Let's get one thing straight.

[Bill Clement]

Which is exactly what your doing, you can't place a theoretical limit on something like "PP- there is no increased danger from opposing PP in open. None, even if you get interdicted and blown to smithereens. The blockader is wasting time, effort and resources blowing you up that would be much better spent undermining or reinforcing."

This is like saying in the board-game diplomacy you shouldn't ever attempt to negotiate with the other players because its best to assume they will all betray you and to instead just win the game analytically. Theoretically your completely correct, in practice your completely wrong.

I barely engage in powerplay and even then i've still been interdicted multiple times by players defending the province i was undermining, its rare but it does happen, if you think doing powerplay exclusively in open has absolutely no difference to solo your just kidding yourself, it might be very nearly no difference, or near as makes no difference no difference, but they are not equal until you are the only player left.

Agree that fixing 5th factioning is way way more important to fix though, or tbh all of powerplay probably needs a mechanics overhaul.

You don't understand what I'm saying?
Try this: I'm not saying you won't or didn't get interdicted, I'm saying that your being interdicted is having a positive effect on your activity- the danger of you losing is reduced by each ship trying to enforce a blockade. If they catch you they gain nothing- all they have done is prevent your effort. Their best effort forced a draw on this single occasion.
However, the ship that caught you hasn't contributed anything to their effort. The longer it stands to, on station, the wider the gap between its contribution and that of an identical ship actually contributing to the faction's aims. It probably missed you on the run before, when it didn't contribute to their effort, it'll probably miss you on the next run, when it still contributes nothing to their effort. Even if you posit an unrealistically high number of successful interceptions you still win because the only score is when you evade the blockade. They score nothing for destroying your ship. The only scoring move is the one the ship running the blockade is making. It is inconvenient losing your ship, but insurance allows you to make repeated re-buys during the campaign, even on the rare occasions that you do get caught. Blockade in PP is a losing strategy.
I'm not saying that PP in open is no different to solo- absolutely the reverse. In open you can expect human interaction at any point. This is why I play in open. A pew pew encounter or three during a week of PP is a welcome distraction for me. But if the interdiction comes from an opposing faction then they've given me a huge advantage, worth every credit of the re-buy. Functionally, as well as entertaining me they've also very sportingly handed me the win, all else being equal.
Put yet another way: the demand to be able to pew pew the opposing side is a demand to be allowed to pursue an obviously flawed, losing strategy. Since no-one who wants to win PP would make such a desperately stupid demand, it follows that the demand isn't made to balance PP, it's made to force solo players into open. The OP gave us all an insight into why he doesn't want to do that, I can come up with half a dozen other reasons to justify wanting to play solo- none of them have anything to do with PP.
Sleutelbos is right, Sandro gave a long, in depth examination of PP and there will be changes, I've no doubt. But the one that is relevant to this thread is the suggestion that open should be awarded a bonus over solo, because a significant number of players prefer solo. Unless and until FD demonstrate that the majority of them are doing so for reasons solely concerning PP, this is just pandering to the open zealots. If it happens, it's reasonable to assume that other measures will follow.
I think that's a very bad idea.

This thread is utterly ridiculous.

Does anyone here GENUINELY think Frontier are scrapping solo and forcing people into open? Why on Earth does this topic keep coming up again and again?

Where did this ridiculous rumour come from that folk keep complaining about it happening and how they WON'T stand for it?

It's like trying to discuss a genuinely interesting topic with Chicken Little or something.

C'mon bits, you're better than that, no need to drag up Aunt Sallies on a thread you thought was interesting just a few pages ago!

 

[bitstorm]

C'mon bits, you're better than that, no need to drag up Aunt Sallies on a thread you thought was interesting just a few pages ago!

Not getting the aunt sally reference?

 

[Bostlabs]

If you think I play Elite: Dangerous for "emergent gameplay" and social interactions, you couldn't be farther from the truth. That's just one CMDR though, so who knows...

Ditto.
I play Elite like I played to 84 version. My brothers do as well and we get to play it as a group (almost like we did in 84).
I don't need any of the other stuff or we do it ourselves. We don't need anyone else to join or interfere with our fun.

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Sorry but is this a troll question?

I mean I feel this has been talked about in many many threads for the last month.

You haven't seen the Sandro thread talking about the BGS issues?

There's more difference between the modes than instancing.

If that's really the case why do people switch to solo/pg for Powerplay activities?

I don't think so. Being treated as a 2nd class player in a game where you've paid exactly, if not more, than players in open just has a real bad smell to it. No matter how you dress it up it still stinks as bad.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

Well I'll say no on that, since I don't PvP in the terms I think you mean.

Do I PvP?

I have been attacked and have defended myself when it was right to do so, or alternatively done a runner. So maybe I do actually PvP?

Last time it happened I lost a Cutter (of all things) in Shinrarta. Arguably it was my own fault (yes I'm stupid) it was right near the station, I set the docking computer then walked away, came back and was being shot at (no idea alpha strike?), just alt-tabbed back in to see myself shieldless bounce off the side of the station and explode (docking comp deactivated due to being attacked see).

Back in Cutter made my way all the way back to Shinrarta and at that point I had to make a decision, I wanted to get to Shinrarta but with a Cutter I did not want to risk another loss, I had no idea what to expect when jumping in.

So previously I might have just dropped to solo then and there, seeing the whole thing as a big inconvenience, but instead I went to an adjacent system and bought Cobra.

Equipped it with a sort of blockade running build, fast, shields, chaff, heatsinks, no weapons etc... And jumped back into Shinrarta ready to play cat and mouse with a wing of players. Actually saw nothing but I was all ready to run their blockade!!!

Anyway got the the station without issue, Cutter is still in the adjacent system as we speak.

So sure I could have huffed and puffed and dropped to another mode, but I tell you what, despite encountering nothing it was the most exciting "Nothing happened" Shinararta run I've ever done!

Sure maybe I have a different view of this than others but stuff like that can be fun if you just run with it and accept it as part of the game, it's gameplay of a level of excitement you won't get elsewhere. It's just ED makes it all too easy and in some places actually encourages you to sidestep it all.


On me PvPing, I quite fancy giving it a go but haven't yet. I wouldn't want to drop into some hardcore PvP zone to do it, just something with some lesser skilled pilots like me and for fun.

Rank is semi-professional at CQC FWIW.

Well, I was gonna suggest going there with a throwaway ship just to see it for what it is but meh.
Or watch some vids...
My point is that things have changed but you'll not see them until you experience them. Basically,the meta changed so catch up a little.
Losing a cutter will prolly cost so my sympathies but to some it's just par for the course. Not so much me though, I'm like a chicken banana...I have a healthy fear of Humans, generally because Banana...unsurprisingly.
But, before you start defending certain things, do your homework.
You may not be so happy with what you see.
Just saying.

 

[bitstorm]

But, before you start defending certain things, do your homework.
You may not be so happy with what you see.
Just saying.

But what do you think I'm defending?

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Being treated as a 2nd class player in a game where you've paid exactly, if not more, than players in open just has a real bad smell to it. Not matter how you dress it up it still stinks as bad.

That's the point, there's currently an inherent advantage for participating in PP while in solo, open players are 2nd class in respect to this activity.

Maybe I've paid more than you?

 

[Bostlabs]

But what do you think I'm defending?

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That's the point, there's currently an inherent advantage for participating in PP while in solo, open players are 2nd class in respect to this activity.

Hogwash. I don't bother with PP anymore because I discovered that my contributions are useless. Yet Open wants a bennie for playing in open to try to 'entice' more PVP targets to shoot at. Seems like a poor deal for the 2nd class citizens of solo/PG to me. Come out to open to get shot, maybe you'll get a bonus for your power.

Pftt!

Maybe I've paid more than you?

Could be. Don't care either way. What you are I paid matters not. We have the same game. We should be treated the same. PVP or no PVP.

 

[Phil^]

If this is how players are treated when posting a reasonably thought out post - is it really any surprise when people choose a game mode *other* than open?
Perhaps people ought to look at their own actions and see if they should alter them to be less hostile to anyone who does not subject themselves to being mere targets for the enjoyment of others.

 

[bitstorm]

Hogwash. I don't bother with PP anymore because I discovered that my contributions are useless. Yet Open wants a bennie for playing in open to try to 'entice' more PVP targets to shoot at. Seems like a poor deal for the 2nd class citizens of solo/PG to me. Come out to open to get shot, maybe you'll get a bonus for your power.

Pftt!

Aka rewarding risk.

 

[Comrade Error]

Aka rewarding risk.

Wish the game would go more this route.

 

[Phil^]

Aka rewarding risk.

I'm waiting to see how this boost is implemented before passing judgement on it. Regardless, I cant see it resolving the "solo vs open" viewpoints no matter how effective or otherwise it may be. Its also just yet another sticking plaster on powerplay when it really has needed fundamental work for months now.

Given the balancing of the faction-specific modules, I'm certainly not optimistic for it hitting the sweet spot though.

 

[Ian Skippy]

But the one that is relevant to this thread is the suggestion that open should be awarded a bonus over solo, because a significant number of players prefer solo. Unless and until FD demonstrate that the majority of them are doing so for reasons solely concerning PP, this is just pandering to the open zealots.
I think that's a very bad idea.

This proposal came from FD, and I never saw it proposed on the boards before, never mind with any great following from 'pvp zealots'. Whatever their reason is, them not demonstrating or explaining to you those reasons dont mean you can just pick&chose a self-imagined reason as being true. Its the same flawed reasoning that is behind the 'if you dont show me why you're in solo it must mean you're a coward." Its a total non-sequitur. If we're going to randomly throw possibilities on the table, I propose that sandro does what most of us would do in his position: 'pandering' to himself and the ideas of his colleagues. It stands to reason Sandro has a tendency to agree with himself, and is initially in favor of ideas he himself came up with. That seems to me far more plausible in general than assuming he picks a small part of the community and just 'panders' to them.

As for your idea that blockades are stupid: I am not going to drag stuff around for merits, and NPC farming may also not appeal to me. Emergent gameplay with likeminded cmdrs might appeal to me. Its not about whether blockading gets you less merits than merit-trading or undermining and such, but whether blockading contributes more to a power than not giving any crap whatsoever. I played flight sims that had you patrol for hours (take off, four turns, landing) with the real possibility of not seeing any hostile whatsoever. System patrol sounds like a fun role, and judging by others giving themselves reasons to already do so it may be I am not alone in this.

 

[Bostlabs]

Aka rewarding risk.

Didn't buy then, don't now. Sorry.

 

[bitstorm]

Didn't buy then, don't now. Sorry.

Don;t buy what?

That there's higher risk in open? That the idea of rewarding risk is worthwhile from a gameplay point of view? Or something else?

 

[Bostlabs]

Don;t buy what?

That there's higher risk in open? That the idea of rewarding risk is worthwhile from a gameplay point of view? Or something else?

It is what it is. An enticement to come out into open. Your power gets more points from your effort in open. As I, and others, won't play in open our efforts will be lessened. That is a bad precedent to create and leaves it open for other modifications for Open in the future. Thus the bad smell.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

But what do you think I'm defending?

Homework.

And btw, Solo gains no bonus over Open. It's the PvP players want it all to be about combat and nothing else but just like open, if they are allowed to farm the traders / fortifiers then PP will die as well. Traders/ fortifiers can't cope and even with a trader, that's one useless ship even if it is 4v4 and so imbalanced. Fair fight? Prolly not.
Nobody plays a game to die repeatedly...especially considering the current Meta.

 

[Ian Skippy]

It is what it is. An enticement to come out into open. Your power gets more points from your effort in open. As I, and others, won't play in open our efforts will be lessened. That is a bad precedent to create and leaves it open for other modifications for Open in the future. Thus the bad smell.

Basketball: It is what it is. An enticement to score three-pointers. Your team gets more points from your three-pointers. As I, and others, won't try for three-pointers our efforts will be lessened. That is a bad precedent to create and leaves it open for other modifications for more difficult shots in the future. Thus the bad smell.

Many kinds of competition offer rewards for more difficult performances. You may agree or disagree, but one could at least acknowledge the not-so-novel reasoning behind it.

 

[bitstorm]

Homework.

??????
Sorry I have absolutely no idea what point you're trying to make.

And btw, Solo gains no bonus over Open.

Sandro's saying there is an advantage, so we can argue back and forth all day whther there is or not, but I'm thinking he's got a better view on it than you.

It's the PvP players want it it all to be about combat and nothing else but just like open, if they are allowed to farm the traders / fortifiers then PP will die as well. Traders/ fortifiers can't cope and even with a trader, that's one useless ship even if it is 4v4 and so imbalanced. Fair fight? Prolly not.
Nobody plays a game to die repeatedly...especially considering the current Meta.

Well clearly the idea is NOT to die regardless of mode. But if you're so averse to the risk of being attacked by a player, just play in solo.

But ultimately it's a safer mode, there's no risk. Folk can do monotonously safe trade runs without interference to their heart's content there, that's not going to change.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

??????
Sorry I have absolutely no idea what point you're trying to make.



Sandro's saying there is an advantage, so we can argue back and forth all day whther there is or not, but I'm thinking he's got a better view on it than you.




Well clearly the idea is NOT to die regardless of mode. But if you're so averse to the risk of being attacked by a player, just play in solo. But ultimately it's a safer mode, since there's no risk of death.

Urgghh, I dunno why i bother.

You will when it dawns on you eventually. By promoting PvP aspects, when you don't PvP is never good. Sure, you may think it looks good on paper but experience it. See it for what it truly is if you want to trade anything as a lowbob trader in Open during a high profile event. Understand why players don't bother with it.

Sandro's fix wasn't related to players, it was the one thing he wanted to avoid so they suggested a change to the game mechanics. Get the context right.
Still, some see it as a slippery slope, time will tell. I could hammer the mechanics further, knowing both Solo and Open players take advantage of such things but what's the point. Most of us know PP is not good and just a grind fest, we just quietly wait for fundamental changes...bar the occasional rant thread.

Last bit is funny, all things die. If I made a total count on all the games I've played over all the decades I've been gaming (ZX81 & Arcade machines since then) it's tens or hundreds of thousand times, might even be a million times. Dying in a video game is not that important so you're so wrong when relating that to me because I'm pretty sure I've been desensitized over the years. I simply don't care enough. I play in Open, what do?
What is important is there should be a reason and that reason to make sense so I come back for more and I don't care what kills me.
BTW, there is a risk of death in Solo, it's not all hugs and cookies. Especially if you fly a terrible ship at a high rank.
I'd be interested to know who told you such a thing though...
Why are you so adamant that there is no risk?

P.S.
Dear Mods, can you sort your filter out please?
"Wrap" only with a C, replacing the "W" translates as "awesome"...at least make it make sense and say "terrible" please.
Cheers.

 

[R3DB3RD]

You know I've been won over. Let's give the Open mob what they want.

More reward for the risk of playing In the dangerous waters of Open.

The caveat?

Subscription model for Open only.

You guys want all the love.
Pay for it every month.

 

[Bill Clement]

Not getting the aunt sally reference?

Sorry mate, it's like 'straw man'. I'm not sure where straw man comes from (is it an Americanism?) but an Aunt Sally is "a person or thing set up as an easy target for criticism" ie someone invents something, ascribes it to their debating opponent, then knocks it down. A real Aunt Sally was a small wooden dummy that you'd knock over by throwing balls at it, popular at village fairs before we all discovered feminism and political correctness.

Well I'll say no on that, since I don't PvP in the terms I think you mean.

Do I PvP?

I have been attacked and have defended myself when it was right to do so, or alternatively done a runner. So maybe I do actually PvP?

Last time it happened I lost a Cutter (of all things) in Shinrarta. Arguably it was my own fault (yes I'm stupid) it was right near the station, I set the docking computer then walked away, came back and was being shot at (no idea alpha strike?), just alt-tabbed back in to see myself shieldless bounce off the side of the station and explode (docking comp deactivated due to being attacked see).

Back in Cutter made my way all the way back to Shinrarta and at that point I had to make a decision, I wanted to get to Shinrarta but with a Cutter I did not want to risk another loss, I had no idea what to expect when jumping in.

So previously I might have just dropped to solo then and there, seeing the whole thing as a big inconvenience, but instead I went to an adjacent system and bought Cobra.

Equipped it with a sort of blockade running build, fast, shields, chaff, heatsinks, no weapons etc... And jumped back into Shinrarta ready to play cat and mouse with a wing of players. Actually saw nothing but I was all ready to run their blockade!!!

Anyway got the the station without issue, Cutter is still in the adjacent system as we speak.

So sure I could have huffed and puffed and dropped to another mode, but I tell you what, despite encountering nothing it was the most exciting "no event" Shinararta run I've ever done!!

Sure maybe I have a different view of this than others but stuff like that can be fun if you just run with it and accept it as part of the game, it's gameplay of a level of excitement you won't get elsewhere. It's just ED makes it all too easy and in some places actually encourages you to sidestep it all. And it's when ED encourages that it becomes an issue.


On me PvPing, I quite fancy giving it a go but haven't yet. I wouldn't want to drop into some hardcore PvP zone to do it with some hugely unbalanced meta, just something with some lesser skilled pilots like me and for fun.

Rank is semi-professional at CQC FWIW.

So not a hard core PvPer, then? Me neither!

Sorry about the Cutter, that must have stung. The thing is mate, you had an exciting encounter, you came up with a plan to work around an obstacle and you had fun. That's great, but it doesn't really relate to the OPs experience. It also doesn't relate to many players extremely negative experiences in open. Don't get me wrong, I'm still there, still having a laugh, but there are different reactions to stressful experiences. Getting interdicted in a go fast- a Cobra, say- can be fun. Getting interdicted in a Type 7? Not so much. It's all about the options you have available.
Knowing you have absolutely no chance against just one of the four human players who are going to blow you into smithereens just for laughs takes the excitement out of the encounter. It's not dangerous, it's tedious. 'Accepting it as part of the game' will see you back in a Sidewinder at most CGs in a single afternoon. There are any number of great suggestions from the open zealots, usually variations on 'get gud, n00b', but the game isn't balanced around wings of human players destroying trade ships just for laughs.
The game is evolving- AI fighters, potentially buffed trade ship armament and protection, maybe much heavier handed crime and punishment. None of it is likely to encourage someone who just can't be bothered with pew pew to play with us. Instead of revisiting the same old arguments, actually taking the OPs points into consideration might be a better approach. There are people who just don't want to play in open; those people shouldn't be penalised for that.