(info) First bonus for playing in OPEN under consideration for PP

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…, which is why I tend to play in Open unless I'm exploring, there's that chance of some risk, although with less than a dozen PvP encounters in almost a year…

…


I dunno maybe I just play in a some special version of open where PvP is actually a rarity.
…

…


Also took a few attempts to find someone in open, I even parked outside of Lave when it was popular and only ever seen 1 other person there.

I’m doing something wrong.
I participated in CGs where I considered it a peaceful day when I got interdicted only once. Had CGs where I got interdicted 2-3 times a day.
I’m confused by some of the recent CGs I participated that I got only interdicted once in a whole week.


Sure, flying around outside of CG systems Open is indeed quite peaceful overall, but I’m usually in some very uninteresting systems far away from the hubs.


Not that it matters for this discussion. I’m just wondering as I get the impression that it really depends on time zone, location and internet connection - instancing - how high or low the risk of getting attacked by an other CMDR is.

OK, now everybody can get back at discussion the topic(s)

 

[GilliganTX]

Look at this and tell me what's wrong with "Power Play"

Spoiler

View attachment 108179
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View attachment 108181

IMO, its hard to blame the system when most of the players don't particularly care for the "the game."

The problem isn't that PP allows for that to happen, IMO, that's great that it allows players to be their own worst enemy. No, the problem is PP does a very poor job of communicating its mechanics, much like the rest of the game.

The problem is there is no incentive for taking supplies 200LY to a system that needs it, vs 7LY to just get it over with. Should there be? I don't know. As it sits, powers with more "savy" players, who do pay attention to the games mechanics and try to maximize their impact will be successful. I think that is just.

 

[Majinvash]

So...

No source then for your so called "information".
Just more make believe with a hint of a dig at me because I do provide information from Frontier ( "throw about thousands of quotes" - you really hate my Wall of Information don't you. lol ).

Funny how for every post you make, you always lack source material or proof of your claims.

But feel free to claim PvP'ers and PvP is so important to Frontier, I'm sure that is why they built a whole game on PvE and don't even reward PvP in Power Play and PvP Piracy is the worse career in game followed by PvP Bounty Hunting.

What Claims?

3 Modes... Where are the players... DUH!

I am talking common business sense.
Yes there are other Space games coming. No mans sky, Valkyrie, SC getting better with every patch.
FD are aware that player groups activity are dropping, because they have said so to us because we are special and triple E.

Game - Do you need my CV or perhaps I could find an old payslip?

Here is some facts and figures.

http://www.theesa.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/ESA-Essential-Facts-2015.pdf

Seems to support a lot of what I say but feel free to pull it a part, I really don't care.

Here is a picture of a cat. Proves Cats like Call of Duty

If tomorrow DB came out with a statement you didn't like, I am sure you could prove him wrong. 2year old quotes are powerful!

I am off to enjoy March 14th, I have just finished my steak.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[Roybe]

Look at this and tell me what's wrong with "Power Play"

Spoiler

View attachment 108179
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View attachment 108181

Frontier: your systems are "too complicated" .. it requires 2 clicks to find out what to do. TWO! That is 60% TOO MUCH for your average player.
Your average player is lost, confused and useless.
Nerf this game to a point where I can sit my hamster in front of the computer and you would notice no difference in performance.

Come visit Lugh for the past 6 months or so! You guys have it easy!

 

[GluttonyFang]

Fold

Oh dear >_>...

I'm throwing all the paperwork into the shredder and covering my ears for the night...

 

[Carmaki]

Oh dear >_>...

I'm throwing all the paperwork into the shredder and covering my ears for the night...

That maybe the best course of action, all things considered.

 

[GilliganTX]

What Claims?

3 Modes... Where are the players... DUH!

Not to get in the middle of y'all's little domestic dispute, but you have made several unjustifiable claims (most in here have), regarding which mode players are playing in what numbers.

I am off to enjoy March 14th, I have just finished my steak.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

Now I'm really glad I didn't set you on ignore this morning, or else I'd have missed this little gem. Thanks. I got a good laugh out of it.

And best of luck with that endeavor.

Oh dear >_>...

I'm throwing all the paperwork into the shredder and covering my ears for the night...

I've never known a dog that needed any tools to shred paperwork.

 

[Roybe]

What Claims?

3 Modes... Where are the players... DUH!

I am talking common business sense.
Yes there are other Space games coming. No mans sky, Valkyrie, SC getting better with every patch.
FD are aware that player groups activity are dropping, because they have said so to us because we are special and triple E.

Game - Do you need my CV or perhaps I could find an old payslip?

Here is some facts and figures.

http://www.theesa.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/ESA-Essential-Facts-2015.pdf

Seems to support a lot of what I say but feel free to pull it a part, I really don't care.

Here is a picture of a cat. Proves Cats like Call of Duty

http://www.videojuegosadiario.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/shut-up-im-playing-call-of-duty.jpg

If tomorrow DB came out with a statement you didn't like, I am sure you could prove him wrong. 2year old quotes are powerful!

I am off to enjoy March 14th, I have just finished my steak.

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

Glad to hear that they see this AND that they are discussing how to repair the problems...of course, bug free gaming would be a great place to start....since this is what seems to cause wider spread ambivalence than any PvP/PvE problems within the game...just look at the current BGS issues related to the community response to SDC. Response was appropriate...but the BGS has only partially worked.

Well it would at least make the final 'slamming of the door' for those that would leave over the changes easy to 'hear'.

 

[GluttonyFang]

I've never known a dog that needed any tools to shred paperwork.

Nvm, using my teeth...


Nom nom nom


Sorry impartiality committee, my dog... the dog ate my homework... I mean paperwork .-.

 

[Mohrgan]

I think we may be able to see how Sandro suddenly, recently began to feel open has it harder. The Voice informing us how he, and the 'elite of Elite' (sarcasm, of course) have the Dev's ears, along with G-Fang messaging from the same talking points as Sandro, starts to convince me that the influence of the large players groups needs to be balanced with a voice for the lone wolf/small group players.

 

[Boomer Kay]

The problem isn't that PP allows for that to happen, IMO, that's great that it allows players to be their own worst enemy. No, the problem is PP does a very poor job of communicating its mechanics, much like the rest of the game.

It's 2 clicks and some very simple, straight forward text telling you what to do to play "Power Play". (does my little red marker do that trick and improve useability that much? decades of screenshot laden powerpoint training material ;P )
Whatever else it is they're doing is not "Power Play". "Grinding merits for your own pewpew reward" .. nice and dandy .. not Power Play. That power's going down with 2000% overfortified systems.
Please don't let them try to "fix" 2 click 1 text stuff they can't even grasp. Large parts of this entire discussion are utter rubbish.
I cannot get any clearer than this.

 

[bitstorm]

if the numeric difference is going to be so large as 2:1....this would mean that for time spent, a player in Private/Solo would have to grind twice as long as someone in Open to equal out the difference.

I don't think you can draw that conclusion.

The reason people do it in solo/group is because it's safer. If is indeed safer it means there's more risk in open, a higher risk means a higher chance of not being able to achieve any particular goal.

The point being the current baseline is not 1:1 and if the suggested change occurs then whatever ratio it currently is is likely to adjust anyway, probably towards more risk in open.

 

[Kristov]

Indeed, which is why I haven't gone so far as to say it's a bad idea or not needed. There are merits to the idea (pun-intended).


I'm just saying it's not about making the game modes equal. At the moment they are equal. This is about making the game modes more equitable in regard to powerplay. Doing so will make the game modes unequal.

That is just the fact of the matter. I'm withholding opinions on it, as I haven't fully formed them yet.

The game modes are equal in all aspects EXCEPT PP, that's where the imbalance is, and that's all Sandro's proposal addresses, the imbalance in PP and it only gives modifications to the Powers, the players actually get no direct benefit from it, no extra credits, no extra merits, nothing.

Plenty of organised PP and PvP groups have been calling for a change like this, I've seen playing in solo/group used as an insult/accusation against factions loads of times as well.

Well you can't really say this...as you do not know who in the game might have his ear. There are plenty of people, I am sure, that contact him via PM...and he being a likeable fellow, would enter into conversations with some/many of them. Even if this is not the case, the PvP crowd has been diminishing quite well on its own accord...primarily from what they state as a poor design choice/idea...that the modes should give equal weight to equal work and the overall poor state of roles that should be more PvP oriented including Pirating and Bounty Hunting.

This, while dressed up as a fix to PP, is really an attempted fix to the imbalance between the modes, as the PvP people perceive it. By offering more power to merits in Open, the hope would be that more people would deliver them there....particularly if the numeric difference is going to be so large as 2:1....this would mean that for time spent, a player in Private/Solo would have to grind twice as long as someone in Open to equal out the difference. This MIGHT bring more players to Open, to try to deliver through the PVP players trying to stop them...IF they are instanced with the PVP players trying to stop them AND the PVE players can be bothered to play PP in Open.

Since Sandro said the data shows the imbalance, sorry, I'm going to take his word over both of yours that there is indeed an imbalance, especially given that you two aren't exactly unbiased in the PvE vs PvP bit. I could give a rat's ass to be honest, I did PP for a bit, it's a grind, pure and simple, and outside of the toys for certain Powers, pointless as far as I'm concerned. I could see the imbalance when I did PP, it was a well known fact, you two are both aware of this, ANYONE doing PP and reading the forums for PP and the reddits for PP are aware of this fact, it's not only known and discussed but it's openly exploited. This isn't something that Sandro JUST made up to please PvPers, it's been known by the community for a while, so why the ?

Again, imbalance in the modes regarding PP only, proposal from a dev to fix that imbalance, which is based on the actual game data. Strong opposition from the PvE only crowd...why? All modes are supposed to be equal in all regards, remember? You folks scream and rant about that all time, but when an imbalance is pointed out that does shows Open is getting less than it should, you say stuff it?

Funny, I know for a fact that if Sandro had said Solo was imbalanced and suggested a modifier for it, you folks would be screaming it from the mountaintops and demanding FD put it in RIGHT NOW! Guess that all modes being equal really does mean, all modes being equal but OUR chosen mode is more equal then the other....

 

[GluttonyFang]

I think we may be able to see how Sandro suddenly, recently began to feel open has it harder. The Voice informing us how he, and the 'elite of Elite' (sarcasm, of course) have the Dev's ears, along with G-Fang messaging from the same talking points as Sandro, starts to convince me that the influence of the large players groups needs to be balanced with a voice for the lone wolf/small group players.

Wait what?

You're accusing The Code of strong-arming FD?

Seriously?

Please don't make me take Majin's side on the forum, that usually ends badly.

Do you even know what groups are Triple Elite and how many of those groups are PvE exclusive?

Research please?

 

[GilliganTX]

It's 2 clicks and some very simple, straight forward text telling you what to do to play "Power Play".
Whatever else it is they're doing is not "Power Play". "Grinding merits for your own pewpew reward" .. nice and dandy .. not Power Play. That power's going down with 2000% overfortified systems.
Please don't let them try to "fix" 2 click 1 text stuff they can't even grasp.
I cannot get any clearer than this.

Indeed, it shouldn't be very hard to grasp it at all. But after reading all that, I still had to come to the forums and the wiki to clarify what it all meant and so on.

Even then, I don't think that's a very big deal, if one at all.


Not trying to be offensive, but if your powers pledges are too dumb to work the mechanics properly, or just don't care about advancing their power, then perhaps it is working as intended if that power is falling behind others whose pledges do communicate effectively with one another work the mechanics to benefit their faction?



So no, not a problem for you or I, but it is a problem regarding those who do want a more hand-holding experience from elite. If there was a "How to Power play" tutorial mission, they might grasp it better, but sadly most simply will not/don't care, and want the merits as quickly as possible so they can have a nice rank, nice shields, and a Cr. bonus.

 

[Jypson]

The game modes are equal in all aspects EXCEPT PP, that's where the imbalance is, and that's all Sandro's proposal addresses, the imbalance in PP and it only gives modifications to the Powers, the players actually get no direct benefit from it, no extra credits, no extra merits, nothing.





Since Sandro said the data shows the imbalance, sorry, I'm going to take his word over both of yours that there is indeed an imbalance, especially given that you two aren't exactly unbiased in the PvE vs PvP bit. I could give a rat's ass to be honest, I did PP for a bit, it's a grind, pure and simple, and outside of the toys for certain Powers, pointless as far as I'm concerned. I could see the imbalance when I did PP, it was a well known fact, you two are both aware of this, ANYONE doing PP and reading the forums for PP and the reddits for PP are aware of this fact, it's not only known and discussed but it's openly exploited. This isn't something that Sandro JUST made up to please PvPers, it's been known by the community for a while, so why the ?

Again, imbalance in the modes regarding PP only, proposal from a dev to fix that imbalance, which is based on the actual game data. Strong opposition from the PvE only crowd...why? All modes are supposed to be equal in all regards, remember? You folks scream and rant about that all time, but when an imbalance is pointed out that does shows Open is getting less than it should, you say stuff it?

Funny, I know for a fact that if Sandro had said Solo was imbalanced and suggested a modifier for it, you folks would be screaming it from the mountaintops and demanding FD put it in RIGHT NOW! Guess that all modes being equal really does mean, all modes being equal but OUR chosen mode is more equal then the other....

> Objection your honor, assuming facts!

 

[Mohrgan]

It's 2 clicks and some very simple, straight forward text telling you what to do to play "Power Play".
Whatever else it is they're doing is not "Power Play". "Grinding merits for your own pewpew reward" .. nice and dandy .. not Power Play. That power's going down with 2000% overfortified systems.
Please don't let them try to "fix" 2 click 1 text stuff they can't even grasp.
I cannot get any clearer than this.

Much of what Sandro originally wrote about was the Fifth Column activities that they would like to minimize in PP. The need to reduce 5C activity has little to nothing to do with the modes, or the population in open. And, none of his post suggested so.

If there is a need to balance around the risk of PvP to PP players, I'm not saying there is but, if there was, why not just reward PP aligned players for PvP? For every PvP contest between pp aligned players, reward both the of the actors for the effort and the risk is rewarded. Rather than pay people off for a risk of extra risk.

This won;t be considered. Because equity between the modes is not the impetus behind the suggested rewards. It is all about sussung out what kind of bonus would improve open's population, and what kind of backlash would come from enacting one. If they did only reward for the actual risk, who would be enticed into open?

 

[Boomer Kay]

So no, not a problem for you or I, but it is a problem regarding those who do want a more hand-holding experience from elite. If there was a "How to Power play" tutorial mission, they might grasp it better, but sadly most simply will not/don't care, and want the merits as quickly as possible so they can have a nice rank, nice shields, and a Cr. bonus.

Ahhh.. that's what they don't get in the announcement.
That the individual rewards will not be altered and they still have to grind 3 factions individually for the hammer-prismatic-Bountyhuntbonus rewards.



Ok, nothing to see here, move along .. all working as intended .. 300x bonus for everyone in open.

5th columning, power play balancing and all that stuff ..And I almost believed that's what this is about.

 

[Mohrgan]

Wait what?

You're accusing The Code of strong-arming FD?

Seriously?

Please don't make me take Majin's side on the forum, that usually ends badly.

Do you even know what groups are Triple Elite and how many of those groups are PvE exclusive?

Research please?

I'm sorry if I didn't remind everyone to don their prophylactic brain protector.

 

[bitstorm]

Much of what Sandro originally wrote about was the Fifth Column activities that they would like to minimize in PP. The need to reduce 5C activity has little to nothing to do with the modes, or the population in open. And, none of his post suggested so.

If there is a need to balance around the risk of PvP to PP players, I'm not saying there is but, if there was, why not just reward PP aligned players for PvP? For every PvP contest between reward both the actors for the effort and the risk is rewarded. Rather than pay people off for a risk of extra risk.

This won;t be considered. Because equity between the modes is not the impetus behind the suggested rewards. It is all about sussung out what kind of bonus would improve open's population, and what kind of backlash would come from enacting one. If they did only reward for the actual risk, who would be enticed into open?

I think the point is whether you get attacked or not you do take a risk, and even just that threat of risk is pushing people to PP in solo/group. If you chose open and did not get attacked you've still chosen a riskier path, the question is should taking that risk be rewarded, or should you be rewarded only if combat happens.

The balance Sandro is suggesting I think assumes that.

I think a few things a worth bearing in mind...

1) IF the bonus is ONLY to apply when players are attacked I think it's likely the bonus provided in the name of balance would then have to be higher to account for that.

2) Rewarding only in the event of PvP then encourages people to artificially seek PvP "for a bonus", optimal path then becomes open then attack someone. Rather than open then try your utmost to evade combat and stay safe for the delivery. Big difference between those two paths.

Either solution of course is valid, but in the end it's worth thinking about the side effects of rewardng only in the event you're attacked.

FWIW This is Sandro's quote, he never mentions PvP. (although you can probably infer that)

My thinking for this? At the moment, any way I slice it, I can't come to any conclusion other than Commanders in Open Play have a tougher time than those in Private Groups or Solo. So the playing field is basically uneven as it stands and in this case, maybe change could make things better.