Why I regret joining the DDF and not a fan of Open Development...

JeffRyan

JeffRyan
It's been bugging me for a very very long time now. And I've been quite critical of Frontier at times because of it as well.

Joining the DDF was exciting, I enjoyed the discussions, the arguments and the insights into the development process. So why do I now regret it?

It actually has very little to do with the game and everything to do with it as well. I think I might have been happier if I had been involved in the DDF of a game that WASN'T Elite. Whilst not an '84er (I'd have been 6) I was an '89er on my Commodore 64, loved Frontier and First Encounters later on in the 90s.

So Elite probably tops my 'favourite game of all time' list. Closely followed by Chaos (I'm enjoying the new version of that as well).

So being involved in the DDF and getting a look at how they went through the list, the game features and the discussions of all of that. I'm saddened by how much of what I personally wanted isn't in yet (Horizons offers more of what I was looking for too). I particularly loved the NPCs discussions and the Ship's Crew, elaborating on what we had from Frontier and First Encounters.

Seeing all that work, discussing all the options (explorers content, misjumps, dark systems etc) was amazing. But not seeing it in the game... well it hurts.

Now here's the thing. I love Elite: Dangerous. Flawed as it is, I think some of those flaws (for me) come from looking at the wish list that is the DDF (now found in the DD Archive).

I wish I didn't know about the things we discussed as it really takes away from what is otherwise a pretty awesome game in its own right.

Open development has been interesting, but ultimately, for a title so close to my heart, it has been detrimental to my enjoyment of the long awaited Elite 4.
 

Sysmon

Sysmon
There is a trick to dealing with this sense of loss: Like when you love some one, let them go and be free! Besides ED I've been in quite a few projects like this (job hazard, really) starting with a fun discussion group in the early 90s searching implementable sci fi ideas for ESA and NASA. In all cases, when the brainstorming stopped, it was time to step back and see what the development teams could make out of it.

Inevitably it was something very different from what anybody had envisioned. But in the end, success was indicated by working model, a running project.

Just like raising a child.

:D S
 
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JeffRyan

JeffRyan
Sysmon said:
There is a trick to dealing with this sense of loss: Like when you love some one, let them go and be free! Besides ED I've been in quite a few projects like this (job hazard, really) starting with a fun discussion group in the early 90s searching implementable sci fi ideas for ESA and NASA. In all cases, when the brainstorming stopped, it was time to step back and see what the development teams could make out of it.

Inevitably it was something very different from what anybody had envisioned. But in the end, success was indicated by working model, a running project.

Just like raising a child.

:D S
Click to expand...

She's all grown up now...

/sob
 

Armour

A
I guess this is how game developers feel most of the time. The little kid part of them probably wants to add every feature ever, but the adult bit knows that they have to release a product eventually, so priorities will need to be decided, and some things will face the chop. There are countless unfinished game projects on various storage media around the world that withered on the vine because idealistic ambition got the better of pragmatism. At least this one got made, eventually.
 

JeffRyan

JeffRyan
Yeah, I guess the point (for me at least) is I shouldn't be so critical of the way the game turned out. I was too close, if I hadn't had access to the DDF or the DDA I'd probably have been even more enthusiastic about the final product.
 

Psycho Romeo

Psycho Romeo
I don't know because I wasn't there, but wasn't there a lot of whining that happened that ended up changing much of the game, eventually causing FD to stop sharing stuff all together?

For stuff like offline mode, I can understand. But from what I have gleaned it seems that many people who were a part of the DDF ended up beating the snot out of FD, resulting in what we have now.
 

deMangler

deMangler
JeffRyan said:
Yeah, I guess the point (for me at least) is I shouldn't be so critical of the way the game turned out. I was too close, if I hadn't had access to the DDF or the DDA I'd probably have been even more enthusiastic about the final product.
Click to expand...

I feel the same way. I have not yet reached the stage of not continuously reminding the forum of the DDA and kickstarter promises so in a way I might be spoiling others' enjoyment of the game by pointing out could-have-beens. My main intention is to not to allow the game we thought we were getting die without a bit of a fight, or maybe at this stage just to not let it's passing go un-noticed. It was a great game we backed, but why let a dead game spoil a live one....
 
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JeffRyan

JeffRyan
Psycho Romeo said:
I don't know because I wasn't there, but wasn't there a lot of whining that happened that ended up changing much of the game, eventually causing FD to stop sharing stuff all together?

For stuff like offline mode, I can understand. But from what I have gleaned it seems that many people who were a part of the DDF ended up beating the snot out of FD, resulting in what we have now.
Click to expand...

Hah! Not even close. How it worked.

Proposal by Frontier on Subject.

Discussion.

Revised Proposal by Frontier.

The ball was always in their court, the items in their court and what was put before us and the final revision was always done by Frontier.
 

Patrick_68000

Patrick_68000
Do not forget that the game was released there is less than 1 year. Many things will come in the future. And I am almost sure that the archives of the DDF remain a solid base of ideas for Frontier
 

Armour

A
JeffRyan said:
Your eternal optimism is eternal Patrick.
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Well, they did say they were in this for the long haul - at least they have a solid base of genuine improvements that they can implement and make the expansion process worthwhile for years to come, rather than shooting their wad in the first few months and having nothing to promote in a few years' time except improved gear/loot or gimmicky "alien of the week" content patches.
 
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deMangler

deMangler
JeffRyan said:
Hah! Not even close. How it worked.

Proposal by Frontier on Subject.

Discussion.

Revised Proposal by Frontier.

The ball was always in their court, the items in their court and what was put before us and the final revision was always done by Frontier.
Click to expand...

Yes it was always FD leading the discussion and we were always, repeatedly reminded that the proposals were directly intended to shape game design and thus all the effort we were putting in was not being wasted on stuff just invented to fulfil a pledge. I think this point alone explains a lot of the 'whining'.
Personally if I had realised how much the DDF was actually going to affect the game I still would have given FD the money but would have wasted much less time contributing to refining and troubleshooting vapourware.
 

Privata

Privata
My guess would be your ideas are still on there ''to-do'' list same for all the DDF.
I hope. I was of course not part of it sadly I was buisy alpha testing a space game that... had a less than steller responce when it was out
 

Psycho Romeo

Psycho Romeo
JeffRyan said:
Hah! Not even close. How it worked.

Proposal by Frontier on Subject.

Discussion.

Revised Proposal by Frontier.

The ball was always in their court, the items in their court and what was put before us and the final revision was always done by Frontier.
Click to expand...
Well, ask yourself: If you had not been a part of the DDF, would the 'this-was-how-it-could-have-been's turn into 'what-if-it-was-done-like-this's and would that be any less unpleasant to live with?
 

JeffRyan

JeffRyan
Privata said:
My guess would be your ideas are still on there ''to-do'' list same for all the DDF.
I hope. I was of course not part of it sadly I was buisy alpha testing a space game that... had a less than steller responce when it was out
Click to expand...

Oh... poor poor you (Didn't take me more than three seconds to figure out which game you meant). Our game here just confuses people which I think doesn't help but is really funny.
 

[VR] Deggial

[VR] Deggial
JeffRyan said:
She's all grown up now...

/sob
Click to expand...

Did you expect her to visit the high-school with the age of 5?
No?
Well, why not give ED some time to grow as well? Sure, the DDF is not fully implemented yet - indeed, large parts are missing. But there are still many, many years left to grow.
It is not necessary to give up your hopes and whishes about the game - it is necessary to allow it to develop.

(Really, when FD speaks about a 10 year plan - how do people think, these years will be filled, if everything is already present at the start? 'Horizons' is the next big step towards the goal. The NEXT step, not the LAST! Have patience - and faith!)
 
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JeffRyan

JeffRyan
Psycho Romeo said:
Well, ask yourself: If you had not been a part of the DDF, would the 'this-was-how-it-could-have-been's turn into 'what-if-it-was-done-like-this's and would that be any less unpleasant to live with?
Click to expand...

That's a discussion that interests me far less to be honest, it still happens but is nowhere near as exciting (and disheartening) as LET'S MAKE A GAME!!!
 
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