Murder, not griefing. You're in a game that allows this.
Try reporting someone for it, nothing will happen.
Aaaaand this is why I don't play Open Play - and possibly ED
- Thread starter louthelou
- Start date
Try reporting someone for it, nothing will happen.
Yes some wear the bounty as a badge. But I have played open since December and had no issues, I got killed once by a player that's it! Most players play nice.
Outlaw Jenner is absolutely not a griefer. He is a PvPer looking for fights in Open.
If you play in Open and you get killed, sure you can feel sad and feel "grief" for your lost credits, but that doesn't make your aggressor a greifer. If a player feels that anyone attacking them in Open is a griefer then they really should only play in Group or Solo. It's that simple.
FD have made it clear that this type of behaviour is not only acceptable, but an expected part of the game. We'd have heard something by now if it wasn't, or more likely they would have changed how the game works (e.g the option to make yourself invulnerable). That said, the crime update removing the ability to pay off bounties is a good move. But FD are absolutely not trying to remove PvP from Open.
If you play in Open and you get killed, sure you can feel sad and feel "grief" for your lost credits, but that doesn't make your aggressor a greifer. If a player feels that anyone attacking them in Open is a griefer then they really should only play in Group or Solo. It's that simple.
FD have made it clear that this type of behaviour is not only acceptable, but an expected part of the game. We'd have heard something by now if it wasn't, or more likely they would have changed how the game works (e.g the option to make yourself invulnerable). That said, the crime update removing the ability to pay off bounties is a good move. But FD are absolutely not trying to remove PvP from Open.
I had a similar experience to the OP recently, but have quite a different outlook on it. I got interdicted by a CMDR in a Anaconda in Altair who was clearly wanting to blow people up for kicks. I was no challenge. I was running a T6 full of rares. Now, I had been actively looking for an encounter with a human player. I found one and got blown up.
So what did I do?
Got another T6 with my insurance (insurance takes the pain away people), went back to the same system, hung around in SC, saw this guy was still there and waited for the interdict.
Why the hell would I do that?
To see if I could get away from him this time of course! I did, and he chased me for 3 systems before I lost him. Brilliant fun.
It is really hard to see your point, because you attacked a competent anaconda, alone from that should tell you this is someone who traded and is used to a trade conda at best, especially given that you have combat experience, you knew this. Then there's your reddit post with video, specifically titled murdered. And you don't see yourself as a griefer? In general those that 'laugh' over kills like that or seek gratification from it, which it seems you do, are those I quality as griefers.To ME a giefer is someone that stalks starter areas and picks on new players with inferior equipment for kicks. All day, every day, has no gameplay outside of this. I do not do that, the system this happened in is far from the starter area, the player I engaged was in a vastly more expensive and powerful ship, and had a wingman with a potentially lethal loadout. This couldn't be further from griefing. Non-Consensual PvP? Sure, right up until the point he deployed hardpoints. The moment he did that all arguments went out the window. He had ample time to escape especially given I screwed up and was not in supercruise for a full unsafe FSD cooldown after the second interdiction. Instead i return to supercruise to see him still vectoring in on the RES site. Ship saftey was the least of his concern at this point to me.
Sorry for the double post
And of course he is going to deploy hardpoints, you interdicted him, that is an aggressive action of course he is going to try defending himself. And of course he is going to be upset you attacked a person who was trying to help his brother, for no other reason then "hey there's an anaconda"
I don't know what you were expecting, it is a very normal reaction to such things happening.
The whole "Don't play in open" mentality makes no sense, because at best it pushes people away from open, and I do not believe open is meant to be a paradise for those that grief people.
You could easily have banged them up a bit and then left, your advantage was pretty clear early on in the video, so you could have left with no problem and it would still have been a win.
Anaconda makes a great trading ship better then T9 by most accounts, so why wouldn't someone be flying that for trading?A noob in a anaconda
I have always played in open play and I have rarely ever encounter another human pilot and when I do it usually in systems which can be easily avoided like lave, which let face it is the toughest neighborhood in Elite.
That said maybe if there was a pvp activity measuring or such stat for systems, hotspots, allowing people to get an idea of how dangerous it is to go to a specific location, then I could agree, but how would people know as it is now?
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Well played, I look forward to player encounters for the same reason, to challenge myself, I only hope that I am treated fairly and not murderd out of hand. I always let my victims go now before they die and most players do same for me. You don't need to kill someone to score a victory.
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Someone mentioned about Griefers earlier and CMDR Jenner in particular, well, I would go along with him not being a Griefer, however, he and his buddies are bullies in all fairness. The other week during the Trading CG 4 of them in a Wing performed a Stop and Sing action. Yes, really, they Interdicted loads of us hauling cargo and offered us the choice of singing a song in public live on Twitch or be annihalated. Yes its a bit of fun and i did my stint, some tried to run and got shot down, maybe I should have rather than being cowardly and giving in, but I was in a Type 7 which can't even run so it seemed pointless. Jenner and his mates, all well known PVPers, role played nicely but the role they were playing was a bunch of schoolyard bullies and it occurred to me that should they carry on like this then Elite will be no fun as even if I was in my Vulture I would have stood no chance against a Wing of 4 players and I would rapidly get fed up of being stopped and harrassed.
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If we could hire NPC wings to fly with us then I could accept this, but I don't play with other players so never Wing up....
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It is quite on-topic: if you earn all your credits with exploration or trading it is a great idea to practice combat in a cheaper vessel. Had the OP done that we would not have this discussion. By flying extremely expensive ships while being fairly inexperienced you'll set yourself up for all kinds of trouble.
I didn't say it was illegal. I said it was griefing. Just because the gameplay allows it doesn't make it anything else.
Griefing = failing Wheton's Law.
If you go on my son's minecraft server, there's nothing at all to stop you walking up to someone and killing them. It's allowed in the game but it's griefing. In fact it's arguably *less* like griefing than a player killer in elite as you can actually nick their stuff in minecraft.
The gameplay allows me to camp outside the stations in Eravate and kill n00bs in an anaconda. It's still griefing.
If there's an in-game reward for me to attack you, and I think I have a chance of winning, I'll attack you. But I wont' do it just to see you die. That's because I'm not a d**k. If someone attacks someone else just for the lulz, well sorry, but they're being one.
Against people *not* looking for fights. This is d**kish behaviour.
Sorry, where have they made this clear? This *isn't* piracy or bounty hunting or blockading or tracking. All roles that give the target an option to not be killed (give up the loot, don't earn the bounty, don't run a blockade, don't do something that requires a score to be settled).
A straight player killer is most certainly a griefer, even if it's not a reportable offence.
No-one want to remove PvP in open. If I'm pirating a system and have a bounty on me, I expect interdiction. If you're running cargo in a CG for the Feds, expect me to interdict you. But *don't* expect me to interdict and kill you just so I can video it and laugh. Not all PvP is griefing so don't tar people who don't like griefers as anti-PvPers.
Sorry to interrupt this amazing discussion, but I have a question based on some of whats been said.
Is there somewhere (on this forum or elsewhere) a list of all the so called 'bad neighborhoods' or common pvp systems? Or just a list of the most commonly visited or popular systems? If not, perhaps someone who knows these sorts of things could create a sticky in the newcomers forum to share such a list with folks.
I play, a lot, but I rarely see other players in the areas I usually hang out. It would be nice to know where to go when I want a rush (and where to avoid when I don't).
Also, is there, somewhere, an anarchy system more or less 'officially' designated for fair-ish Pvp dueling? And, if not, would any of you Pvp types be interested in helping to set something like that up?
Okay, sorry for the interruption, now back to your regularly scheduled argument.
Is there somewhere (on this forum or elsewhere) a list of all the so called 'bad neighborhoods' or common pvp systems? Or just a list of the most commonly visited or popular systems? If not, perhaps someone who knows these sorts of things could create a sticky in the newcomers forum to share such a list with folks.
I play, a lot, but I rarely see other players in the areas I usually hang out. It would be nice to know where to go when I want a rush (and where to avoid when I don't).
Also, is there, somewhere, an anarchy system more or less 'officially' designated for fair-ish Pvp dueling? And, if not, would any of you Pvp types be interested in helping to set something like that up?
Okay, sorry for the interruption, now back to your regularly scheduled argument.
I remember you from "Elite's Got Talent". While I do agree our actions were a bit bullying, it was overall in the spirit of fun, giving people an alternative to the usual cargo or life, or just killing for flat out no reason. It is also why we have a list of procedures for when we do that activity, and we do not do that activity daily, but rather one night a week. We don't want people to be afraid of it or put off by it. Yes there are harsh penalties for non compliance, and yes if people do not have a mic they are given a coinflip option, but even then it is a fifty fifty chance and on night one EVERYONE got to live (lady luck was working overtime). In the end a lot of people had fun, we did, most of our contestants did and some were even super into it, and the stream was having a blast. We wouldn't dare do that full-time as it would wear out the novelty of it for all involved parties, and it would be pushing it too far.
You are correct, I could have indeed just let him go after crippling the Anaconda. I made a decision to finish off an enemy combatant, regardless of who started the fight. It's the same thing as him deciding to not evade, or him to open fire in the first place, or to think he had the upper hand and go for the kill once the shields on the Orca were down. Same as the Cobra that decided to continue attempting to engage even after the Anaconda was reduced to scrap. Do you think either of them would have not gone for the kill if it was in their favor? Combat rating has nothing to do with skill level. Z4Mafia is rated Expert and is hands down one of the best pilots I have gone up against. I've seen Elite Rated FDL get slaughtered by lesser ships... I could sit here and break down the semantics of how little combat rating means in the long run but I'll just leave it at this: In its present itteration Combat rating is nothing more than an indicator of how much time a player has spent killing bots, nothing more, nothing less.
There is no "pvp flag" to indicate if a player wishes to engage in combat or not. He was in open, in a combat fit ship with an interdictor, to me that is fair game.
Clearly you do not understand the limitations of an Orca. It cannot masslock anything larger than a Cobra, anything smaller than a Cobra can evade it. There is a limit on what I interdict, I do not go after Sidewinders as they cannot evade it and there is absolutely no sport in that.
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Basically the starter systems, trade CGs and rare-selling systems. Lots of 'weak' targets there, so the average murderer hangs out there. And for what it is worth, someone randomly murdering others is not a griefer and it is a perfectly legit, though lame, playstyle. And when the 'victim' is in a conda+friend and the perp is a orca, well, it seems the issue is more with sheer incompetence and hubris (continuing to SC to the RES, really?) than 'griefing'.
Firstly I'd edit out the masked swearing before you get an infraction.
Secondly, are you expecting everyone to send a direct message to each other before engaging in combat? Perhaps we should rename the game Elite: Duel.
It was made clear many months ago in a post by Sandro. But it should also be obvious as after 6 months FD have done nothing about players randomly killing each other.
If you agree player killing is not a reportable offence, then what is your point? It seems to me that you want to stick a silly meaningless label on people because you don't agree with their play style. It would be like me saying that anyone that starts threads like this is a "carebear". It would mean nothing and make me look silly.
PvP combat is part of the game. Non-consensual PvP is part of Open. Everyone knows this so why do people start throwing toys out the pram when the obvious happens?
If you want consensual PvP, and claim that everything else is griefing (clearly excluding piracy), then start a group for consensual PvP where everyone can challenge each other to gentlemans duels. You'll be far happier in the long run than waiting for people to magically stop "griefing" or for FD to stop non-consensual PvP.
By flying around, monitoring your radar, when you arrive in a system it usually fairly obvious whether it empty of players or full of players. If you going to fly expensive ships learn how to fly them and how to get them out of trouble. I have no sympathy for people who rush to get anaconda and then cry when someone blow them out of the sky because they didn't know how to fly it and don't know how dangerous some parts of space is.
I quite like you. You are a very rational individual! You seem like the kind of person I would enjoy flying with.
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Nahh, I'm a carebear
That can be cured! Seriously I have friends from all walks of life, traders, explorers, PvPers. It's about the person, not the activity choice lol.
You don't get killed in an Anaconda unless you are choosing to stay and fight. Yeah, the Orca initiated PvP - but it wasn't unconsented (unless you are not very bright, you understand that signing in to Open means you accept that PvP can happen by nature of the instance). The OP was attacked by an Orca and clearly fought back, then things went south and he didn't jump away, he just stayed for a losing battle after he went for the kill and it didn't go as planned.
If you are joining Open with a wing and going to go looking for a fight (You went to go hunt NPCs so you were in some way prepared for combat, and you fought back against the player rather than leaving which indicates you being okay with the PvP) then don't raise a ruckus about it when you die.
The sad thing is that I expect if he had won and he and his friend killed the Orca, this would be one of those "Love this game it is so exhilarating woooo" posts.
If you are joining Open with a wing and going to go looking for a fight (You went to go hunt NPCs so you were in some way prepared for combat, and you fought back against the player rather than leaving which indicates you being okay with the PvP) then don't raise a ruckus about it when you die.
The sad thing is that I expect if he had won and he and his friend killed the Orca, this would be one of those "Love this game it is so exhilarating woooo" posts.
With respect to all posters here, the problem with griefing, ramming, and other behaviour such as "Elite's got Talent" is that they are being played out in Open play which is a global type server open to all and with few if any server rules. This means you subject people to behaviour some may find objectionable. So much different to games such as BF4 where we can select a server to play on. E.g. to play games like your "Elite's got Talent" you would normally do that on a server with permission from an admin. The difference here is you are just making your own play on a global server with no admins present and expecting people to tolerate it. Some may, some may not. Without any effective admin to maintain gaming etiquette players will just do what they want will little regard to others.
I watched the video and he seemed happy to fight until it went wrong for him. I used to not like the idea of been attacked for no reason but now I think it adds to the challenge/tension during the game. NPC’s just don’t supply any danger after you’re out of the sidewinder. If a shieldless Eagle interdicts my cargoless Vulture one more time I don’t know what I’ll do.
Player attacks are part of open and can be fun.
The problem is a crime prevention/punishment is way too soft when this happens. All systems feel the same in terms of security. There may be a bounty but it’s too easy to fly with one and too easy to pay off. (changes are incoming for that).
It should be very dangerous for anyone carrying out unprovoked attacks in high security systems, and much more dangerous for people looking to avoid PvP in low security systems, this would allow people to play in open with a bit more safety unless they strayed from the path a bit, which I think would make for a more fun game. Lucrative trade route or good mission that take you to a dangerous system? Weigh up the risks. It would also make those who like to attack others weigh up their risks more. You can go into high security systems and jump a few CMDR’s, but expect a quick response from a fleet of security ships who will attack and hunt you down.
Player attacks are part of open and can be fun.
The problem is a crime prevention/punishment is way too soft when this happens. All systems feel the same in terms of security. There may be a bounty but it’s too easy to fly with one and too easy to pay off. (changes are incoming for that).
It should be very dangerous for anyone carrying out unprovoked attacks in high security systems, and much more dangerous for people looking to avoid PvP in low security systems, this would allow people to play in open with a bit more safety unless they strayed from the path a bit, which I think would make for a more fun game. Lucrative trade route or good mission that take you to a dangerous system? Weigh up the risks. It would also make those who like to attack others weigh up their risks more. You can go into high security systems and jump a few CMDR’s, but expect a quick response from a fleet of security ships who will attack and hunt you down.