A fair enough point...
No money for insurance -> basically delete your game
- Thread starter BlackSparki
- Start date
Let me start with a quote.
"You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair, and all the terrible things that happen to come because we actually deserve them? So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe." - J. Michael Straczynski
This game, like the real universe, is unforgiving. It puts the danger in Elite Dangerous. I agree, it sucks that this happened to you. But, if this was your first death, then lesson learned and move on. When 1.2 hit, I deleted my save and started fresh. Just cuz I sick in the head like that...
There is about a gazillion "casual games" on the market. There are even casual devices (smart phones) on the market. Everything is dumbed down for people that have the attention span of a squirrel on crack and cannot be bothered to think, read a manual or do anything at all that is hard. Even the web gets dumbed down, shiny new websites pop up that have the graphics look of Windows 3.1 and half the functionality of the sites they replace.
Fair enough, everybody is using a computing device now and the average intelligence of the human race is stunningly low, with the number of individuals willing to use what brains they have even lower.
However, a few of us are still different. We want hard games where taking responsibility is not optional, were strategic thinking is required. And where the failure of applying both has really nasty consequences. I pretty much heard the same complaints for another great game of 2014 that also topped the Steam charts for weeks: Divinity Original Sin, a classic open world RPG that does not take your hand, requires brains and strategy.
Elite: Dangerous is just such a game that is primarily geared at "hardcore" player and I really would like to keep it that way. Casual players are welcome, but they are not and should not become the target group.
Agreed, but I'd argue it's more about the perception of the developers of said games than the gamers themselves. It so hard not to have that image in your head when you have game mechanics like this:
Even COD fans thought that was insulting.
This game is unlike the real universe a game and extremely forgiving. Especially the PvP aspect is very forgiving. There are almost no consequences in PvP, there are almost no consequences in "unlawful" PvE behavior.
The whole galaxy is casual friendly as it tries to make the player feel powerful. A group of a few players are able to overthrow the government of a solar system with billions of inhabitants? Really?
The only thing that might resemble something unforgiving is the insurance system, a slight chance that a player can lose a ship and this is only something that affects newish players. Play the game long enough and this is no problem at all.
That's the big downside of the game, a somewhat harsh consequence in a world without consequences. It takes some player by surprise. And to be honest, I don't know why the whole "there is a chance to lose your ship" thing is in this game. Play long enough - earn enough cr. - and the whole insurance, death penalty thing is irrelevant. It doesn't prevent players form meaningless PvP, it doesn't prevent players form doing stupid things in PvE, it does nothing except resulting in long threads in the forum and some players feeling superior to others.
Elite Dangerous tries to be to many things at once. The result is that it isn't a real space sim, it's not a real PvP game, it's not a real sandbox game, it's not a casual game - but it's probably more a casual game than anything else.
If Elite Dangerous would be unforgiving then ship destruction would result in the loss of the ship and maybe even death. It would make PvP something really, really dangerous and something almost everybody would try to prevent. But it would make a lot of players very unhappy. Add a real working security force, real and harsh punishment for "unlawful" behavior and almost nobody would play the game. And I have the feeling that those who write about "dangerous galaxy" and "hardcore" gamer would be the first to stop playing.
And yes. Flying without insurance money is the only stupid thing a player can make in Elite Dangerous. The only thing that has a consequence in a galaxy without consequences.
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I haven't followed the thread of your discussion so forgive me if I lost the point you're making.
There's a subtle difference between changing a game to improve the player experience and compromising your design goals to stop unhappy players "leaving".
I've seen developers do the latter without ample consideration of the former. And not enough developers willing to let players go to stand steadfastly in their drive to maintain their vision. I've stopped playing those games. And I stopped buying the sequels.
ED has not emerged as a game that is openly attempting to appeal to the mainstream games market place. Its competitor clearly has.
I can think of one other competitor that has stubbornly opted to not appeal to the casual gamer and started off with a player base much smaller than ed's. It's doing quite well for itself now (and always has).
That game isn't the game for me. ED is. I'm undecided on Star Citizen. It's not grabbing me yet.
I actually spent an hour today reading about ED, NMS, SC and EVE. Just reading the wiki for each reveals just how different each of the games are to each other.
Different enough that all of them can quite happily co-exist.
It's quite a unique situation for a computer game genre. Compare it to the FPS genre (particularly the modern warfare themed games) and you'll see nothing of the sort. New sequels on an annual basis from several developers. None offering anything particularly new. None offering an experience dramatically different to the competition.
Fun, for fans of the genre (my favourite genre). But stale. And it's been that way since call of duty forgot its WWII theme.
There is no need for FD to scramble to make ED significantly pander to the players who feel the rebuy isn't casual enough.
Improvements to the game are important. But a lot of players demand dramatic changes. Such as removing the death penalty altogether.
I'd be really cheesed off if stuff like that happened. Much like some fans of the game would be annoyed if FD released pvp death match battlegrounds like the SC approach.
I've said this before. It's better that not every space game we can play is like every space game we can play. The alternative is a cash n grab nightmare that no one really benefits from.
I want ed to be harsh and difficult, I want it to have meaningful risks (and rewards). I want it to be a singular galaxy that evolves over time. And I'm quite happy for it to be that way and see some players leave for other games.
It's unique. It's dystopian. It's dirty. It's going to keep getting better. It's the game I want to play.
I'm not alone.
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This has probably been asked somewhere in the 16 pages of this thread but life is short and I cba to read back to find out.
How on earth does someone play the game for long enough to gain Imperial Baron rank and raise enough money to buy a Clipper without understanding the concept of the rebuy which is one of the most basic principles of the game?
How on earth does someone play the game for long enough to gain Imperial Baron rank and raise enough money to buy a Clipper without understanding the concept of the rebuy which is one of the most basic principles of the game?
They don't, they're just very very impatient, upgrade without covering insurance costs because they don't think they'll make a mistake, and when the inevitable happens (they blow up) it becomes bad game design.
Here is me, pontificating about this, but if I blew up my 270 mil top specced Anaconda without insurance I'd be right here on this forum screaming at ya'all with an open letter to David Braben that insurance is bad (at least when my ships get destroyed) and if it isn't changed immediately everyone will leave and Frontier will be very sorry and regret it.
Human nature.
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....ok yes, I have at least the "skill" of a normally functioning 8 year old. I can press two buttons when the blue things go away around my ship and the nice lady tells me my shields are gone. If people can't do even that then they really shouldn't be playing this game. Hell they shouldn't even be leaving their house with out a chaperone.
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You are now one of the 'Alienated'. The pain you are feeling has been tailored to give the game meaning to others. Your sacrifice... as in you are being sacrificed to fuel the egos of the virtual elite. Know that your perceived insignificance is highlighted by the apathy of those who are willfully ignorant to your plight. The vacuous and specious reasoning behind the game design allowing your progress to be wiped is an experience you can bring to your grave. Your time has been literally wasted, and you are never getting it back. Thanks for posting so the the "Elite" can feel smug about themselves. You have been shafted by Elite: Dangerous.
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Fixed that for you
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Fixed that for you
Ah, okay, I see where you aren't judging now. Thanks for clearing that up.
All sorts of ships, and sorts of deaths. After a death-free run of about a month, yesterday on an mining trip I found out that mining is MUCH more dangerous than exploration, as NPC pirates will try to take you down for your cargo. My unshielded T6, starting at 47% Hull, was attacked by a Competent Viper yesterday. Even submitting and boosting I was taken out during the runup to the FSD countdown. "Incoming Missile" followed by a lot of swearing.
I take it your crash into an asteroid counts as one of your 5% then?
Just to clarify the "95%" was a minor exaggeration based some assumptions. Closer to 90% in my experience.
1. you have played at least a few weeks.
2. You are at least baseline cautious (so no mining w/out a shield, attacking a conda with a sidewinder, gunning it out of stations at 380km/ph to name a few)
Kinda thought that was a given. People who do a lot of dangerous/stupid tend to get hurt more. I'll be sure to explain that next time since it appears I have to.
And yeah that asteroid death defiantly counted toward my non bug related death.
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Sarcasm aside I am absolutely 100% judging people who can't do that. And harshly at that.
So you've had at least 18 deaths caused by bugs/lag? Wow, I haven't had that many deaths in total. (Despite having the skill of a 7 year old.)
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I know, that's what I said in the first place, when you dismissed it.
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The problem with this hypothesis is that these "elite" smug people you are talking about actually don't want to hear from people who lost their ship through their own shortsightedness. Really. Their pain doesn't float our boat, we wish they would shut up, stop making these threads, and play the game -- or leave.
What we, or at least I, am tired of seeing is neverending insurance threads that want to change the fundamentals of the game we love to play, because people couldn't be bothered to read the manual, and understand what the UI is telling them.
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Wait ranks in 1.3 will reduce insurance cost? I thought it just gave a higher loan amount.
With the ability for us to score them 1-10 Darwin award style.
I thought you meant vs. normal people. My bad. Also I said 90% was closer and that 95% was a loose guess. But yeah I have died a lot. a quicktime update killed me twice. One time I died just to see how long it would take from a player in a WZ. I didn't count that toward anything.