It would bring me over, so your statement is incorrect.
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I think you need to re-read his post, he's not asking to force anyone to play open.
Please try again.
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It would bring me over, so your statement is incorrect.
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I think you need to re-read his post, he's not asking to force anyone to play open.
Please try again.
If you are looking to see more human players in Open, perhaps you should petition FD to create a game with only two star systems to funnel all Open players into those two. Then you'll see all the humans you want. As it is, with the whole Galaxy available, everyone can go anywhere. Even if every player played only in Open, you probably won't see more than you already do.
Perhaps a better solution for you is to publicly post your schedule of what system you will be in and when. Then all the people who care can then jump there and give you your content.
Perhaps a better solution for you is to publicly post your schedule of what system you will be in and when. Then all the people who care can then jump there and give you your content.
Really? Why did this thread get merged? One part of the OP post was about modes. There was plenty of other stuff in there too. It may not have been a fantastic thread, but it didn't belong here.
What on earth is griefing..?
Yaffle
Volunteer Moderator
I know there were a couple of merges in here, but please could you look a the first post of the thread and note the rules.
No flaming, baiting, insulting. Discuss the topic, which is open - solo - groups and not each other. Don't use words like 'carebare' or 'psycho'.
Thanks.
No flaming, baiting, insulting. Discuss the topic, which is open - solo - groups and not each other. Don't use words like 'carebare' or 'psycho'.
Thanks.
The OP isn't trying to tell you how to play, he's proposing giving added reward for added risk, it's what games do all the time, including ED.
Please try again.
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Mmm. Because you didn't read the warning at the start of this post...
It wasn't my post. I had commented on it. As had others. I even asked everyone to leave the mode bit and discuss the rest of the thoughts. The thread had certainly not divolved into a mode debate at all. I'd go back and double-check but now it's just lost in this mess.
So repost the original question, but without the mode bit and it won't get bitten... unless of course the conversation leads that way anyway.
Good question, generally assumed to be anyone playing the game that constantly attacks others and in general is a bit of a pain.
Why should that be a problem?
I got the game exactly because, given how its multiplayer was described, players like you wouldn't be allowed to ruin the game for me. So, for me, Solo being not only available, but the equal of Open in all but who we meet, is actually one of the game's best features ever.
"I don't see this as an MMO in the traditional sense, unless you think of Call of Duty as an MMO." — David Braben, the guy who has the final say about everything ED.
(Taken from Jockey79's Wall of Info)
You can't have a game requiring quick reflexes with a single global server; it's a technical impossibility, as latency would make it unplayable. In other words, if you want to avoid carving out ED into different versions for each continent, instancing and peer to peer are required. It only works for EVE because that game's combat is a half-step above turn based.
BTW, XBox players influence the same background galaxy, but you will never meet them as a PC player. And vice-versa. So, plenty of people for you to never see, and nothing you (or, to a large extent, even Frontier) can do about it.
CQC is aimed at those that want consequences-free PvP. Like me. I doubt I will ever engage in PvP in Open, but I love the idea of CQC.
If your idea of "fun" PvP is to be able to cause actual loses to other players, regardless of whether that will ruin their day, CQC isn't for you.
Very subjective. Some love it, some would delete a game over it. I'm part of the second group, after spending the best part of a decade trying to "embrace it" and finding out that, no, I will never enjoy that kind of gameplay.The danger is the lure of Open play, but you can't filter out "the stupid kind", you've got to accept that anything can happen. It's down to you to be prepared for it! If you embrace that, I'm sure you'll have a great experience
When it comes to his desire for Open to be the one true mode, though, "He should have known what he was buying" is a perfectly valid response. How Solo works, how players can freely switch between modes, and how no mode gets any extrinsic advantage are all features that many of us, Solo and Group players, enjoy, and in many cases were even decisive in getting us to purchase the game in the first place.
I'm a bit of a newcomer to the whole Open vs Private vs Solo debate, having lurked in the background of this thread but never having made my own opinions known, but the post I've quoted below finally gave me the impetus needed to put my own thoughts into words.
First off, I'd like to make it clear that what I'm about to say is *my opinion only*, and not to be taken as any sort of attempt to force *my way of playing* on other players. How you play is your business, and more power to you for making the choices you do. However, I do feel the need to respond to some of the points raised by LasherX5 based on my own experiences in the E: D universe.
Here goes.
My first point is to refute the idea that ED is '...a game that forces its players to create their own content...' ED doesn't *force* anyone to do anything. Yes, the game as it stands *encourages* players to create their own content and does allow for some incredible emergent game play (Fuel Rats, Mercs of Mikkun, The Code, etc), but there's nobody holding a gun to your head telling you *have* to do this. There's not even any form of player-driven storyline to guide players through the 'verse, just the FDev appointed Community Goals that players can choose to do if they wish.
If we're talking about the scarcity of players in any given instance then it's not just the modes that's fragmenting the player base: there's also the different platforms (do Mac & PC players exist in the same universe? I know Xbox players have their own somewhat alternate reality to play around in); there's the vagaries of the P2P instancing system (the few times I've been in Open, even when involved in player-heavy CGs, I've barely encountered other CMDRs - I've had more meaningful encounters in the Mobius Private Group than I've experienced in Open); and there's the time-zone differences (the chances of me, in the UK, being on at the same time as a CMDR in Australia are pretty slim). Even without the mode options that's a lot of fragmentation.
As for this fragmentation '...hurting our ability to create engaging content, situations and opportunities for exciting gameplay...', I'd argue that all of that already exists. How many of the recent CGs have been player-designed? I know of at least five (including the current 'Among The Stars' CG) recently that were either created or driven by player involvement, and where there are CGs you can pretty much count on the more PvP-centric players being there to pirate, blockade or protect the event as they desire. The reason The Code get so much airtime on these forums is *exactly* because they're creating '...engaging content, situations and opportunities for exciting gameplay...'
Perhaps you find NPCs to be '...predictable, boring and easily outsmarted...' but not all players do. For some players, NPCs are the *only* valid targets for pew-pew, either because they know they wouldn't last five seconds against a capable CMDR or because their own code of honour as a player simply won't allow them to target other players. I fall into the latter camp; I really don't see any justification for targeting other players given that I know just how frustrated I'd feel if someone came along and PK'd me just for lulz. I don't like being on the receiving end of such behaviour, so why should I expect others to put up with it? If I want some PvP action then I'll launch CQC instead of the main game; at least there everybody knows what to expect.
I'd also argue that traders in Solo *do* face risks. Since the 1.4 update I'd argue that traders in solo face a great deal of risk, what with the increased difficulty in evading interdictions and the somewhat more aggressive NPC behaviour that I've been seeing. Solo traders are now in a situation where they have to learn how to mitigate the risk by equipping their cargo haulers with shields, learning how to boost and run, and (the number one rule) not flying without a decent buffer of credits to cover buy-back and a fresh load of cargo. Canny traders will also start to pay attention to the BGS and move their trade operations into higher Security systems where there's less chance of being interdicted, but even then they're still facing the possibility that their next hyper jump could find them at the business end of an NPC pirate's beam lasers.
There are traders in Open; from what I've seen of the recent trade CGs there are a lot of traders in Open. There are also a lot in Private Groups and a lot in Solo. And the pirates in Open (i.e. The Code to name one group) seem to be finding plenty of lovely fat targets for their particular brand of piracy. This in turn translates into plenty of Wanted targets for the dedicated Bounty Hunters who want a little bit of PvP action. And Trade Escorts? While I've never actually seen any of these in action for myself I've read enough posts on here and on reddit to suggest that they're already happening, especially at trade CGs.
The main reason that Bounty Hunters end up '...stuck fighting endless waves of NPCs...' isn't due to the lack of pirates in Open; it's because the endless waves of NPCs are easier targets and there's *always* going to be more of them, so that makes them more profitable for the career bounty hunter to target. When you're given a choice of hunting down a player CMDR (who may or may not be online at any given time, and may or may not appear in your instance even if you're lucky enough to be in the same star system) or a bunch of mindless NPCs, the obvious choice is to follow the path of least resistance and go for the NPCs - at least that way you can be sure of making some money out of the encounter.
Of course, there are going to be those Bounty Hunters who *only* want to target other CMDRs, and again I say more power to them. But given the size of just the inhabited bubble of space we get to play in and given the relatively tiny player base online at any given time, I'd say those CMDR Bounty Hunters are going to have one hell of a job on their hands to make a living.
I've already discussed my thoughts about this above, but to reiterate my argument, I'd say Open already has a large enough population of willing participants, many of who fall into the categories of Big Traders, Pirates and Bounty Hunters, and there are already valid reasons to use wings in trading (trade vouchers), mining (miner + bodyguards), pirating (strength in superior numbers) and bounty hunting (as for pirates). As for Powerplay, I get all of my intel from the reddit group for my particular patron, and while I'll admit a PP-dedicated chat channel for each power would be nice in-game, I don't think you need to be in Open get the most out of PP.
Based on my own experiences I personally don't think that Open carries any more risk than the other two play modes. The few times I have been in Open I've rarely encountered other CMDRS, and of the two PvP encounters I've had, one was another CMDR ramming my cobra to death in a station's no-fire zone and the other was a pirate chasing me down because I chose to run instead of handing over the 8 tons of Heike Tea I'd just carried halfway across the bubble (it still took him three interdictions to finish me off). As a result, in my experience the amount of risk involved in playing in open would appear to be equal to that involved in playing in Private or Solo.
However, if you genuinely feel that Open offers a greater risk than the other two modes then I'm forced to echo an earlier commenter's questions: isn't that extra risk its own reward?
First off, I'd like to make it clear that what I'm about to say is *my opinion only*, and not to be taken as any sort of attempt to force *my way of playing* on other players. How you play is your business, and more power to you for making the choices you do. However, I do feel the need to respond to some of the points raised by LasherX5 based on my own experiences in the E: D universe.
Here goes.
My first point is to refute the idea that ED is '...a game that forces its players to create their own content...' ED doesn't *force* anyone to do anything. Yes, the game as it stands *encourages* players to create their own content and does allow for some incredible emergent game play (Fuel Rats, Mercs of Mikkun, The Code, etc), but there's nobody holding a gun to your head telling you *have* to do this. There's not even any form of player-driven storyline to guide players through the 'verse, just the FDev appointed Community Goals that players can choose to do if they wish.
If we're talking about the scarcity of players in any given instance then it's not just the modes that's fragmenting the player base: there's also the different platforms (do Mac & PC players exist in the same universe? I know Xbox players have their own somewhat alternate reality to play around in); there's the vagaries of the P2P instancing system (the few times I've been in Open, even when involved in player-heavy CGs, I've barely encountered other CMDRs - I've had more meaningful encounters in the Mobius Private Group than I've experienced in Open); and there's the time-zone differences (the chances of me, in the UK, being on at the same time as a CMDR in Australia are pretty slim). Even without the mode options that's a lot of fragmentation.
As for this fragmentation '...hurting our ability to create engaging content, situations and opportunities for exciting gameplay...', I'd argue that all of that already exists. How many of the recent CGs have been player-designed? I know of at least five (including the current 'Among The Stars' CG) recently that were either created or driven by player involvement, and where there are CGs you can pretty much count on the more PvP-centric players being there to pirate, blockade or protect the event as they desire. The reason The Code get so much airtime on these forums is *exactly* because they're creating '...engaging content, situations and opportunities for exciting gameplay...'
Perhaps you find NPCs to be '...predictable, boring and easily outsmarted...' but not all players do. For some players, NPCs are the *only* valid targets for pew-pew, either because they know they wouldn't last five seconds against a capable CMDR or because their own code of honour as a player simply won't allow them to target other players. I fall into the latter camp; I really don't see any justification for targeting other players given that I know just how frustrated I'd feel if someone came along and PK'd me just for lulz. I don't like being on the receiving end of such behaviour, so why should I expect others to put up with it? If I want some PvP action then I'll launch CQC instead of the main game; at least there everybody knows what to expect.
I'd also argue that traders in Solo *do* face risks. Since the 1.4 update I'd argue that traders in solo face a great deal of risk, what with the increased difficulty in evading interdictions and the somewhat more aggressive NPC behaviour that I've been seeing. Solo traders are now in a situation where they have to learn how to mitigate the risk by equipping their cargo haulers with shields, learning how to boost and run, and (the number one rule) not flying without a decent buffer of credits to cover buy-back and a fresh load of cargo. Canny traders will also start to pay attention to the BGS and move their trade operations into higher Security systems where there's less chance of being interdicted, but even then they're still facing the possibility that their next hyper jump could find them at the business end of an NPC pirate's beam lasers.
There are traders in Open; from what I've seen of the recent trade CGs there are a lot of traders in Open. There are also a lot in Private Groups and a lot in Solo. And the pirates in Open (i.e. The Code to name one group) seem to be finding plenty of lovely fat targets for their particular brand of piracy. This in turn translates into plenty of Wanted targets for the dedicated Bounty Hunters who want a little bit of PvP action. And Trade Escorts? While I've never actually seen any of these in action for myself I've read enough posts on here and on reddit to suggest that they're already happening, especially at trade CGs.
The main reason that Bounty Hunters end up '...stuck fighting endless waves of NPCs...' isn't due to the lack of pirates in Open; it's because the endless waves of NPCs are easier targets and there's *always* going to be more of them, so that makes them more profitable for the career bounty hunter to target. When you're given a choice of hunting down a player CMDR (who may or may not be online at any given time, and may or may not appear in your instance even if you're lucky enough to be in the same star system) or a bunch of mindless NPCs, the obvious choice is to follow the path of least resistance and go for the NPCs - at least that way you can be sure of making some money out of the encounter.
Of course, there are going to be those Bounty Hunters who *only* want to target other CMDRs, and again I say more power to them. But given the size of just the inhabited bubble of space we get to play in and given the relatively tiny player base online at any given time, I'd say those CMDR Bounty Hunters are going to have one hell of a job on their hands to make a living.
Ignoring for a moment the fact that FDev have repeatedly told us that they consider all three game modes equal and valid, this approach would only entice a very small number of players into Open, and they would be the ones for whom the credit grind is the be-all and end-all of the game. Fortunately, there's a lot more to E: D than collecting credits, and those players who are in it for more than just the credits (a reasonably large percentage, I would suspect), the promise of a 10% bonus for switching modes simply wouldn't be enough. It certainly wouldn't entice me into Open when I don't want to be there. I spend most of my time in Private, with occasional forays into Open when I feel like being more social (or when I feel like 'testing the waters' after reading yet another thread about how The Code have been PKing at the latest CG), and no amount of credit incentive would convince me to change the way I play. I play for fun, and follow my own path, 'blazing my own trail'.
I've already discussed my thoughts about this above, but to reiterate my argument, I'd say Open already has a large enough population of willing participants, many of who fall into the categories of Big Traders, Pirates and Bounty Hunters, and there are already valid reasons to use wings in trading (trade vouchers), mining (miner + bodyguards), pirating (strength in superior numbers) and bounty hunting (as for pirates). As for Powerplay, I get all of my intel from the reddit group for my particular patron, and while I'll admit a PP-dedicated chat channel for each power would be nice in-game, I don't think you need to be in Open get the most out of PP.
Based on my own experiences I personally don't think that Open carries any more risk than the other two play modes. The few times I have been in Open I've rarely encountered other CMDRS, and of the two PvP encounters I've had, one was another CMDR ramming my cobra to death in a station's no-fire zone and the other was a pirate chasing me down because I chose to run instead of handing over the 8 tons of Heike Tea I'd just carried halfway across the bubble (it still took him three interdictions to finish me off). As a result, in my experience the amount of risk involved in playing in open would appear to be equal to that involved in playing in Private or Solo.
However, if you genuinely feel that Open offers a greater risk than the other two modes then I'm forced to echo an earlier commenter's questions: isn't that extra risk its own reward?
Glad to here it with such a venomous opinion of people with different views to you.
For the record, I play Solo because of hardware issues that turn ED in to a slide show on Open/Group..., and my other PC is on a non uPNP firewalled site. And you want to insult me with a spineless/anti-social/casual jibe? I'll have you know I've done more for community in SOLO than most of those shooting their mouth off about modes.
And only a coward would part that disgusting shot and then promise never to return.
[video=youtube_share;vmZ1ZatTlHc]https://youtu.be/vmZ1ZatTlHc?t=82[/video]
We do know where this one stops though! When everyone realizes that PVP pew pew is for Role Play and PVP is really about groups fighting each other by collecting PVE trophies! Welcome to the Pit of Despair all!
We do know where this one stops though! When everyone realizes that PVP pew pew is for Role Play and PVP is really about groups fighting each other by collecting PVE trophies! Welcome to the Pit of Despair all!
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Thanks for writing almost exactly what I would have tried to write.
Only one addition about bounty hunting: it's broken when it comes to player bounty hunting - wanted status only in the system the crime happened, only for a week, KWS consuming insane amounts of power and taking way to long making it really useless against a CMDR. It's simply not worth the trouble if the player wants to make some money without getting wanted. The whole crime system makes absolutely no sense in my opinion - but that has nothing to do with the different modes. It makes no sense in Solo, Group and Open Mode.
You're more than welcome. And I agree with what you have to say about the crime system - I find it odd that when I'm undermining for PP merits I can wreck several dozen enemy ships in one system and not see even a hint of authority reaction...
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