Petition to bring back the DDF/DDA and get back on track.

^ I think this hits the nail on the head.

As several posters have commented, it's the lack of a roadmap communicated by the developers that frustrates. Combined with new 'features' that no one expected or wanted (PP, CQ) raises the worry that things that people really do want (landings, ship interiors, etc) may never materialise.
It doesn't have to be a roadmap even ... if Frontier want to develop ED in the same way Mojang developed Minecraft, then how about a bit more openness about the update? Instead of waiting until the update is done to then post the changelog and have us all go "Oh, so that's what you've been doing", do what Mojang do ... they tweet or post on Reddit about their work on the next update. I know more about the 1.9 update that's coming for Minecraft (and have done for several months now) than I did for the 1.3 update for ED ... and I only found out about CQC when they announced it at E3

It's this keeping the community in the dark, is what I feel they are doing wrong. Frontier just appointed Zac as "Head Of Community", and while I wish him the best in his new job, I don't see the point. Nothing will change, we, the community, won't magically start getting more info. As Edward told me, they can't give out info because of the their legal dept. Nothing will change.
 
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There was never any confusion at all on anyone's part. Everyone knew that DDF members weren't just talking for fun, they all knew they were supposed to be helping FD make design DECISIONS, not just idle banter for the sake of pledging $500 and mingling with devs.


You are creating a false dichotomy.
There is a lot of room in between making design decisions and idle banter.

It boggles my mind that you really seem to expect that a forum full of contradicting and quarreling and also incompetent voices should make decisions about a game that is so important to the developer in general and David Braben in particular.
You are totally unrealistic in your expectations. It is simply not possible, not doable, not practical.
What is more: I strongly believe what you want would be counterproductive and destroy the game in the end.

The fact that the founders got a big influence in the design process is clear, the community still has an influence, but in the end there can be only one that makes the final decisions. You need someone at the helm with a strong vision where to go.

I think FD does a great job, but many in the community seem to be completely devoid of patience and also to lack the understanding about the enormity of this project. FD will implement more DDF stuff, but they simply need the time to do so.

Thank god we as a forum community are not the ones in the captain's chair.
 
You are creating a false dichotomy.
There is a lot of room in between making design decisions and idle banter.

It boggles my mind that you really seem to expect that a forum full of contradicting and quarreling and also incompetent voices should make decisions about a game that is so important to the developer in general and David Braben in particular.
You are totally unrealistic in your expectations. It is simply not possible, not doable, not practical.
What is more: I strongly believe what you want would be counterproductive and destroy the game in the end.

The fact that the founders got a big influence in the design process is clear, the community still has an influence, but in the end there can be only one that makes the final decisions. You need someone at the helm with a strong vision where to go.

I think FD does a great job, but many in the community seem to be completely devoid of patience and also to lack the understanding about the enormity of this project. FD will implement more DDF stuff, but they simply need the time to do so.

Thank god we as a forum community are not the ones in the captain's chair.
Not disagreeing with what you said here, but I need to correct you on one small thing ... it wasn't Founders in the DDF. I am one of those at Founder level, but I don't have DDF access.
£150 - "Founder Of The Elite"
£200 - Alpha Testing
£300 - DDF

If we're going to discuss it, let's get facts right.
 
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Alien can have the steering wheel, while I do the navigating - how's that?
Then I decide where we go (I have the steering wheel)

Wait, when did this become a roadtrip? Did you bring enough beer? and snacks? I need to go pee! Are we there yet? :D
 
Then I decide where we go (I have the steering wheel)

Wait, when did this become a roadtrip? Did you bring enough beer? and snacks? I need to go pee! Are we there yet? :D

Suggests new thread title ... DDF / DDA : Are we there yet? :rolleyes:

(ED forums have already enclosed, hundreds of versions of AWTY threads)
 
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Probably not a suitable change for this one (sorry, I made edit above) ...
but AWTY, AWTY questions .. might have something to do with FD backing away from DDF in the first place.
U never know.
Yeah ... back to the topic at hand ...

I don't know if restoring the DDF is really a good idea ... I think Frontier should never have abandoned it to begin with, but now they have, I don't see how they could bring it back.
The number of us backers from the kickstarter and up to when Beta access was withdrawn from the shop, are now outnumbered by those who came after. If Frontier brought the DDF to the original group, there'd be too many on here crying "'snot fair" and wanting DDF access. If Frontier then somehow, made it possible for new people to get DDF access, I'd be worried that people who aren't as familiar with Elite, would dominate the new DDF, and the game would not go in the direction the original DDF was going.

As much as I'd like the DDF back (and FWIW I'm not in it), I think it's best if Frontier continue as they are doing now (but being more open wouldn't hurt).
 
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You are creating a false dichotomy.
There is a lot of room in between making design decisions and idle banter.

It boggles my mind that you really seem to expect that a forum full of contradicting and quarreling and also incompetent voices should make decisions about a game that is so important to the developer in general and David Braben in particular.
You are totally unrealistic in your expectations. It is simply not possible, not doable, not practical.
What is more: I strongly believe what you want would be counterproductive and destroy the game in the end.

The fact that the founders got a big influence in the design process is clear, the community still has an influence, but in the end there can be only one that makes the final decisions. You need someone at the helm with a strong vision where to go.

I think FD does a great job, but many in the community seem to be completely devoid of patience and also to lack the understanding about the enormity of this project. FD will implement more DDF stuff, but they simply need the time to do so.

Thank god we as a forum community are not the ones in the captain's chair.

Your putting words in my mouth I haven't used. I never said DDF members made design decisions for FD or "voted" how the game will be. Don't twist my thoughts into your fears or what you imagine I'm saying, because you're wrong.

But, if you like CQC and PP, by all means, keep cheering the current path on.

It boggles my mind that you, or anyone, could think FD is doing anything other than chasing money and letting sales drive the direction of the game, as opposed to delivering the game they promised. As for CQC and PP, if you think FD has only been working on them since December, you're sadly mistaken.

What I am saying and hoping, is that if FD followed the DDA, CQC and PP wouldn't have happened and if the DDF had been consulted prior to these two abominations perhaps FD would have stuck to the "vision" or "path" as opposed to cash grabbing by changing the direction of the game.

You may not agree with my position but, don't put words in my mouth I didn't say. At the most basic level, yes I do expect a group of arguing DDF members could come up with something better than CQC and PP, all I have to do is read the DDA to see that, matter of FACT, FD is responsible for the DDA, DDF members just "helped" FD.

So, if you want to know why the DDF is dead, it's because David and Michael decided to go off the path with CQC and PP so there was no need for it and if people had known about it they would have left in droves months ago.
 
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It boggles my mind that you really seem to expect that a forum full of contradicting and quarreling and also incompetent voices should make decisions about a game that is so important to the developer in general and David Braben in particular.
.

Hang on a sec. I just looked at a couple of the Design Decision posts for a few of the mechanics in elite.

All the ones I saw were posted by a FD employee and start along the lines of "Here are the mechancis for X that we have agreed on".

ie it is already agreed by FD as being what they wanted and not a bunch of pie in the sky unrealistic demands of a disjointed forum all shouting at once.

should every DDA goal be made? No of course not, this is not realistic, however imo the guys over at FD owe it to the DDF members at least to post about why a given agreed mechanic was dropped in favour of a different one, and also give an idea if it is interim with a view to still aiming for the DDA or if the new solution is deemed working as intended.

imo...... DDF members paid 15x more iirc than the base cost of the game on kickstarter to have their say in core game mechanics..... is it not basic politeness to at least keep them in the loop for each idea getting dropped.

(but as ever, to finish on the positive, I still love ED, its just fustrating as it has the potential for true greatness imo)
 
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Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
That feeling of meaningless is what prompted the thread to be created. Sanderson, (like most of us) has no idea what is planned for Elite or where it is heading, hence he created a thread to discuss that unknown element.

So yes I agree with you, there is no meaning to this thread until Frontier give us context. Meanwhile we are just left guessing and debating. Maybe the game is on track and just not there yet. But maybe it isn't. Who knows...

I believe there are tons of elements of the DDA and dev diaries that have actually been delivered and in some cases, like SuperCruise mechanics, surpassed original plans. I think it is important not to forget that, especially when you consider that it has all been done so far in under 2 years and change.

Having said that I agree that not knowing FDEV plans for the rest can be unsettling for some. What is missing compared to the DDA is known, and we could eventually summarize it here relatively easily.

But I think the real value in this thread would be to actually propose priorities on those, based on the posters interest, for FDEV to eventually consider. Other than that, and given the DDA was never a guarantee of anything, this thread is just another "I want MOAR" thread I am afraid.
 
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I believe there are tons of elements of the DDA and dev diaries that have actually been delivered and in some cases, like SuperCruise mechanics, surpassed original plans. I think it is important not to forget that, especially when you consider that it has all been done so far in under 2 years and change.

Having said that I agree that not knowing FDEV plans for the rest can be unsettling for some. What is missing compared to the DDA is known, and we could eventually summarize it here relatively easily.

But I think the real value in this thread would be to actually propose priorities on those, based on the posters interest, for FDEV to eventually consider. Other than that, and given the DDA was never a guarantee of anything, this thread is just another "I want MOAR" thread I am afraid.

No, it's a "I want what you said you were going to do" and "stop wasting resources on things that's not in the DDA, until the DDA is in there".

By all means, start a thread pointing out what's left unfinished in the DDA and what you feel in already in or surpassed, see how far that gets you.
 
There is this old and interesting statement by Mike Evans from November last year:

Good thing we never actually said that the DDA is a list of features that will be in the release of the game then.

Now, I read that as "Not a list of features for Dec. 16, but hopefully later." But it could also mean "Not a list features for any release."

But isn't it absurd to assume that FD did those discussions and final proposals without themselves having the intention to implement them one day? Otherwise, what's the point in having them?
 
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