Except that I don't care about nor want exploding ships... I want cargo...
Simple Fix to Combat Logging
- Thread starter Garbarrage
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Except that I don't care about nor want exploding ships... I want cargo...
oh I agree totally but while there is such a marked imbalance between what the attacker and his victim stand to lose there will be a strong temptation for Combat logging.
Lets look at real world piracy for a second, where pirates have very unsophisticated vessels, easily fought off by a lightly armed ship with a willing crew. its almost the exact opposite of ED piracy, we cant really prevent someone with a superb combat ship turning to piracy and ''griefing'' the poorly armed merchant. What we maybe able to do, as we do with paying bounties, get the game to take the strain. It might just be more fun for everyone and the urge to CL would be much reduced.
As long as cargo is accessible...
You wouldn't be getting my cargo even if I were playing in open, I'm 2 fast 4 U
.-. I don't know, I tend to have no problem chasing down things when I pirate in my Clipper.
The only problem is shooting out drives cause the victim ship to drift and it's a disaster trying to extract cargo since it's all over the place...
oh well a Clipper, don't think my Cutter is very impressed with that. Shame to blow up such a pretty ship though, maybe if you were to drop all your cargo and start running
oh well a Clipper, don't think my Cutter is very impressed with that. Shame to blow up such a pretty ship though, maybe if you were to drop all your cargo and start running
Oh, I own a Cutter, outfitted for Piracy. I fly the Clipper because it's my second favorite ship next to the Courier, since large targets tend to combat log without a second thought.
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I can feel your pain
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Made a reply to it, as long as I can extract cargo from it, I'm happy.
When my connection is being a pain, any mode is unfun for me, I'm being knocked offline every few minutes, so what's the point?
And we have pages of people saying there are no effects from people combat logging, it doesn't hurt anyone, it should be allowed, they only do it because they didn't want to engage in PvP in the first place. First off, it does hurt others, specifically the person you logged on directly is effected, and it can also have impacts on the BGS depending on the situation. Second, FD said it isn't allowed, there is a graceful exit you can use, log out via the menu options, that's it, and that rule is precisely because it DOES have a negative impact on other players directly as well as possible impacts on the BGS. Third, if you don't want to be engaged in PvP, don't play in Open, simple as that, FD gives you that option for a reason. Not to mention that it does seem the majority of the combat loggers aren't actually defenseless traders who are getting ganked, it appears they are people who engaged in PvP and realized that they aren't going to win and so they combat log to avoid the cost of their mistake.
The crime and punishment system ingame being revamped won't change combat logging one bit, it has nothing to do with it, anyone using that as an excuse is just using it as an excuse, they'll continue to combat log regardless. Direct punishment is the only thing FD can do that will possibly have an effect on people combat logging. Setting them to Solo mode only after they've done it X times for a week, no Group or Open options given. If they continue to do it after that week's punishement, make their Solo time a full month, no Group/Open options given. If they STILL continue to do it after that, remove Group and Open from their options permanently, they are obviously never going to play well with others, so no one should be subjected to their again. They can still play the game, they just can't ruin other people's experience in the game again, they've lost the right to play with others by their own actions, after repeated attempts to get them to stop doing it.
Or conversely, the Shadowban bit, remove all options except Shadow, which is an Open world populated only by others who've broken the rules, same time setup, a week, a month, and then permanently for people who refuse to follow the rules. Personally, I think the Solo option is better, as the people who combat log are doing it against other players and will continue to do it against other players, so remove that from them.
Don't worry I'll stay out of open, can't afford to entertain pirates atm (tried to park my Cutter inside a planet, lost both ship and cargo, really wish FD would do something about that. Nothing worse than being griefed by unyielding chunks of rock...)
As someone who's been under attack, as a trader, by people after an easy kill... the chance of rescue arriving to help, or at least my killer getting a decent punishment, would have, in every occurrence, have prevented me from waiting the 15 seconds to log out. I don't back out on fair fights, I don't back out when someone talks to me, and I don't back out when I start the fight. Other than that... well, there's always some butthead who has decided that he wants to go after those who cannot defend themselves. They want to shoot fish in a barrel. Exiting after the 15 seconds and/or combat logging is, right now, the only way to say "I refuse to be a fish in a barrel" while still enjoying the open experience.
No it wouldn't, or you wouldn't do it now, you play in Open, you accepted unsolicited PvP by default but you said it yourself, you refuse to be a fish in a barrel, which won't change one bit, you'll still be a fish in a barrel.
People who are asking for a "fix" to combat logging, want the target to be, optimally, dead. Because they can't 'win' if the mark does not die. How that happens, and who pays or is punished for it (must be the victim) is of lesser consequence. The great irony here, is the same people who are on one side of the argument (combat logging is evil) may combat log if the shoe is on the other appendage. I'm sure people will protest that. But i'm unlikely to be wrong for all occurrences.
Of course if the goal is the cargo; then the mark exploding is not optimal - combat logging is depriving one of income, rather than depriving one of "winning" (because that's actually a commander who gets the point and doesn't just spew vitriol and make a fast exit).
Both are symptoms of an imbalance problem; we both know crime and punishment is something Frontier have no real idea of how to manage - combat logging happens because there's no real consequence; however to introduce consequence, means anyone genuinely dropping out (internet connect failure, power outage, hardware failures) faces consequences. As do traders.
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I don't agree that such purposeful forced action as combat-logging is acceptable, because it's such a simple way to avoid consequence; but I'm not everyone else, and I'm not about to speak for others. I can see genuine reasons why it might happen.
Rather than address the symptom, I'd like frontier to look at the reasons. Because that, to me at least, seems much more logical and has the best hope of actually partly solving it - it's impossible to prevent; regardless of what frontier do. And super barbaric reaction will just drive yet more people into solo/ pg.
This is my understanding of the situation too. Combat logging (or something similar) happens in most if not all multiplayer games to some extent, but judging by the comments on this forum it seems to be a particular problem in ED - and we need to ask why. At a fundamental level, I have to suggest that it is a symptom of a general lack of respect between players. I for one wouldn't consider such actions as remotely appropriate in other games I've played - and not because of possible penalties but because I actually care about how other players see me. Clearly at least part of the blame for this lies with a poorly-designed game mechanic which encourages random unevenly-balanced encounters between players who may never meet again, but I can't help feeling that the attitudes expressed by some open 'regulars' on this forum have also played a part. I'll not provide specific examples (it would be unfair to cherry-pick, and I see no reason to assume that those commenting are by any means to worst offenders), but when one sees statements to the effect that any newcomer getting 'ganked' or harassed in open deserves what they get for playing there in the first place, it isn't difficult to come to the conclusion that respect - and consideration - is lacking. Maybe FD can come up with something to deal with the worst offenders, but ultimately if the open player base wants a better environment - one where people don't combat-log out of self-respect, and respect for others (as I've seen in other games) - they need to look at broader behavioural issues, rather than venting yet again on the same subject while ignoring the root causes.
It would prevent it. I've been in fights I've lost, in PvP. Fights where the guy who interdicted me actually communicated, and gave some indication he realised, y'know, there's another person on the other end of those pixels. Not an NPC there to make someone's micropenis feel bigger.
I really, really love the part with a shadow server filled only by combat loggers; in my opinion it's one of the best ways for combat loggers to learn first hand what is wrong with combat log.
Thank you for the idea good sir, have a +1 rep.
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The same is true for people who go to open knowing that they'll encounter combat loggers and then complain on the forums. The only difference is that combat logging is considered an exploit, but it still sounds like "mommy, they don't want to play with me" in my opinion.
Mobius isn't a solution. It lacks official support and has a member cap. 95% of all Elite players don't know that Mobius exists because they don't visit the forum. They most likely don't even know that they are combat logging.
You'll agree with me that the same is true for people going sidey clubbing in the starter systems. I think we should distinguish between someone who isn't interested in PvP and has no time for beeing someones toy and someone who attacks others and leaves the game as soon as he realises that he is going to lose. You may argue that both are using an exploit but there is still a difference in morality.
Many online games don't have the problem with combat logging because the players don't care if someone leaves the game. That's true for most FPS games where everybody can join and leave as they want and sport games where you'll get an automatic win if someone leaves the game. It's annoying when your opponent leaves because in the end you want to play the game against someone but you still get rewarded.
Then there are MMOs where your character remains on the server which is something you can't achieve in the P2P environment ED uses.
If you search for combat logging you'll notice that there are only three games where combat logging seems to be a problem, DayZ, Minecraft and Elite Dangerous. DayZ and Minecraft don't offer a solution for combat logging, the issue is ignored by the Devs and the community handles the problem via server plugins and admins. While I understand that many PvP players want FDEV to fix the problem for them (and I agree with them as long as the solution doesn't create new problems) I still think that the best short term solution would be to go the same way like DayZ/Minecraft by handling the problem ourselves. We just need to create a private group with a PvP code of honor - everyone who doesn't play by the rules gets kicked:
Open: PvP / combat logging
Mobius: No PvP / no combat logging
Suibom: PvP / no combat logging
Solo: No PvP / no combat logging
While I agree that this doesn't solve the problem of combat logging in open and FDEV should continue to work on a solution it would at least provide a solution for those who are complaining continuously.
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Actually the list is quite a bit bigger but not everybody uses the same terms, capcom just reset a bunch of peoples ladder characters on SF5 for doing the same thing, one of the best moves capcom have ever made actually. Its a problem in any p2p architecture game that has stakes on win/loss, even ones without still have some people that do it. Even planetside has people who instant quit/Alt F4 to preserve their stats (like manipulated stats mean anything).
Your overall post I agree with, though Minecraft and DayZ are both run on servers and have admins that can ban people for this (enforcement) ED is the only game I can think of so far that does literally nothing about it, I've always held since the very first post came up about it that the #1 problem is they don't enforce it, ban some people, make it known, 80% will stop.
Otherwise saying its against the rules is just a piece of PR trying to get people to shutup about it (which I think is what it actually is and why mentioning that its against the rules is irrelevant)
The SF5 example interesting, thanks for sharing.
If FDEV finally does something they should make it public, show the numbers and consequences to discourage combat logging. Shadow bans are to harsh in my opinion but beeing banned to solo for a limited time is something that could work. The reason is that there will be players who get a false positive ban because their network connection / computer is poor. I see no problem with moving them to solo, if their computer / network can't handle PvP there is no reason why they should waste anyones time. Creating an automatic system where you get moved to solo for 24 hours after 3 disconnects sounds like something that could get implemented. If the player gets moved to solo again within a week he stays there for 48 hours and so on. That doesn't solve the problem with people combat logging in solo but I honestly don't care.
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