.

 

[Ydiss]

I totally disagree and feel "knowing how successful MMOs work" is as much a bust as it is a boon, case in point the Elder Scrolls MMO...
Bethesda copied every MMO trick in the book and it failed the franchise completely, so much so they've now ditched subs to go Free-to-play in a last ditch effort to revive a dying customer base. Why? Because people didn't want an Elder Scrolls skin for WoW et al, they wanted what the Elder Scrolls did best but with an interconnected player-base. The best thing FD can do is blaze their own trail instead of trying to ape other franchises.
-
The industry seems to get stuck in this idea that MMO means WoW and if you're not WoW you're not an MMO, but that's and the players are just as much to blame as anyone else. I can see comments in this thread claiming what is and isn't an MMO because they're either too narrow with the term or don't really understand how genres change and develop. Doom and Battlefield are both FPS games but nothing alike in gameplay or structure but there's this weird defensivenesss over the MMO term that seems to say, if you don't do A, B and C you're not allowd to use the term at all.
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MMO - Massively (Elite is huge) Multiplayer (Elite is connected) Online (yup, it's definitely online...)

This is a very good point. If ED had been designed as an MMO from the ground up, it wouldn't be Elite: Online. And EDO is a perfect example of how to do it wrong. FD have done an excellent job of, essentially, giving us Elite/Frontier: Online. It's irrelevant if it's an MMO or not. You can play it with friends. You exist in a galaxy with every other player in Open. But you don't have to play in Open.

From when I first read the DDA, it was obvious what intent the developers had. And they're slowly, but surely, achieving that intent.

 

[Remo]

OH dear lord yet another "this is not an MMO epic failure FD"

SSDD

 

[Ideas Man]

Haha, yea right. Mmo = go here kill collect that go there kill those, rinse and repeat for a million hours. Complete bore fest. Mmo games to me are the biggest rip off in gaming. Total waste of time and money.

I don't even, lol ha ha...

 

[xyphic]

why do they need time. I paid £40 I expect a complete game at launch , not just bare bones

You paid £40 and got a game that was polished to release standard. It was complete in that sense (in that Frontier could have just left it, and while it wouldn't have been a long-term success, it was still a game). What you're actually getting for your £40 is continual development where Frontier will be adding new features for free throughout the life of the product. I'd say that's a pretty good thing.

 

[GHDW]

E|D is not an MMO, it's a poorly optimized, decentralized game engine featuring always-online digital rights management and 32 person instance limit. There is no place where all of us can congregate other than in this forum, and if that's what makes it "massive" please don't mind as I politely chuckle.

 

[Ydiss]

E|D is not an MMO, it's a poorly optimized, decentralized game engine featuring always-online digital rights management and 32 person instance limit. There is no place where all of us can congregate other than in this forum, and if that's what makes it "massive" please don't mind as I politely chuckle.

Try meeting every single player in any MMO in one place. Let me know when you find an MMO capable.

 

[unicron]

P2P architecture:

Next time a player interdicts me, I'll just cut the connection in my firewall. I have these screens anyway, alt-tabbing is not even required in borderless mode and the worst that can happen is that I disconnect myself from matchmaking.

All sillyness aside, I'm guessing they point to the persistent galaxy as the "Massive" aspect in which you can multiplayer. I have no problems with this. It's just silly to use P2P though, it just gives exploiters more power, allows you to "hardcore-gameplay-Ohh-Sh-Alt-F4". It's not as silly bad as in say Call of Duty games though... Elites multiplayer features are an absolute all star in that light! (especially also considering budget)

Poorly optimized? Nah, this game runs smooth! Doesn't absolutely burn down my graphics card either while still looking good! Would be nice if they could give my drives a rest and use my RAM a bit more, 32bit is a bit of a let down.

 

[Dakron Nova]

MAssive as size of the area where the player can roam; this is one of the tentpoles of any MMO. Although; ED does not have a big map, but instances tied together that get loaded when you change system trough the computer; it is quite different from say WOW, where you walk from A to b trough the map, for a while, without interruptions (try Lord of the rings online; I believe you can roam for more than an hour from side to side, going trough 6 areas).

Ok, accepting your definition, many wouldnt but personally I sit on the fence.

Define Massive in the context you use it.

Its only bytes of data being interpreted in a pre-defined manner? Anyone can generate 100Terrabytes of data with no content and let a limited number of people connect to it and wander around in your empty instances is that massive (BTW not saying that was elite is.)


-----Edit

In fact you dont even need to store any data just players x,y,z data and check for players within a certain distance of x,y,z I would say that doesnt make it massive.

 

[Ideas Man]

ED is an MMO - the creator said so, why do you all do this?
Bicker and waffle on for hundreds of pages about meanings of words? Why do you all focus on the smallest of things so obsessively? Why do you all stifle discussion with word play and semantics?

 

[Robert Maynard]

ED is an MMO - the creator said so, why do you all do this?
Bicker and waffle on for hundreds of pages about meanings of words? Why do you all focus on the smallest of things so obsessively? Why do you all stifle discussion with word play and semantics?

.... because each user has their own idea of what *must* be included in an MMO (or is that MMORPG?). It's probably as simple as working out how many players constitute "massively" - and whether or not there is the possibility of meeting all those players in a particular game mode.

 

[shadragon]

Also ED is not an MMO.

Technopedia (among others) defines an MMO as:

A massively multiplayer online game (MMOG) refers to videogames that allow a large number of players to participate simultaneously over an internet connection. These games usually take place in a shared world that the gamer can access after purchasing or installing the game software. The explosive growth in MMOGs has prompted many game designers to build online multiplayer modes into many traditionally single-player games.

So by definition it IS an MMO.

All credit to FD for giving their fans what they wanted. The problem is that that fan base don't really play multiplayer games or hate them all together.

The problem is they are giving the players what they want. Carte Blanche without any long term thought to game play, world building, etc. Tweaks to gameplay are supposed to be made incrementally over time to gauge impact and let the FDevs assess problems of imbalance and correct if needed. 1.2 threw a huge spanner into the works with multiple major changes to combat, ship pricing, bounty payouts, repair and fuel cost reductions. One of those changes could be considered major. This short sighted strategy to keep players "happy" is going to have a detrimental effect across the board.

People like to make fun of Mobius, but that private group (among others and solo) is a barometer of how well the FDevs are doing. If Open was fair and balanced, Mobius would have tumbleweeds blowing through it. On Feb 28 there were 5015 Mobius members. Since then 850+ players left Open and joined Mobius. If that does not show there are issues what will it take to convince you?

 

[Ideas Man]

.... because each user has their own idea of what *must* be included in an MMO (or is that MMORPG?). It's probably as simple as working out how many players constitute "massively" - and whether or not there is the possibility of meeting all those players in a particular game mode.

It just seems like a recurring theme here, someone makes a good point and twenty turbo nerds descend to pick up on a single word in the post and dissect it for dozens of pages, the original post's point is lost and everyone who is normal gets bored.

 

[OrLoK]

Hello there

I love the fact that I'm playing Elite with other people, but TBH I rarely interact with other players as most folk dont have my *ethos* about game play. They just want to "rank up" ASAP and Im more about tootling around at a slow pace experiencing as much as possible.

So, i'm *glad* its not an MMO where I *have* to group up to achieve X or Y but the game does have events for those who want to as well.

Although it may not be the accepted mainstream definition of what an MMO "should be", to me, it's pretty spot on.

Rgds

LoK

 

[Ideas Man]

Hello there

I love the fact that I'm playing Elite with other people, but TBH I rarely interact with other players as most folk dont have my *ethos* about game play. They just want to "rank up" ASAP and Im more about tootling around at a slow pace experiencing as much as possible.

So, i'm *glad* its not an MMO where I *have* to group up to achieve X or Y but the game does have events for those who want to as well.

Although it may not be the accepted mainstream definition of what an MMO "should be", to me, it's pretty spot on.

Rgds

LoK

The 'ethos' of the game is to play YOUR WAY and if that involves ranking up quickly then that's a good and valid way to play the game.

 

[Jockey79]

.... in ED AFAIK whilst outside of supercruise there is no way for any other player to find your instance. .....

Wing Beacon lets Wing members find you regardless of what instance you are in.

 

[SlickReed]

Regardless of what we've ended up with, ED had to have been initially planned as a single-player game. FD's realization that ED could only be profitably pulled off as an MMO had to have come later. My evidence? ED stinks as an MMO. Every design facet in the game supporting "MMO-style" play is awful -- and never mind that a P2P connection is about the worst architecture possible for an MMO.

Good thing ED is not a MMO

 

[Kerrec Snowmane]

People like to make fun of Mobius, but that private group (among others and solo) is a barometer of how well the FDevs are doing. If Open was fair and balanced, Mobius would have tumbleweeds blowing through it. On Feb 28 there were 5015 Mobius members. Since then 850+ players left Open and joined Mobius. If that does not show there are issues what will it take to convince you?

That is flawed logic. You have no idea where those 850 people are coming from, ie: brand new accounts or old accounts that are frustrated with Open. You also have no idea if those 5000+ members only play in Group, or swap back and forth between the game modes.
.
The only reasonable conclusion you can make as a result of the Mobius group, is some players like to play a certain way. In no way can you relate a group's rise or decline with the success or failure of game features.