Combat Loggers... how many are there!!!! What kind of punishment do they receive and when?

[StuF]

Comments like this and this type of attitude are damaging to the longevity of Elite, as a community we should be rejecting cheaters not giving in to it and accepting it. Cheaters in game, and indeed in most other games are shunned and banned not excused. Try openly cheating in a game of BF whilst streaming and see how long you last before you are banned from the server. It is only a game but its not on, it wrecks the spirit of the game when people cheat and its doubly poor when the people doing it are actually affiliated to the game makers.

Combat logging isnt cheating though - not until Elite Dangerous amend their rules
So no players cannot get banned, warned anything until that happens

 

[{SAS}Stalker]

Combat logging isnt cheating though - not until Elite Dangerous amend their rules
So no players cannot get banned, warned anything until that happens

Semantics, Its been stated by the devs they consider it a bannable exploit (shadow banned) and have requested people report them. By definition that is cheating

 

[StuF]

Semantics, Its been stated by the devs they consider it a bannable exploit (shadow banned). By definition that is cheating

The devs can say whatever they want - they cannot deny a player access to the whole game for braking an unwritten rule
ED Terms Of Service do not mention "Combat Logging" so no punititave punishments can be applied or they would end up in court for denying consumer rights
Most players dont visit the forums and have not the slightest idea what "combat logging" is or that it is frowned upon

Go back to page 12 and have a read - its all quite clear and well written

 

[Robert Maynard]

Combat logging isnt cheating though - not until Elite Dangerous amend their rules
So no players cannot get banned, warned anything until that happens

In the EULA, Section 4, it states:

"4.4 You may not use the Game or any Online Features in a manner that could damage, disable, impair, overburden or compromise our systems or security or interfere with the experience of other users of the Game or any Online Feature."

As users who Combat Log "interfere with the experience of other users of the Game", the act of Combat Logging is therefore proscribed by the EULA.

 

[{SAS}Stalker]

Hello Commanders!

This is a quick update to let you guys know what we’re looking at regarding the issue of “combat logging”.

For clarity’s sake, “combat logging” is when a Commander ungracefully exits the game (e.g. using ALT + F4 then shutting down the game process) to avoid defeat, destruction and damage.

Commanders might use this exploit the moment they are interdicted or the moment before they are about to be destroyed.

Although this is flagged primarily as a multiplayer concern, the issues (and solutions) apply equally to the single player game.

First things first: we do consider this an undesirable exploit. It’s not “part of the game”.

Because we don’t have an all powerful server running the moment-to-moment game play simulation, there is no infallible arbiter to take control of a player’s ship when they ungracefully exit.

So what we’re doing is logging telemetry that will help us detect when this exploit is explicitly being used.

Right now, all we’re doing (and have already started doing) is looking at and implementing methods of collecting and analysing data.

At some point, however, we will start to take action against Commanders using this exploit. I can only suggest that you should avoid using this exploit if you want to avoid any penalties issued for its use. I'll just repeat: please avoid combat logging - we're taking this issue very seriously.

On a related, but separate track, we’re looking at introducing benefits to Commanders that persevere and stick it out through dangerous encounters, as well as general credit costs and rewards balancing.

I’m not quite ready to talk about these in more detail just now. Obviously though, they can never counter the potential costs of ship destruction, but we want to look at a range of disincentives and incentives both to counter this issue.

I hope this helps clarify our position a little.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=105778&p=1642728&viewfull=1#post1642728

That post was a year ago, its time they started to take the action that they stated that they would.

Also stop excusing something that is a real issue in ED, its damaging to the game as a whole.

In the EULA, Section 4, it states:

"4.4 You may not use the Game or any Online Features in a manner that could damage, disable, impair, overburden or compromise our systems or security or interfere with the experience of other users of the Game or any Online Feature."

As users who Combat Log "interfere with the experience of other users of the Game", the act of Combat Logging is therefore proscribed by the EULA.

Thanks Robert for taking the time to find that, appreciated.

 

[babelfisch]

Comments like this and this type of attitude are damaging to the longevity of Elite, as a community we should be rejecting cheaters not giving in to it and accepting it. Cheaters in game should be shunned and banned like they are in other games, not excused. Try openly cheating in a game of BF whilst streaming and see how long you last before you are banned from the server.

It is only a game but its not on, it wrecks the spirit of the game when people cheat and its doubly poor when the people doing it are actually affiliated to the game makers.

Actually it's the other way around. A small community forcing their playstyle on others is damaging the longevity of Elite. Beeing a new player and getting attacked by a wing of Vultures is damaging the longevity. If said player gets attacked again and chooses to leave the game instead of beeing a victim to somone with fantasies of omnipotence, only to get banned, well that's exactly what will damage the longevity of Elite.

Griefing another player is not in the spirit of the game, if someone doesn't want to play with you there is no way to force him. "PvP should be rare and meaningful" is in the spirit of the game...

And please stop calling exiting the game a cheat (regardless if MB agrees with you), it's a build in function of Windows which applies to all applications.

 

[Siobhan]

As users who Combat Log "interfere with the experience of other users of the Game", the act of Combat Logging is therefore proscribed by the EULA.

By that definition, interdiction is a bannable exploit, as is any kind of aggressive interaction.

 

[{SAS}Stalker]

Actually it's the other way around. A small community forcing their playstyle on others is damaging the longevity of Elite. Beeing a new player and getting attacked by a wing of Vultures is damaging the longevity. If said player gets attacked again and chooses to leave the game instead of beeing a victim to somone with fantasies of omnipotence, only to get banned, well that's exactly what will damage the longevity of Elite.

Griefing another player is not in the spirit of the game, if someone doesn't want to play with you there is no way to force him. "PvP should be rare and meaningful" is in the spirit of the game...

And please stop calling exiting the game a cheat (regardless if MB agrees with you), it's a build in function of Windows which applies to all applications.

Then deal with that issue in its own entirety, the fact that one issue is present doesn't permit the use of a stated exploit. Where do we draw the line? Should we permit sheild hacks because it might stop a new player from being attacked.

They are two separate issues and one does not excuse the other.

You are talking nonsense, running 3rd party software (cheat engine) to read and alter the memory of the game is a windows feature but it's still against the EULA of the game.

 

[babelfisch]

In the EULA, Section 4, it states:

"4.4 You may not use the Game or any Online Features in a manner that could damage, disable, impair, overburden or compromise our systems or security or interfere with the experience of other users of the Game or any Online Feature."

As users who Combat Log "interfere with the experience of other users of the Game", the act of Combat Logging is therefore proscribed by the EULA.

That's funny because forcing me to fight you is also interfering with my experience of the game. Quitting an application is something that cannot be proscribed by any EULA.

 

[{SAS}Stalker]

That's funny because forcing me to fight you is also interfering with my experience of the game.

Its not forcing you to do anything, you can high wake. Its part of the game that you bought, assuming there wasn't a "non combat" version of ED.

I say again, stop defending the use of exploits its damaging.

 

[babelfisch]

Then deal with that issue in its own entirety, the fact that one issue is present doesn't permit the use of a stated exploit. Where do we draw the line? Should we permit sheild hacks because it might stop a new player from being attacked.

They are two separate issues and one does not excuse the other.

You are talking nonsense, running 3rd party software (cheat engine) to read and alter the memory of the game is a windows feature but it's still against the EULA of the game.

I already gave you a perfect solution for your issue with people exiting the game 3 pages ago: Create a private group, invite your PvP friends and kick everyone who doesn't play by your rules.

Reading and altering memory is not the same like quitting an application and I don't need to use a 3rd party software to quit the game.

 

[{SAS}Stalker]

I already gave you a perfect solution for your issue with people exiting the game 3 pages ago: Create a private group, invite your PvP friends and kick everyone who doesn't play by your rules.

Reading and altering memory is not the same like quitting an application and I don't need to use a 3rd party software to quit the game.

stop excusing the use of exploits!

 

[Siobhan]

Its not forcing you to do anything, you can high wake. Its part of the game that you bought, assuming there wasn't a "non combat" version of ED.

I say again, stop defending the use of exploits its damaging.

It's still interfering with the victim's experience of the game, and therefore against the EULA

 

[babelfisch]

stop excusing the use of exploits!

First you want to force me to fight you and now you want to force me to stop writing my opinion

 

[{SAS}Stalker]

I'll take a self imposed time out from the thread, I've made my point and linked to where the devs have made their stance known and had a moderator link to the relevant EULA.

Its disappointing however to see even one person who has an interest in this game openly excuse the use of cheating and its not something I have ever really experienced in over a decade of MP gaming, they are usually venomously opposed.

Just remember that excusing one exploit excuses them all, there is no cherry picking.

Fly safe, I guess!

 

[Ari Ben Zayn]

As users who Combat Log "interfere with the experience of other users of the Game", the act of Combat Logging is therefore proscribed by the EULA.

That's as gigantic a can of worms I've ever seen you just opened there. Interfering with the experience of other users in the game. Oh my.

 

[babelfisch]

I'll take a self imposed time out from the thread, I've made my point and linked to where the devs have made their stance known and had a moderator link to the relevant EULA.

Since we already went full circle several times without reaching a consensus I agree that there isn't much reason to discuss this further.

Its disappointing however to see even one person who has an interest in this game openly excuse the use of cheating and its not something I have ever really experienced in over a decade of MP gaming, they are usually venomously opposed.

Just remember that excusing one exploit excuses them all, there is no cherry picking.

Fly safe, I guess!

One last comment: I played MP games for over ten years as well (both casual and semi professional) and I have never experienced that quitting a game was considered an exploit. When my team forced our enemies to leave the server because they had no chance of winning anymore we always gave us a pat on the back instead of reporting them to the league administration.

 

[defekt]

Seal slips away from seal clubbers by any means necessary. Shocker, what.

Dropping your connection in a MP game to avoid no-win scenarios is a tactic as old as the hills (minus the time between said hills' creation and the advent of internet MP gaming) and FD have already stated that they don't have the necessary infrastructure to retain a player's presence after they've dropped connection.

All FD can do is try to devise a system that attempts to identify what was an intentional connection drop and what wasn't. (Even building up a profile of connection loss for each player isn't reliable because of the inherant problems with P2P meaning that disconnections are most likely when two or more Humans are involved, so you can't rely on that metric either.) Best of luck with that one, BTW. The inherent unreliability of such a system is the most likely reason why one hasn't been put in place already.

Bottom line is this: FD cut corners by opting for a P2P networking solution, a solution that is pretty much powerless to build a reliable 'combat logging' detection system upon.

 

[Ari Ben Zayn]

There's plenty of IP-harvesting scripts out there that allow people to insta-block via firewalls at a buttons press. No need to "combatlog" :')

 

[Jukelo]

By that definition, interdiction is a bannable exploit, as is any kind of aggressive interaction.

Aggressive interactions are part of the normal, expected game experience, Frontier advertises them on the store page and explicitely provided tools for them. When you take part in them you are not interfering with the experience of other users since they agreed to consider these interactions part of their experience when they bought the game. That would be like claiming being forced to pay other players in Monopoly when you stop on their streets is interfering with your experience.

Combat logging however is completely outside the bounds of the normal and expected experience. Combat logging is effectively playing Monopoly and refusing to end your turn on any other player's property regardless of what the die says.