Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III

Do you want a Open PvE

  • Yes, I want a Open PvE

    Votes: 54 51.4%
  • No, I don't want a Open PvE

    Votes: 49 46.7%
  • I want only Open PvE and PvP only in groups

    Votes: 2 1.9%

  • Total voters
    105
  • Poll closed .
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
The possibility for such play is already there - it just takes PvP oriented players to organise it among themselves.

With respect to affecting the BGS, there is only one shared galaxy state - what you seem to be proposing is a separate one just for PvP players.


Players who want to PvP can sign up for service - for a minor or major faction or even secret societies.
They can get lettres of marque that allows them to "pirate" special convoy ships. They can get special convoy cargo. They can get special kill-warrants for enemy CMDRs. And other things… The idea is, that those who want PvP can do something that will allow them to easily find other likeminded players and have a in-game reason for doing so.
They will make a good profit doing so. They will fight for a new type of influence or standing or something like that. What ever they fight for doesn't influence the normal BGS it's an addition to it that has no influence on the PvE part.

They won't have to organize it among themselves. There would be no need for two separated BGS or Mode restrictions.

As I wrote, just ideas.
 
As a few have said, it doesnt really guarantee youll actually see anyone, which is a key point in the "open being more dangerous" argument doesnt really hold water. Im not a network guy, so the logic escapes me, but from what I have read on here it has a lot to do with latency and pairing client together who could actually interact. I have noticed, however, that you are more likely to be instanced if the players are on your friends list.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -


I 100% agree that cyberbullying happens, I 100% disagree that it happens in a game environment. Facebook, myspace, all social media apps are rife with this stuff, which is why I dont use any of them. BUT - in those examples, it happens to REAL people about REAL things in their life.

The only way that I could see any action in a game... especially a game like this... as being a legitimate bully tactic, would be if I somehow was able to sniff your IP out of the internet (again im not an IT guy), and continuous pursue you, obtain your RL name and address, you know... crazy stuff. Im not that guy. Just a space pirate trying to make a living. :)


We will agree to disagree.. it happens in games as well. I have known people to hound another player until they deleted their character because of some perceived ingame wrong. People have left games because of the harassing actions of others.. ingame... so it clearly can happen in a game.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Actually, they're Irish. And I bet you can't name one Irish pirate. That's right. Because they never got caught. Hay!!! :D


actually the greatest pirate ever.. was Chinese.

You can say all you want about all the other nationalities of pirates but Ching Shih tops them all
 
Players who want to PvP can sign up for service - for a minor or major faction or even secret societies.
They can get lettres of marque that allows them to "pirate" special convoy ships. They can get special convoy cargo. They can get special kill-warrants for enemy CMDRs. And other things… The idea is, that those who want PvP can do something that will allow them to easily find other likeminded players and have a in-game reason for doing so.
They will make a good profit doing so. They will fight for a new type of influence or standing or something like that. What ever they fight for doesn't influence the normal BGS it's an addition to it that has no influence on the PvE part.

They won't have to organize it among themselves. There would be no need for two separated BGS or Mode restrictions.

As I wrote, just ideas.

Just asking really, but would those special convoys be NPCs or CMDRs, and would the CMDRs who have the kill warrants out on them be aware of the fact?

Honestly, the reluctance of (some) of the PvP community to even consider forming their own groups is strange. Why is it, what's wrong with organizing their play time so they have more fun of the kind they seek?

I'm pretty sure that a lot of PvP players do this anyway, whether it's through groups or the in game friends list... As you say, no need for any separation in the game at all, the tools are there to let players engage with those they want to (and avoid those they don't want to). I imagine plenty of players are using them already to do both of those things.
 
Im going to keep this positive and brief, seeing as how the mods have spoken and the deletehammer came down already:

When I play the game, I am playing the game, not the player. When I rob you in game, I am robbing your virtual persona in game... in no way are my actions designed to elicit an emotional response from the target.
They do, though. The result of me running into you, or running into an outright griefer and cyber bully, would be exactly the same: completely ruining my day.

Which is why I'm dead set against anything that would remove the modes, remove the ability to change modes at will, give any extrinsic advantage to Open (bonuses, extra content, whatever), or give penalties to the other modes.

And, incidentally, why I don't play in Open and, if I ever met a player like you, I would combat log. I don't care for the consequences, even being banned permanently from the game wouldn't be as bad for me as being robbed by a player pirate.




A bit like that. Maybe like a CQC and Power Play mix up - only that it happens in Open Mode (and private Mode), uses the standard space ships and could be based on the minor-factions (without affecting the PvE BGS).

Just some ideas. Don't expect me to come up with a bulletproof concept or implementation.

ED has one huge issue for consensual PvP if implemented differently than CQC: travel time. It takes far too much time to bring together interested players.

It's similar to how Battlegrounds in WoW only truly got popular after players became able to queue and teleport to them from anywhere. Hoofing halfway across the game world to then have to wait for a battle to start wasn't enjoyable.
 
Just asking really, but would those special convoys be NPCs or CMDRs, and would the CMDRs who have the kill warrants out on them be aware of the fact?

The special convoys would be CMDRs. The targets would be aware of it and it shouldn't be "Kill CMDR <name>" but "Kill x pirates/convoy/hunter ships of enemy faction". By signing up for a "faction" the CMDRs would know that they become targets and that they get targets (and profit).

I hoped that such a system would give those who want to PvP in-game reasons to do so and a motivation to engage in PvP with those who want to PvP while making it a bad choice to engage in PvP who don't want to.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
The special convoys would be CMDRs. The targets would be aware of it and it shouldn't be "Kill CMDR <name>" but "Kill x pirates/convoy/hunter ships of enemy faction". By signing up for a "faction" the CMDRs would know that they become targets and that they get targets (and profit).

I hoped that such a system would give those who want to PvP in-game reasons to do so and a motivation to engage in PvP with those who want to PvP while making it a bad choice to engage in PvP who don't want to.

Ah - it is clearer now - anyone affiliating with a faction would be a target in your proposal - not just those who signed up for the "PvP Experience"....

No thanks.
 
Ah - it is clearer now - anyone affiliating with a faction would be a target in your proposal - not just those who signed up for the "PvP Experience"....

No thanks.

It would have to be special factions/groups/organizations. Maybe just timed contacts.

My intention is not to force others into PvP, my intention is to separate PvP players from PvE players in Open Mode in a way that makes it fun for both "groups".
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
It would have to be special factions/groups/organizations. Maybe just timed contacts.

My intention is not to force others into PvP, my intention is to separate PvP players from PvE players in Open Mode in a way that makes it fun for both "groups".

By denying PvE players the ability to affiliate with a faction (unless they are prepared to be targets)?
 
They do, though. The result of me running into you, or running into an outright griefer and cyber bully, would be exactly the same: completely ruining my day.

Which is why I'm dead set against anything that would remove the modes, remove the ability to change modes at will, give any extrinsic advantage to Open (bonuses, extra content, whatever), or give penalties to the other modes.

And, incidentally, why I don't play in Open and, if I ever met a player like you, I would combat log. I don't care for the consequences, even being banned permanently from the game wouldn't be as bad for me as being robbed by a player pirate.

It would ruin your day... outside the game?

I dont even know what to say. You would rather be banned -never play the game again- than run into a pirate?

Even in a worse-case scenario, you lose about two hours of ̶w̶o̶r̶k̶ gameplay right? You get the rebuy cost of your ship (if you try to run and fail) and the cargo you may have. So losing that amount of time you spent playing the game, to a pirate, would ruin your day IRL? And if so, the possiblity of being banned (thankfully not the case) forever to avoid it would be an acceptable outcome?

That seems... somewhat drastic?
 
By denying PvE players the ability to affiliate with a faction (unless they are prepared to be targets)?

I believe he is talking about specific PvP factions, that would serve as a kind of opt-in for players wanting to PvP. Align with those and you are a target; align with any other faction and you aren't.

I don't think it would work well because of player density and travel time, but (as long as the PvP factions don't have any exclusive rewards) I don't have anything against that idea.
 
Just asking really, but would those special convoys be NPCs or CMDRs, and would the CMDRs who have the kill warrants out on them be aware of the fact?

Honestly, the reluctance of (some) of the PvP community to even consider forming their own groups is strange. Why is it, what's wrong with organizing their play time so they have more fun of the kind they seek?

I'm pretty sure that a lot of PvP players do this anyway, whether it's through groups or the in game friends list... As you say, no need for any separation in the game at all, the tools are there to let players engage with those they want to (and avoid those they don't want to). I imagine plenty of players are using them already to do both of those things.


I may be a tad cynical, but the reason for the reluctance is because they themselves don't want to be the target.. it isn't about PVP but Dominating.. there are pvpers in the game, but many of the most vocal are not true pvpers as they don't want the vs part.. they don't play to have a fair fight, they play to overwhelm players.. they wax eloquently about "risks" and how hard Open is and why it needs x,y, and z over Solo and group, yet they attack vastly weaker opponents and many times in groups vs a single victim... for them there is no risk, no real danger of them losing anything. Put them in a private group with only PVPers and suddenly they have risk... they are no longer an Apex predator.. and that they cannot stand.
 
The special convoys would be CMDRs. The targets would be aware of it and it shouldn't be "Kill CMDR <name>" but "Kill x pirates/convoy/hunter ships of enemy faction". By signing up for a "faction" the CMDRs would know that they become targets and that they get targets (and profit).

I hoped that such a system would give those who want to PvP in-game reasons to do so and a motivation to engage in PvP with those who want to PvP while making it a bad choice to engage in PvP who don't want to.

Seems like a good idea to me, as long as the people playing in open chose to play in open.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Seems like a good idea to me, as long as the people playing in open chose to play in open.

People also play in Open to play with other players, not necessarily versus them.

.... which is why an Open-PvE mode has been requested many times - the more PvP inclined assume that just because a player plays in Open then they are up for any form of interaction. While there is nothing to limit the form that a particular interaction may take in Open play, if it is an unpleasant enough experience it may simply discourage the targeted player from playing in Open again.
 
People also play in Open to play with other players, not necessarily versus them.

.... which is why an Open-PvE mode has been requested many times - the more PvP inclined assume that just because a player plays in Open then they are up for any form of interaction. While there is nothing to limit the form that a particular interaction may take in Open play, if it is an unpleasant enough experience it may simply discourage the targeted player from playing in Open again.

Ok, so what do you recommend I do? I enjoy playing as a pirate. Thats why I bought the game, and thats why I play in open mode. Its why I purchased the pirate paintjobs for my ships.

The modes are fine as-is.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Ok, so what do you recommend I do? I enjoy playing as a pirate. Thats why I bought the game, and thats why I play in open mode. Its why I purchased the pirate paintjobs for my ships.

The modes are fine as-is.

I expect that you will play as you like - if you can find suitable targets.

.... also, while the main roles are stated in the advertising for the game, nowhere does it mention that any of them require to be carried out against other players - that's a choice that each player makes.
 
Ok, so what do you recommend I do? I enjoy playing as a pirate. Thats why I bought the game, and thats why I play in open mode. Its why I purchased the pirate paintjobs for my ships.

The modes are fine as-is.

Understand that the person you are pirating may not necessarily be willing or prepared to be your content and be more "gentlemanly" about it. If they run, strip their shield and half the hull and leave it at that rather than outright destroy them. After all - what's a kill but less sauce for your goose, and you get nothing from it in truth. You've still proved your superior skills (on that occasion) and shown mercy. The next time you meet, you might get a different response.

Just a suggestion. <shrugs>
 
It would ruin your day... outside the game?
Yep. Which is why I will never allow it. I absolutely hate player conflict, never liked it, and I've grown more picky with age.
(Do keep in mind that fully consensual PvP isn't player conflict. Consensual PvP is more akin to a friendly sparring match, and I play PvP of that kind fairly often.)

Also why, nowadays, if in a game there is any chance of a player attacking me without my consent, no matter how small that chance, I either take all measures needed to make that chance effectively zero or else stop playing that game altogether. Or, more likely — because I never spend any money in a game without fully researching all about how PvP works in it — I don't even start playing.

I dont even know what to say. You would rather be banned -never play the game again- than run into a pirate?
I have another specific, and stronger, issue with piracy. I don't differentiate between stealing in the real world and in game. Well, I know the difference on an intellectual level, but the emotions it causes in me are the same, to the point I would need time to calm down in order to meet a player pirate face to face without punching him or her.

So, yeah, I would rather be banned than allow a player pirate to take anything from me. After all, when someone does manage to steal anything from me in a game, my usual response is to abandon that game and never return; happened a few times. Incidentally, it's why I was one of the players lobbying for the self-destruct option to also completely destroy the ship's cargo, back when the game was still being developed; it should offer me a way to prevent others from stealing from me even if everything else goes wrong.

Even in a worse-case scenario, you lose about two hours of ̶w̶o̶r̶k̶ gameplay right? You get the rebuy cost of your ship (if you try to run and fail) and the cargo you may have. So losing that amount of time you spent playing the game, to a pirate, would ruin your day IRL?
It's not the time and effort lost. It's the fact I would have been the target of a player that want a quick fix and doesn't care if he will ruin the game for someone else in pursuing that fix.

If the same situation happened, but with a NPC being the attacker, no harm no foul. As the NPC is a non-sentient being, it would just be a part of the game. But the attack being done by a player changes everything.

Also: worst case scenario, also known as not having enough credits for the buyback and being sent back to the free sidey, might mean losing months of gameplay.

And if so, the possiblity of being banned (thankfully not the case) forever to avoid it would be an acceptable outcome?

That seems... somewhat drastic?

When choosing between a situation that would make me quit the game in disgust (being robbed by a pirate), and another one that might allow me to keep playing (combat logging), well, the choice is clear for me.

Besides, you know the devs promised, from early on, that players would be freely able to choose who they would allow to meet them and who they would exclude, and would also be allowed to freely change that choice as often and as much as they wanted, right?

In other words, as long as the devs keep the early promises, meeting the kinds of player I won't play with shouldn't be an issue for me in ED. The game allows me to basically exclude any and everyone that would hinder my experience.
 
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom