The Powerplay discussion thread.

[Araviel]

You perhaps misunderstand. I've nothing against getting interdicted by the player even if I've invested 3 million in my cargo hold, it's simply the fact that pledging to a power seems to hinder your progress anywhere else in the galaxy that isn't aligned with your power simply because of the obvious Hostile status. Players would interdict you simple seeing the red "enemy" warning so much much more. I wouldn't consider going trading in a system I was wanted in (well not much anyway). PP doesn't seem to work together with the rest of the game in this regard with such an obvious "hostile" status for everyone to see with no way to clear it. Some might say don't pledge to a power then but I want to participate in both. Now I've changed my type-7 for a Python I may consider changing back to open I'd expect, in the type-7 I had no counter and like I say was losing money trading not gaining it.

Edit: perhaps removing the "hostile" status is a bad idea, was the first thing that came to mind, I'm simply telling my story really as to what made me choose solo play. I didn't like doing it, was my first time quite frankly, but had little choice if I want to trade in enemy space. Perhaps I can't have it both ways and pledge to a different power and exploit slaves in enemy space. Solo play gives you that option, perhaps it shouldn't and is the real problem right there, PP and the option to switch is perhaps one of the reasons PP is not compatible with both. Now I have my Python I am back in open none the less

i absolutely think that you should not feel bad about switching to solo when you need to. it is quite obvious to me that FD consider solo and open to be one and same, otherwise they would not connect them the way they have.
and i swap myself from time to time, because it is like you say and traders have few ways to counter attacks and i don't got many friends who are willing to fly escort for me, solo is then one of the few options that remains.
and i also like to see that traders got some more ways to defend them selfs in open, like a buff to miner launchers would be nice. but i think all this belongs to another topic since this topic is about giving us reasons for pvp and is not another solo vs open topic.

 

[Omega Fighter]

I can answer that question. It's because PvP is the one and only part of Elite that stays enjoyable and interesting after the first few hours when it's not yet completely repetitive, predictable farming.

Since it's the hands down best part of the game, it's natural to concentrate on it no?

Elite is a SP game with MP option for those who want it.

 

[obliterator]

Elite is a SP game with MP option for those who want it.

A game with both solo and MP option is always called a multiplayer game, actually.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Yes - added in this cycle's data yesterday, and it didn't change the fit curves that much. I'm fairly confident that - especially at high sizes - "systems cubed" or something close to that is the dominant factor. There are definitely other factors involved, though - Mahon, for instance, has had smaller overheads in both cycles than would be expected from the curve (this cycle they have basically the same number of systems as Patreus and Duval but only about 3/4 of the overheads)

Based on that, and assuming the average exploited system gives about 8 CC (seems close enough for the big ones like Hudson or Lavigny-Duval), but maintaining its control system costs you about 2 CC (more for a distant one, of course), then the ideal size for a power in terms of CC surplus is probably 250-350 systems. Beyond that new exploited systems probably cost you more in overheads than you get in direct income ... to the point where somewhere around 550-650 systems you can't maintain a CC surplus (depending on how good at fortifying without opposition you can be, and what the other factors are)

 

[ZXdunny]

A game with both solo and MP option is always called a multiplayer game, actually.

I can't speak for anyone else of my generation, but for my part I just wanted the Elite IV that Braben had promised all those years ago since the execrable FFE. Frontier was fun, but not really Elite as I saw it and what I really wanted was the original Elite with graphical updates. That's what I've got, and I certainly do not want to meet other players in my universe, thanks very much.

I wonder if there's any stats available on the number of Open vs Solo/Group players at all? Can't imagine it will be difficult for FD to gather. In short, you might want to spend your days blowing up other people and ruining what they've worked for; I prefer to play Elite.

D.

 

[Lucifer Hate]

I think a lot of power play activity is taking place in Solo or Private Group. Unless FD does something to make this less attractive PvP is going to be mainly limited to pirating, ganking or fighting pirates on known trade routes. I've encountered opposing CMDRs while on power play operations, but not as often as I should have based on the level of activity in the system.

This is your answer in a nutshell Viajero. Why would they risk PVP when they can more effectively farm merits in solo and group. It is the same reason 1 of the reasons piracy is dying is the fact that most traders avoid open to avoid the risk of other players. PP isnt what caused this problem but it did increase it

- - - Updated - - -

That's complete . The game itself makes it hard for willing players to find other willing pvp players. They have a hard time finding each other, but it's not because they don't want to.

It's also more "effective" to play solo, and it shouldn't be that way.

VERY TRUE!!!

 

[Viajero]

In the past 24 hours I have been in Power Play I have racked up over 16 Commander Kills. I have had some instancing issues, but that's to be expected and the lag isn't terrible.

Which area?

Yesterday evenning (Friday peak concurrence) 2 wings of my fellow commanders spent several hours in Hudson´s territory, including the frikking capital and zero fed players were encountered.

 

[Araviel]

Which area?

Yesterday evenning (Friday peak concurrence) 2 wings of my fellow commanders spent several hours in Hudson´s territory, including the frikking capital and zero fed players were encountered.

that sounds a little bit odd, could it been a wings issue?
if you got people whit very different latency in the wing perhaps the matchmaker gets trouble matching you whit everyone else

 

[Lucifer Hate]

Which area?

Yesterday evenning (Friday peak concurrence) 2 wings of my fellow commanders spent several hours in Hudson´s territory, including the frikking capital and zero fed players were encountered.

If you had that may people in 1 area instancing likely hurt you as well.. It is hard sometimes to get instanced with wingmates.. The instancing here with the P2P is terrible

 

[kilvenny]

I agree - PP is the first thing where I think the solo/open/group mechanic is a problem, because its too easy to duck out of certain types of conflict.

I would advocate two solutions. Firstly, that regime change happens at a conflict zone in which there is a finite spawn of npc's determined by the merits gained by either side. Entering the conflict zone triggers you into open play and once the npc's are dead from one side the battle is over. Secondly, the rebuy cost of deaths in that conflict zone are subsidised by the power you are fighting for , this would need balancing but I think might offer encouragement to players to pvp. It also brings PvP into focus and also makes it meaningful.

 

[fademist]

I agree - PP is the first thing where I think the solo/open/group mechanic is a problem, because its too easy to duck out of certain types of conflict.

I would advocate two solutions. Firstly, that regime change happens at a conflict zone in which there is a finite spawn of npc's determined by the merits gained by either side. Entering the conflict zone triggers you into open play and once the npc's are dead from one side the battle is over. Secondly, the rebuy cost of deaths in that conflict zone are subsidised by the power you are fighting for , this would need balancing but I think might offer encouragement to players to pvp. It also brings PvP into focus and also makes it meaningful.

noone duck out ..just some ppl dont want to play with open ppl.. to the topic now PP profit is just for laughs....

 

[Viajero]

If you had that may people in 1 area instancing likely hurt you as well.. It is hard sometimes to get instanced with wingmates.. The instancing here with the P2P is terrible

We had no issues whatsoever to wing up. Wings are working just fine (at least in my experience). Maybe in rare ocasions someone has an issue receiviing an invite, but a text message clears the problem.

Also both wings were not in the same system at the same time, we were actually scouting different systems each to have a better chance (including the capital), but just didnt find anyone.

 

[ZXdunny]

I agree - PP is the first thing where I think the solo/open/group mechanic is a problem, because its too easy to duck out of certain types of conflict.

I would advocate two solutions. Firstly, that regime change happens at a conflict zone in which there is a finite spawn of npc's determined by the merits gained by either side. Entering the conflict zone triggers you into open play

But the problem is that most solo players aren't doing it because they find it easier to advance in solo; most (from what I've seen) are in solo for two reasons: firstly because there's a disproportionate amount of players in the more populous areas (which means they'll be heading for the PP regions now) who like nothing more than to kill others - with no regard for roleplaying the pirate or whatever. Secondly they just want to play the game without others bothering them - they just want to play in a solo universe. Triggering a forced open play when they enter a CZ will likely result in solo players avoiding conflict zones altogether.

and once the npc's are dead from one side the battle is over. Secondly, the rebuy cost of deaths in that conflict zone are subsidised by the power you are fighting for , this would need balancing but I think might offer encouragement to players to pvp. It also brings PvP into focus and also makes it meaningful.

That would help for those who don't want to lose all their cash dying repeatedly, but I'm not convinced from reading these forums that there's going to be many of those.

D.

 

[Lowievisser]

Everyone is probably either

A. In solo play
B. In a private group
C. Not in your instance of 32 people because of network issues or other

Good luck with your PvP, you should probably wait for CqC which I hear has no affect on the main game and is in fact.......... Yes you guessed it, another Elite Dangerous Mini Game!
So we have:

Super cruise mini game
RES Combat mini game
Mining mini game
Trading mini game
Exploration mini game
Power Play mini game
Close Quarters Combat mini game

Did I miss anything?

Dont say everybody lols , i can safely say , since premium beta 1 i never ever played 1 minute solo or in a group , its feels like cheating...

 

[Yodafone]

i absolutely think that you should not feel bad about switching to solo when you need to. it is quite obvious to me that FD consider solo and open to be one and same, otherwise they would not connect them the way they have.
and i swap myself from time to time, because it is like you say and traders have few ways to counter attacks and i don't got many friends who are willing to fly escort for me, solo is then one of the few options that remains.
and i also like to see that traders got some more ways to defend them selfs in open, like a buff to miner launchers would be nice. but i think all this belongs to another topic since this topic is about giving us reasons for pvp and is not another solo vs open topic.

I agree this is not really the place, my reasons were to post my story, a scenario where normally I would stay in open but the option of having solo in itself made me less likely to play in open, which is why in some way if something was changed somehow to discourage this switching to solo, or visa versa encourage to stay in open would help improve things... in open, thus making it somewhat relevant to the PVP topic in this thread. I expect I am not alone, many do this switch which may contribute to less players staying in open whilst participating in PP.

Thanks for your replies Araviel

 

[DJ]

Dont say everybody lols , i can safely say , since premium beta 1 i never ever played 1 minute solo or in a group , its feels like cheating...

Same here - my 23 insurance claims since wipe day reinforces my stance!

 

[Daffan]

I don't see any reason to incentivize PvP. Why do we/FD need to prop something up like that? If there isn't enough players into PvP then that's by the players choice. FD may be interested, but I don't see a need.

This is the wrong way to think about it.

People choose not to PVP because they get nothing out of it. You cant progress in this game with pvp. Powerplay should have some affect from pvp, not just shooting unarmed npc traders 24/7 with no challenge.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I agree - PP is the first thing where I think the solo/open/group mechanic is a problem, because its too easy to duck out of certain types of conflict.

I would advocate two solutions. Firstly, that regime change happens at a conflict zone in which there is a finite spawn of npc's determined by the merits gained by either side. Entering the conflict zone triggers you into open play and once the npc's are dead from one side the battle is over. Secondly, the rebuy cost of deaths in that conflict zone are subsidised by the power you are fighting for , this would need balancing but I think might offer encouragement to players to pvp. It also brings PvP into focus and also makes it meaningful.

I would not expect that Frontier would make such a change as forcing players from Solo to Open if they engaged in combat in a combat zone would be inconsistent with the encouragement that Frontier have given to us all: "play the game how you want to" - the forcing aspect would seem to be more "play the game how others want you to". No player is required to be content for any other, however they can choose to do so.

Anyway - if this thread degenerates into another incarnation of the "Solo vs Open vs Groups" thread, it will be merged there....

 

[Derath]

I would not expect that Frontier would make such a change as forcing players from Solo to Open if they engaged in combat in a combat zone would be inconsistent with the encouragement that Frontier have given to us all: "play the game how you want to" - the forcing aspect would seem to be more "play the game how others want you to". No player is required to be content for any other, however they can choose to do so.

Anyway - if this thread degenerates into another incarnation of the "Solo vs Open vs Groups" thread, it will be merged there....

I think the issue is PvP cannot be seperated from the open vs solo debate, its oil and water they just don't mix no matter how hard you try, or how much you pretend.

On topic I think PP has been wonderful for PvP, certainly I get attacked more often even without my old 76mil bounty. I've not been interdicted by a psycho yet but hostile powers trying to stop me in my home systems or when i'm undermining has been good fun!

I just feel like there is a lack of rewards for taking a much harder route, I cannot believe they didn't give a standing rich sum for PvP participation in powerplay, like 100 merits per kill so people really got stuck into each other. This should apply for when you are out undermining or when you see a hostile in your own area.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I think the issue is PvP cannot be seperated from the open vs solo debate, its oil and water they just don't mix no matter how hard you try, or how much you pretend.

Simply put, PvP is optional in this game. The three game modes usually enter into the debate when PvP proponents feel that they lack players to target.