Elite:Dangerous Visuals

[ak-73]

Hi, first post, be gentle please.

I would like to debate the visuals of Eliteangerous.

While certainly nicely looking, they're just not quite right for me. If you compare them to other space games, these kinda look samey because the engine delivers the same kinda flat spaceship surfaces.

If you go all the way back to the Traveller RPG (on which iirc correctly Elite was partially based), spaceship surfaces are highly reflective. Don't recreate Star Wars visuals all over again for the umpteenth time. We have all seen that.

Have a look at the illustrations in the Elite handbook. What we need is more Chrome. The surfaces of the spaceships need to glitter in the light of a Red Dwarf. The light of a near missle miss moving across the surface of a ship. The light of a nearby explosions bouncing off a surface of a ship nearly blinding you. There needs to be lots glare, at times even making hitting enemy ships hard. Polarized cockpit glass should be an upgrade.

What is right in the demos is the darkness, the shadowing. Combined with the reflective surfaces and the glare it would provide stunning contrast. Elite would be standing out from other space games.

Plus among the shadowing and the glare it would be hard for players to see the enemy spaceship in its full glory all at once. This is good. This makes players curious. Do you remember how curious you have been to see an Asp for the first time back then? Trying to see it from all angles?


tl;dr = To make Elite stand out visually (and be true to its classic sci-fi roots), the game needs highly reflective surfaces and the dark shadows of space contrasting each other severely. Visibility should play a factor in combat.


Alex

 

[The Space Pirate]

Well, we haven't really seen that many planetary surfaces yet to make any judgement.

 

[Geraldine]

Hi Alex
Firstly, welcome to the Frontier Forum

Now to your points on visuals, although David has posted a few videos, I guess he will be tweaking the look of the whole game during the development phase. Now, how ships look is very much a matter of personal taste and this is where the Design Decision Forum (DDF) can play a role. I am only guessing here you understand, but I would think the dev team may show the DDF a whole range of different looks for the ships and other things in the game and ask them their views.

Personally, I like lots of visual styles, from flat weathered paintwork upto nice shiny chrome ships. The worst thing for me would be that all the ships would look similar. Customisation would be a cool thing to have to as long as it is tastefully done, but again what I think of what is "tastefully done" may differ from what you or others think.

I predict this will be a hot topic in the future on the DDF and all over the forum down the line. In the meantime feel free to share your thoughts.

 

[Stoo]

I would think that there is a fine line between what is "realistic" and what is "right for the general gaming experience". With having to deal with a lot of reflections/refractions/glares/glows etc it could be that your average gaming rig might not cope too well.... flatter visuals in a sense may render faster and give a faster gaming feel as well as not alienate gamers in to thinking they can't see anything on screen until the last minute when a panel on a ship flares....

All valid though, a realistic light sourcing and rendering engine would be awesome but it might not be in the best interest of compatibility with all the different configurations of PC's out there or different tastes of how the game should look.

A mix between, or even better a configurable amount of realism would be great

 

[Spacegamer]

If you go all the way back to the Traveller RPG (on which iirc correctly Elite was partially based), spaceship surfaces are highly reflective. Don't recreate Star Wars visuals all over again for the umpteenth time. We have all seen that.

IIRC the ships in Traveller were colorful and also had the same some what used look as Starwars.
I for myself like the used battered look, the ship can start off looking new at the start of the game but should aged over time and even faster when they start going into atmospheres.

One thing I am not in favor of is the gun metal colored look as most of the modern games have done this to death and has become some what cliched same as the PEW PEW laser sound.

 

[ak-73]

I agree that there should be a range of looks. Including rusty old cans.

Im just saying: the project should avoid the standard sci-fi look at all costs. There is nothing to explore there anymore visually. I would perhaps layer it by sophistication: rusty metal for cheap second-handers, metal/chrome for most regular ships and a sleek matte finish for high-enders or alien ships. Elite, as well as Traveller RPG, originate from an era of classic sci-fi where space-flight triggered sort of a pioneering spirit. Conquering space. Having to deal with imperfect technology and all that. Unpainted hulls fit into that quite nicely.

Plus a dazzling array of lighting and shadowing effects, while computational expensive can really make a difference. I have been experimenting with that some years ago and while I am not a top-notch game programmer nor a visual artist, I found results to be fairly pleasing. Lighting matters. Going strong on bloom effects is good. You're in space, sunlight isnt filtered by atmosphere. The side of venus on which the sun shines is hot, the other side is cold. Let the sunside also be bright and the dark side be really dark. Let things glitter.

You can also give a subtle glittering to the starfield. If you multliply it subtly with a noise texture, it stops being static. The stars around you will also glitter. Even the hi-res but static starfields of other games do look cheap in comparison, trust me, I tried it.

If you guys don't believe me, reread The Dark Wheel. I submit the following as evidence. [And I don't even bring up the end fight near the sun.]

'[...] The catalogue was endless. Boa class cruisers; Pythons; the bounty hunters' favourite, the Fer-de- lance, packed out with weapons, and no doubt decked out inside like a palace; landing craft called Worms;
Mambas; Sidewinders . . . large craft and small, all winking brightly and reflecting sunlight in brilliant blue- grey sheens.
[...]
But there are ghosts there. The ghosts of the early ships that went in to Faraway, and didn't come out again.
Ghosts . . .
And shadows.
The shadow of a snake. A Cobra . . . Rising over them . . .
[...]
The Coriolis station span gently before them, bright with sunlight, casting its shadow on the patchy grey and yellow of the huge world below. Several ships were tethered to buoys close by. They looked safe enough. Lights flashed on the Station. Everything gleamed, everything welcomed.
[...]
He watched as the bright eyes slid forward, out of the space port. Behind the eyes came the bulky shape of the ship to which they were attached. Behind the ship came light, bright light, a gleaming yellow beam that cast the shadow of the ship across the Nemesis . . .
The shadow of a snake.
The Cobra!'

Light and shadow. That's the key to the beauty of space in our minds. I strongly believe that.


Alex

 

[Slawkenbergius]

@ak-73: Many of those ideas sound interesting, and I definitely agree about contrast and how important light and shadow are to making compelling space environments. The dark side of the moon should be really, really dark. Also stark shadows on space stations, etc. a la 2001.

If you had any footage you could share of your twinkling star-field, and other work, I'm sure we'd all love to see it. It sounds cool.

I'd also love to see a more eclectic variety of design for the ships than in current films and games (though I must admit, I've not played too many space games recently). Some ships should be dull, boxy and functional (Ford Transit), others elegant with nice detailing (vintage Aston Martin). I'd like to see Elite IV harking back to some vibrant 60s and 70s sci-fi ship designs, while also remaining true to the originals.

I do like some of the darker designs already shown in the concept art, like in the silent_station wallpaper. In fact, my only minor gripe with what's been shown so far is that the Anaconda looks a bit too 'military' for my liking, and that could probably be rectified with a bit of a repaint, maybe a couple of go-faster stripes down the side. I think that most ships should have tinges of colour to the paint-job, even if subtle.

A chrome Merlin would also look awesome.
http://www.jades.org/shiprevs/merlin.htm

 

[Kipper]

I do rather think that the ships in the final game will take on a much different appearance to the ones we've seen in the tech demos. There's lots of movement and thrusters and vents for a start, which were mentioned but not seen as yet.

What I like about Elite ships is symmetry and form. Spaceships don't have to be beautiful, they don't have to be balanced or aerodynamic to work in space like our cars or planes do on Earth... but I still like that they are.

The way I look at is that Ferrari and Aston Martin cars don't have to be made to look like they do - they are pretty efficient with the airflow, but I'd bet they could be made more so if looks were not a factor at all.... But they are - those cars are designed to look great as well as be great pieces of engineering, so why wouldn't future spaceship companies design ships that people wanted to own? Especially if there was competition with other companies to sell your ships.... You'd want practicality and looks, right?

 

[Slawkenbergius]

The way I look at is that Ferrari and Aston Martin cars don't have to be made to look like they do - they are pretty efficient with the airflow, but I'd bet they could be made more so if looks were not a factor at all.... But they are - those cars are designed to look great as well as be great pieces of engineering, so why wouldn't future spaceship companies design ships that people wanted to own? Especially if there was competition with other companies to sell your ships.... You'd want practicality and looks, right?

My thoughts exactly, though you still need your ugly but reliable and affordable Ford Transits too! Also, unlike cars, there are fewer design constraints on the shape of spacecraft, so higher-end companies would have more freedom to create iconic profiles.

I wouldn't like to see anything quite as contrived as the Vanduul fighter in Star Citizen though. It's a cool design, but somehow wrong.

http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/Scythe

 

[ak-73]

@Stoo: Glare on ship hulls can be fairly inexpensive. It can be rendered as a cheap billboard basically. All you need is to calculate where the glare billboard should be placed and with what intensity.

That fighter would be nice for alien ships. They can be outrageous in design to stress the alien factor. For human ships, I think classic sci-fi is the way to go. We have never had a space game with classic sci-fi look&feel, except for Elite.

Alex

 

[Cosmo Bozo]

My thoughts exactly, though you still need your ugly but reliable and affordable Ford Transits too! Also, unlike cars, there are fewer design constraints on the shape of spacecraft, so higher-end companies would have more freedom to create iconic profiles.

I wouldn't like to see anything quite as contrived as the Vanduul fighter in Star Citizen though. It's a cool design, but somehow wrong.

http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/Scythe

I think in a "realistic" galaxy there would be few designs like that star citizen one...it would be a waste of expensive materials and potential cargo space..if a ship like that were built I'd imagine it would be expensive for what it is....like a ferrari or aston I suppose (though that one is more the lamborghini countach of space OTT brash and tasteless)
Room for lots of variety though

 

[Capt. Hook]

I wonder if ship design choices or more likely tweaks to designs will be up for discussion at that 300£ tier forum dodah.

For my money I would like to see a more gritty, weathered look to the ships, space weathered obv

I think i heard on one of the dev videos that the current ships seen are still work in progress. Hopefully they can balance cool looking ships without killing gameplay and frying user's pcs etc

 

[Dr Wookie]

You can also give a subtle glittering to the starfield. If you multliply it subtly with a noise texture, it stops being static. The stars around you will also glitter. Even the hi-res but static starfields of other games do look cheap in comparison, trust me, I tried it.

Stars only twinkle when looked at through an atmosphere, due to the movements of little pockets of air/gas called atmospheric cells. The appear to be smaller than these cells, and the twinkling is caused by different cells moving in front of the star, with slightly different properties. The planets appear to be much larger than individual cells, so they don't twinkle.

So in space. stars don't twinkle.

As for the ship designs, I'm all for a mixed bag... a lot of chrome could be very tacky !

 

[Sir.Tj]

The reason why I preferenced FFE to FE was the more gritty realistic feel to the game.

A mixture of clean and dirty ships would be good especially if where you had been reflected that. So if you landed on Mars you would have a lot of Martian dust over your ship.

 

[Abysinth]

I wonder how hard it is to allow players (commanders?) to upload an image and have it plastered to the outside of your ship?

Now, I'm not suggesting floral wallpaper but if this were to enable us to upload a ship name or emblem. After all, we'll all get KS decals...

 

[Capt. Hook]

I wonder how hard it is to allow players (commanders?) to upload an image and have it plastered to the outside of your ship?

Now, I'm not suggesting floral wallpaper but if this were to enable us to upload a ship name or emblem. After all, we'll all get KS decals...

I think for the moment its official decals only or vanilla versions of ships. Perhaps the decal choice list will grow as vanity purchase items down the road?

 

[Abysinth]

I think for the moment its official decals only or vanilla versions of ships. Perhaps the decal choice list will grow as vanity purchase items down the road?

I agree, but if they can do it with one, I hope it won't be too hard to do it with more than one, even if there are limited places on the ships to place them.

 

[The Space Pirate]

Not all of the ships are gleaming chrome: look at the concept art of the Viper Mk 3 - it's clearly got some weathering to it.

It would be great if they started off gleaming when new and gain weathering as time goes on - with the option to have it 'rebuffed', for a fee of course. Can you imagine a brand new Imperial Courier?

 

[Zplintz]

I would prefer simpler (lower polygon) ships than anything overly complicated. IMO Eve ruin a lot of their ship designs by taking a good basic shape and over doing the details.

Simpler (faster/smoother) graphics is always better than busy/laggy graphics.

 

[Cmdr Sharky]

I wonder how hard it is to allow players (commanders?) to upload an image and have it plastered to the outside of your ship?

That's asking for trouble!