Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Robert Maynard]

Except that in the NPC mode you can gather money much more easily as the NPC are weaker than humans, and use that same money to buy better weapons to kill humans in open play. lol I just don't see it the same way that's all.

A number of players have offered the opinion that the NPC AI in 1.3 is better than 1.2 and has been gradually improving over time - thanks to the efforts of Sarah-Jane Avory (SJA). In time, I expect there to be less of a difference between Solo and Open with respect to the difficulty of opponents encountered. What is different is that players do things for out-of-game reasons whereas NPCs do not - that won't change....

 

[Roybe]

If FD changed things to cater to the open players who feel forced into solo to be competitive would they not also have to do something for lone players in open that feel forced to solo because they are outnumbered and therefore can't compete with winged players?

Lone players play their way by choice, right? If the game is to hard in Open because of wings, and there are wings in private...even if they are NPC's, what's the difference. Will Lone Players play in a wing to balance out their playstyle? Are they still Lone Players if they utilize an NPC wing for themselves, if available in any mode?

Ultimately, I agree with your idea, if they feel they are being forced to a different play mode by the game, they need to speak up. No one should have to feel forced to a different play mode because their current play mode is preventing them from being effective to achieve developer goals.

 

[Sendraks]

Except that in the NPC mode you can gather money much more easily as the NPC are weaker than humans, and use that same money to buy better weapons to kill humans in open play. lol I just don't see it the same way that's all.

And yet people in open play regularly target profitable weaker human targets and equally profitable NPC targets do not exist. Furthermore, there are plenty of "PvPers" whose approach to combat is zero risk to them over maximum risk to the victim. So the whole "NPCs are weaker than humans" really doesn't stack up for those interactions.

I don't see a queue of people wanting to play "the victim" on open. The environment is currently skewed in favour of the aggressor.

 

[Cody]

[distant howling]

 

[SteveLaw]

[distant howling]

*Chucks more biscuits in the cupboard.*

 

[Roybe]

The direction frontier is currently taking seems to imply Solo/Group mode are no longer seen as legitimate game modes.

Look at the past updates which have all been PVP centric apart from very small PVE additions.

In my mind frontier have spoken and already declared their contempt for any mode but open or any play style that doesn't involve blowing each other up.

I disagree, in that I think players have ideas about what each of these modes mean, and have different expectations than the game provides. Private modes are there to allow people to play how they want, with or without player interaction. They in no way prohibit you from playing the game. They prohibit unwanted interactions between sentient players. That really is all. There is no prohibition on any other part of the game. Wings was multiplayer focused, not PvP...it makes grouping up in Open and Private group a whole lot more fun for those folks.

Powerplay is actually a huge PvE update! Wait until you see it. Playing this in Prvate mode will be just as awesome as in Open...only you won't have to worry about player interaction..as always!

 

[fademist]

In the AMA yesterday, DBOBE himself said this which would does not seem to support that opinion:

was what players wanted to hear if he means it is other thing though to be fair

 

[Faded Glory]

Except that in the NPC mode you can gather money much more easily as the NPC are weaker than humans, and use that same money to buy better weapons to kill humans in open play. lol I just don't see it the same way that's all.

The NPC's are getting quite a buff in 1.3. They may not have the total kill instinct that humans have, but they are harder to kill (at least the higher ranked ones are). Also, and forgive me for going on too , but the contradiction that someone who's gained their wealth and equipment easily in Solo fighting only NPC's will surely then not hold a candle in combat to an Open hardened pilot is just one that I cannot get over.

There are plenty, crafting, selling your craft, buying services and goods from player, hire player for a refueling, repairing or escort you to a RES, and of course that is all just made up suppositions on what FD could or could not do in the futur, but if you take a close look at all my posts on this thread that's what I say from the beginning, If the modes go seperates, it need some changes, additions, and if there is multiplayer content added, the separation question need to be asked.
I never talk about the games in its current state.

So, some of the things that you mention you can already do. You could now hire a player to escort you as a wing member, you'd just have to figure out how you would pay them. Refueling is coming in 1.3, but the thing is, none of these are things are competitive, so why even discuss modes? It's not harder to any of those things in Open, it's only possible to do them if you are playing with others, either in Open or Group, and if they are seen as good things, then that is your motivation for playing in a mode that allows them. Someone playing Solo won't affect you at all, and nor would they adversely affect you if they decided to sign in to Open to engage with you in any of the examples you gave.

 

[Jockey79]

The direction frontier is currently taking seems to imply Solo/Group mode are no longer seen as legitimate game modes.

Look at the past updates which have all been PVP centric apart from very small PVE additions.

In my mind frontier have spoken and already declared their contempt for any mode but open or any play style that doesn't involve blowing each other up.

PvP centric ??

What game are you watching, because it is not Elite: Dangerous.
And try going back through the thread, the number of complaints that PP will punish PvP players and push them to PvE style of play to "make the most" out of the system.
Add that to the complaints that CG push folks in to PvE / Solo and I have to ask - what are you smoking !?!?!?!?!?

Please, name all the endless features and updates that have turned this into a PvP centric game, I'm on the edge of my seat !

 

[Lestenio]

The direction frontier is currently taking seems to imply Solo/Group mode are no longer seen as legitimate game modes.

Look at the past updates which have all been PVP centric apart from very small PVE additions.

In my mind frontier have spoken and already declared their contempt for any mode but open or any play style that doesn't involve blowing each other up.

Not sure how you managed to reach this conclusion since DB (who plays solo BTW) said the complete opposite only yesterday

 

[Tiro]

In the game, everyone is (potentially) competing with everyone else, regardless of game mode or platform - we have been told that the game will continue to have a shared galactic background simulation when the XBox One platform is added and presumably also when PS4 is added.

In the PP AMA with DBOBE it was stated that Powerplay will be for all players, not just players in Open.

No justification is required for the existence of any of the three game modes - they have all been part of the stated game design from the outset and, despite this debate having run for over two and a half years, are included in the launched game, along with the mode switching feature. Frontier have encouraged every player to "play the game how you want to" - this, however, gives no player the right to dictate to others how to play the game.



If the game had ever been pitched as a closed, competitive multi-player-only game then you would have a valid point - however, it was not - it has been a flexi-player game from the outset with a shared galactic background simulation.

Players are players, regardless of which mode(s) they play in - all modes "belong" to all players as we all have the ability to switch mode on a session by session basis. Sadly, some players seem to think that the game should be changed to restrict the choices available to other players to suit particular play-styles.... Thankfully, Frontier have shown no indication of capitulating to such demands.

With respect, the 'no justification required' stance is itself indefensible. It precludes any serious criticism of the way the 3 game modes interact with each other for no better reason than that was the original concept. Perhaps Frontier can do better than what was set out originally now that the problems are evident.

As things stand it will be more difficult for us to accomplish things in open because of direct player on player interaction coalescing around CG and such like. This will be exacerbated by PP because we're going to be in competition with people in our own factions to stay in the top x%, some or many of whom, will be playing the game with the competitive advantage of solo. This isn't about forcing people to play the game our way, it's about making open a viable alternative to solo, since FD have seen fit to create an expansion which puts players in competition with one another. It makes no sense for players in open to be ranked the same as players in solo when we're playing on completely different terms.

 

[Asp Explorer]

So you would prefer to see players forced into Open, with the resulting lulzbanning, instance exploitation, combat logging, DoS attacks and all other sorts of assorted goodies? Forcing players into positions they do not want to be in can lead to them being very creative for the lulz, at the expense of those who forced them. Freedom of choice is the important thing here.

 

[Cowboy Bats]

The direction frontier is currently taking seems to imply Solo/Group mode are no longer seen as legitimate game modes.

Look at the past updates which have all been PVP centric apart from very small PVE additions.

In my mind frontier have spoken and already declared their contempt for any mode but open or any play style that doesn't involve blowing each other up.

Looks like someone missed the AMA yesterday.

"We are supporting multiplayer and the solo experience. Community Goals are carrying on too." -David Braben

Edit: That sounded more harsh than I intended. I get where you are coming from, I was feeling pretty much the same yesterday, but the more I read the more I realize that PP isn't really going to devalue my experience. The rep decay will work as much in my favor as against, since my negative rep decays as well.

 

[cryon1cang3l]

If they support the solo expirience, this hurts the multiplayer expirience (by moving people into solo & private groups). How can they improve it, when people still do most of the stuff in solo?

 

[Robert Maynard]

With respect, the 'no justification required' stance is itself indefensible. It precludes any serious criticism of the way the 3 game modes interact with each other for no better reason than that was the original concept. Perhaps Frontier can do better than what was set out originally now that the problems are evident.

As things stand it will be more difficult for us to accomplish things in open because of direct player on player interaction coalescing around CG and such like. This will be exacerbated by PP because we're going to be in competition with people in our own factions to stay in the top x%, some or many of whom, will be playing the game with the competitive advantage of solo. This isn't about forcing people to play the game our way, it's about making open a viable alternative to solo, since FD have seen fit to create an expansion which puts players in competition with one another. It makes no sense for players in open to be ranked the same as players in solo when we're playing on completely different terms.

Given that:
1) Frontier had already decided in the three modes, shared galactic background simulation and mode switching before they went forward with their Kickstarter for the game;
2) The stated game design contained in the Kickstarter pitch has formed the basis of what we have now;
3) The game was backed, at least in part, due to the flexi-player nature of the game;
4) The existence of Solo (Online) was used in part to placate those who were disappointed (or worse) at the removal of Offline mode;
5) This particular argument has been going for over two years prior to launch and these core game features form part of the launched game;
6) The game was launched about six months ago;

.... I don't expect them to change this late in the day.

Frontier have, from the beginning of Powerplay, stated that it is able to be played in all modes. As there is no player hierarchy in a power, controlling affiliates of a Power is not possible. Players don't play 24/7, are not all in the same time zone and cannot all be in the same instance - therefore direct opposition to competition is not guaranteed.

You may not be trying to force others to play the game your way but you seek to remove game features that players are currently enjoying - which is almost the same thing.

Regarding ranking, all players inhabit the same galaxy, the same shared galactic background simulation - to have different outcomes of Powerplay in each mode would effectively split the GBS - something that Frontier seem to be extremely unlikely to do - especially given that XBox One players will also all affect the same shared GBS, as will PS4 players.

 

[Tiro]

So you would prefer to see players forced into Open, with the resulting lulzbanning, instance exploitation, combat logging, DoS attacks and all other sorts of assorted goodies? Forcing players into positions they do not want to be in can lead to them being very creative for the lulz, at the expense of those who forced them. Freedom of choice is the important thing here.

I don't want to get rid of solo, I just don't want solo influencing PP in open.

 

[fademist]

I don't want to get rid of solo, I just don't want solo influencing PP in open.

then u miss to read all the responds that explain that to u....

 

[Cowboy Bats]

If they support the solo expirience, this hurts the multiplayer expirience (by moving people into solo & private groups). How can they improve it, when people still do most of the stuff in solo?

That's not Frontier's problem. Frontier has given us 3 options, and it's up to the community to decide which mode to play in, and when. As for myself, I play solo. I didn't buy an MMO, I'm nobody's content, end of discussion.

 

[cryon1cang3l]

That's not Frontier's problem. Frontier has given us 3 options, and it's up to the community to decide which mode to play in, and when. As for myself, I play solo. I didn't buy an MMO, I'm nobody's content, end of discussion.

Yeah fine. But think about it from a different angle: this IS a MMO with an optional solo & group mode. And for this game to be successful, Frontier will need money. Not only what they got in the first place from kickstarter and early sales, they will need money every day - this is how MMOs work, the cost to run the server cluster and the cost of constant developtment are pretty high.

But as a PvPler you would think different. You NEED people to play with, this is why its called player vs player. And yes, you are my content and i`m your content ingame, we create the expirience together. If you refuse to join and many other people too (this is what we see right now), the MMO aspect will die completly.

 

[fademist]

Yeah fine. But think about it from a different angle: this IS a MMO with an optional solo & group mode. And for this game to be successful, Frontier will need money. Not only what they got in the first place from kickstarter and early sales, they will need money every day - this is how MMOs work, the cost to run the server cluster and the cost of constant developtment are pretty high.

But as a PvPler you would think different. You NEED people to play with, this is why its called player vs player. And yes, you are my content and i`m your content ingame, we create the expirience together. If you refuse to join and many other people too (this is what we see right now), the MMO aspect will die completly.

U r mistaken..its a game with 3 EQUAL modes that ppl can CHOOSE to play