(info) First bonus for playing in OPEN under consideration for PP

[Cmdr Cunomaglus]

If we figure out a manner to implement it, it might work, I'm going to brainstorm about it.

It's not difficult; make the merits gained dependant on the value of the ship destroyed. Sidewinder = 2 merits. Corvette = 300. You want to spend an obscene number of hours killing your mate in a Sidey 5000 times for your rank 5? Go for it, good luck, have fun. Or you could do something useful and interesting instead.

Have PvP missions within PP to kill a certain merit value of ships for a merit bonus + cash.

Piracy missions within PP to pirate faction gadgets from other powers.

etc.

There are a thousand better ways to equate the modes than altering the mechanics between them.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

I like the idea of splitting the playerbase even more. It might even make Open mode (or Open Modeower Play) possible to spin off as a seperate game, like CQC/Arena.

I think it might do just as well:

http://steamcharts.com/app/443080#All

 

[Sir.Tj]

Had to clean a load of off topic posts,

Lets saty on topic please?

Thanks.

 

[Ziljan]

Good point. If you are involved in PP, you're better off just merit grinding yourself rather than doing the PvP anyway. It makes no difference if you kill an opposing powerplayer right? Or do you get merits for that?

I think you get a Merit or two for a PVP kill. I don't know, it's so hard to complete an honest kill in 1v1 that it happens so rarely, so it might as well be zero.

So yes, in Open people wing up to merit grind via PVE. Just like in Solo except you have to wait for your wing mates to tag the target before you complete the kill. Jumping in and out of SC in a wing and coordinating PP kill sharing is a bit like being on a condo committee. It adds an extra layer of bureaucracy to an already unpleasant chore.

What we really need is a way for PP to feel exciting and challenging. Imo, it should be the most challenging difficulty setting in the game. Which is OK because it's optional. But currently it is the absolute easiest. The only difficulty is the Byzantine and tedious Merit/Command Capital economic structure. I am fine with complexity. But it should be masked in a way that makes it fun to learn. Without the Fun, there isn't much point because even if it's a masterpiece, you'll end up with an empty theme park.

 

[Boomer Kay]

So I went to my new favorite system: HIP 95256 to facecheck some of Power Plays oddities.
The rumors were right, you actually have to turn in at least 1 pamphlet to get the actual data. Whether you look in galaxy view, in the overview when you enter the system or in the PowePlay Contacts page once docked in a station, the Fortification/Undermine number is 0.
Which is misleading. If it's a "feature", not a bug, this should urgently to be reconsidered. I don't mind mystery and fog of war, but deliberately showing a wrong state as "0", when the actual facts are "unknown" leads to a flawed decision making process, which in the end makes me doubt any information I'm given by the game developer, since it's making me look like an idiot, if I trust it.

Furthermore, you need to dump at least 1 pamphlet (of the x you have in your cargo) into a potentially overfortified system, since even docking in the station does not update the value from 0 to the real value.

And then I'm stuck with a ship full of pamphlets in an already sufficiently fortified system, that I have -against my better knowledge and will- overfortified, where I can either just dump the rest to get my merits, or trek to another system to check what's going on there.
Now I'm a good citizen, who loves his power and does everything in his limited abilities to help her royal cuteness' cause, trek to another system and unload there. (<- that's what perfect me would to, being somewhat lazy, I just dropped the other 49 into an already overfortified system that I was led to by ingame information .. -le sigh- )

I actually and actively try to work in the best interest of my power (which is pretty much impossible with in-game information), but the Poodle that drops all of his cutters full of pamphlets in the nearest system for maximized personal gain needs to get more "leverage" on the large scale, because he does it in open?
The other poodles that prepare a deficit making system at the rim of god knows where for god knows what reasons and harm my power's progress need to get more "leverage" on the large scale, because they do so in open?

Sirs, here's the other cheek. I can self-destruct in my python full of pamphlets at whatever "average getting ganked" I get told to offset the "dangers" of open, if that helps.
I'll post screenshots of the rebuy screen.

 

[Midnight Sun]

There are a thousand better ways to equate the modes than altering the mechanics between them.

That's the crucial thing. So many better ways to do it, ways which improve the game without further polarising the community.

Mr Fang has made some good ideas in his thread 'An Alternative to Introducing Open Mode Power Play Incentives'.

I hope the devs see reason and save the changes until they can do a proper overhaul of PP that makes us all happy. Cos a simple mode bonus is Not Good Enough.

 

[Schlack]

I don't know if it has been brought up before, but I am almost forced to play in private groups or solo. I have a pretty poor internet connection. If there are more than 3-4 cmdrs in my instance (if my pc Is in control of it) I and everyone else gets terrible rubberbanding making PVP extremely frustrating and essentially a game of change rather than skill - that's if I can even instance with anyone else.

Now I don't engage too much with PP at the moment (given the current mechanics and minimal connection to the BGS) but that's not to say I wont give it another try. I am already penalized by a poor connection, robbing me of fun interactions and emergent play. Granting a bonus that I cannot take advantage of, would further penalize me for a poor internet connection.

 

[Ian Phillips]

It is not a bonus for the player, but for the Power they are working for.

You - as a player - would not be penalised in any way.

 

[Perseus]

You get 1 PP merit for an enemy CMDR kill.
I wish it was half of whatever they were carrying at the time of the kill.

 

[Abil Midena]

It is not a bonus for the player, but for the Power they are working for.

You - as a player - would not be penalised in any way.

I would submit that a change that increases my effectiveness towards my goal is a personal gain (i.e. supporting my PP faction). Also, PP, I believe, was not meant for new players, and those that truly participate in PP to support their power, are probably no longer interested so much in other 'personal gain', i.e. credits, Navy rank, etc. anyway.

If you do that for Open only, you are penalizing non Open players, as their play time is now much less effective in support of their power. It is no different if Sandro had said "...and my proposed fix is to reduce non Open effort reward by 50%." Doing that would, in effect, also give Open players a bonus.

 

[WR3ND]

It is not a bonus for the player, but for the Power they are working for.

You - as a player - would not be penalised in any way.

Yeah, but one would hope that one of the main points of Powerplay is to "get involved," not just another stat to grind. This kind of a suggestion implies that Open is the real game, which is something I don't actually entirely disagree with in certain ways, but it leaves me wondering what the goal is. To balance a perceived imbalance, apparently. For that, I'd much rather see Powerplay features, crime and punishment, and AI improvements and fine tuning than something as inelegant as the modes being weighed differently.

I don't really see the suggestion as a solution to a problem, just an inequality being slapped on to try and cover another. I don't see that as good game design, but more importantly, it seems like a missed opportunity to enhance the overall quality of the game itself.

(Disclaimer: I left off on page 37 and haven't read most of the thread after that. I may or may not get around to it.)

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

It is not a bonus for the player, but for the Power they are working for.

You - as a player - would not be penalised in any way.

Thats not true. This is only true when the intention of the participating player is the cbills and equipment of what PP offers. If the intention of the player is to trully support his Power he is aligned with then this is a Bonus for those in open. Or in reverse as a player in solo your efforts are now only 20% compared to a player in open. So its kinda nerfing Solo players by 80% compared to those playing in Open. Thats is a factum and it does not go in a line with what you told for people who use PP as playing with the powers. What you said only affects People wanting the credits/bonus equipment.

 

[Meritz]

Which won't make any difference to those who would like to avoid PvP all together, will it? And yes some of those do like the idea of PP and funnily those people also care about the result of their actions.

So, you want to participate in a PvP activity without doing any PvP. Sounds to me like you want to have the ball all to yourself.

PP is PvP. Even when we are not blowing each other up. Keep that in mind.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

So, you want to participate in a PvP activity without doing any PvP. Sounds to me like you want to have the ball all to yourself.

PP is PvP. Even when we are not blowing each other up. Keep that in mind.

Thats the question, is it PVP? the current implemention si clearly not "blow each other up PVP" its just a PVP by PVE mechanics, as in a race who reaches a specific score first. So the question is, what did FD originally even wanted this system to be? Because I currently cannot really see what it was supposed to be.

 

[Perseus]

Thats the question, is it PVP? the current implemention si clearly not "blow each other up PVP" its just a PVP by PVE mechanics, as in a race who reaches a specific score first. So the question is, what did FD originally even wanted this system to be? Because I currently cannot really see what it was supposed to be.

You don't just reach a score, you compete against each other to get yours higher in expansions. Enemy Cmdrs, if in your instance, can seriously impede your PP activities. PP is competitive and non more so than trying to operate (directly) against enemy players.

 

[Boomer Kay]

So the question is, what did FD originally even wanted this system to be? Because I currently cannot really see what it was supposed to be.

Realm versus Realm.
A nice concept and if implemented properly, balanced in itself (which it isn't .. some powers just attract the merit grinders that don't care about the big picture thanks to their bonuses), the modes would have no influence on the outcomes at all.

(... and sorry if I get briefly positive here in all the bashing but the implementation of something like Power Play and spread across all modes is actually quite brilliant! It does need some love, tweaking and polish, though to live up to something good)

Not even sure Sandro's data is not "self fulfilling prophecy".
The people who are interested in Realm vs. Realm usually have no interest in "petty skirmishes" .. which is presented as the big gamechanger here. "My group of four" .. "My group of 18" ... Uhm.. nope? You're opposing an empire. Unless your name is Leonidas, your group of 300 is not much of an asset.

If you go trough the reddits and PP forums here, stuff is often blamed on "open vs. solo" that is actually more "complete lack of higher rulesets set by the game" (hindering or even hurting your own power is not dealt with by game mechanics - wasting effort is even coerced by the mechanics) or "complete lack of in-game organization tools". And no support for actual large-scale battles, which would require completely different strategies than small scale skirmishes.

"Real" RvR games even discourage petty skirmishes by a combination of rulesets and persistance. If you act like a Poodle, you cannot switch modes and play the "PvE" part at your own leisure. Grind your riches back and just pretend nothing happened? You'll be outcast. You'll be meaningless. You'll die alone. (<- epic voice of doom mode)

ED doesn't have real persistence, doesn't have real structures or tools for PP. But yea, let's tack some bonus on that will draw the serious Realm vs. Realm players into an environment, where they have to deal with petty skirmishes.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Question for the PP analysts.

Let us assume for the moment that Sandro's (2x?) proposed bonus was implemented on the next cycle.

1) What do you think the effect will be on your power's preparation, fortification, expansion, and undermining attempts assuming that nobody switches mode due to bonus?

2) What do you think the effect will be on your power's preparation, fortification, expansion, and undermining attempts assuming that at least 50% of current solo/group PPers change to playing in Open?

I understand you don't have firm number for your speculations, but since you analysts run the numbers, you probably have a good idea of what double bonuses will cause in the first instance, and you probably can hazard a guess on the second.

and finally

3) Do you believe, from your analysis of powerplay player behaviour (those who simply take part in PP for the bonus, those who play it strategically, those who 5C) do you think that it will cause an increase in PvP interactions? Will you as players focus more on stopping opposition directly, or you will still focus on getting those deliveries and undermining done? What will you do if you see an enemy player in a warzone? Will you stay for the PvP, or will you switch warzone until you find one where there are no players? Will anyone camp warzones or systems to try and stop players (do you already?) or its still better to simply ignore the opposition and focus on your own merit grind?

(Sorry if number 3 is quite speculative, skip it if you don't have an answer, i'm probably showing my lack of understanding of how PP players organize themselves).

 

[Dave1235]

You can still control who you interact with in Group.

Well we know that's not 100% true now dont we. not even in pve groups. Ala code / sdc

 

[GluttonyFang]

Well we know that's not 100% true now dont we. not even in pve groups. Ala code / sdc

Mobius as a group is not the type of private group I'm referring to. I'm talking about using private group to control membership and interaction in a limited, small number sense, not as in having thousands of Cmdrs.

Revoke access has been enhanced by FD on an account wide scale rather than for a account's save.

If you want to name and shame, go use another thread.

 

[Kristov]

Well we know that's not 100% true now dont we. not even in pve groups. Ala code / sdc

Actually, it is 100% true, you always have total control over who joins your private group, even Mobius has that control. Not vetting people when you are running a group that large is entirely on Mobius, and don't even try the 'but that's too many people' bit, start the vetting at the start, not after you've got 20k people, it's not so time consuming to vet each applicant as they apply and before you admit them. Youtube, Facebook and Google make it a very simple and quick process. Relying on the promise of strangers online is a foolish thing, as has been clearly shown by the multitude of times Mobius has had to kick people now, some of whom got right back in using the same commander name that was already removed once.

Group creator does have 100% control of whomever is allowed into the group, whether they exercise that or not is a different matter all together.