Rift vs Vive - my perspective

[vic]

Right now, they can take the Vive. But I'm moving the house around tonight to get set up for room-scale. But still for me, the Rift is a joy to use - you just pop it on and go. The Vive is much better now I'm happy with how it's set up, but the cables are really annoying me and it's still not anywhere near the Rift in comfort fact - and the headphones - that cheesed me off no end with a DK1/2, so I see that as a step back tbh.

I've been warning people who were thinking of getting the Vive for months about the huge annoyance of the cables and extra setup but they always got defensive. I guess it's one of those things that you can only understand once you have one. So glad I did not go for the Vive. Oculus got it right because they were in the VR business way before steam/Vive and so had plenty of time to get feedback from their users. I'm sure next version of Vive will be different...but oculus will still be ahead of them just becuase of a little something called "experience". Anyhow I'm glad to see someone who actually has a Vive let people know how actually annoying the VIve is to use in everyday life.

 

[bitstorm]

This is MY opinion, and I'm trying to be neutral. I actually prefer the Vive visuals

Can I ask what you mean by this please.

My understanding is the Rift is slightly sharper but with smaller FOV (FOV not being much of a deal once you're "in").

Rift has slightly more visible god rays.

For me those descriptions seem very similar but the Rift just wins it out on sharpness which makes reading text a touch easier.

How do you prefer the Vive for visuals?

 

[horizone]

Hi All,

Rift - Cons

Smearing. Watching anything light in a dark Cinema for example highlights it. Also, it's like you're looking through a sheet of thin cloth sometimes - there's a pattern to the blacks/dark colours which wasn't present on the DK1/2 and is due to the freznels - will take some getting used to for light sources in dark environments - for light environments it's not noticable

Your impressions and this thread is a good read but I need to ask you. How is colour gradients looking in the Rift. Is there any banding? For example in the Horizons Logo background and stars coronas. How does black levels look? Do they go smoothly from pitch black and up or is there clear splodges of colour in the dark of space? I am not talking about the god rays or the lenses artifacts.

 

[Gunner Deckard]

Aye, it's constant, as soon as the displays come on. I've tried reseating the cables, DP instead of hdmi, and removed all nearby extraneous electrical devices in case one of them is spewing emf noise, to no avail.

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That's a SteamVR background.

That sucks. Do try updating all firmware. Different USB port.

And go through this thread. You might find something that works.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4eu3uh/how_to_revive_your_nonworking_vive_tips_and_tricks/

 

[[HJ]-RedRaven]

Ok folks, I caved. Got as far as putting an ebay offer together, then discovered I don't have enough ebay karma to put a realistic Buy It Now Price, so I decided it was fate and am now setting up. See you in the (pixelated) void, Cmdrs!

LOL, well done!

Will be interesting to hear your observations too!

Edit: Yikes, that green snow isn't good at all. No way is that intentional.
Looks like a cable, plug, or possibly HDMI problem? Any dust in the HDMI port on the video card? Other than that, yeah, as Gunner suggested, reinstall (vid card drivers too?).

I hope its not a bad chip on the Vive circuitry.

 

[wstephenson]

My green snow seems to come from the Vive's 3 in one cable, specifically the HDMI part. I swapped that connection out for another HDMI cable and the problem went away. Unfortunately all my HDMI cables are 1.5m or less, so the Vive isn't really usable like this. I'll contact Vive support and see about a replacement 3-in-1.

 

[Slopey]

Your impressions and this thread is a good read but I need to ask you. How is colour gradients looking in the Rift. Is there any banding? For example in the Horizons Logo background and stars coronas. How does black levels look? Do they go smoothly from pitch black and up or is there clear splodges of colour in the dark of space? I am not talking about the god rays or the lenses artifacts.

There's no banding as such. Blacks aren't really black on both the Rift and the Vive, there's the lens effects on both which give you the impression that blacks can sometimes look as if there's a textured see-through bit of cloth infront of them (i.e. there's a pattern overlaid on the blacks which is tied to the viewpoint) - but that's due to fresnel - you can't get away from it. But anyway - your brain quickly filters that out and you don't see it.

 

[Slopey]

Can I ask what you mean by this please.

My understanding is the Rift is slightly sharper but with smaller FOV (FOV not being much of a deal once you're "in").

Rift has slightly more visible god rays.

For me those descriptions seem very similar but the Rift just wins it out on sharpness which makes reading text a touch easier.

How do you prefer the Vive for visuals?

I'm likely changing my opinion on that over time to be honest. The main reason I preferred the Vive was the reduced godrays, but now I'm used to it, you still see them, and they highlight the circular fresnel shape which is starting to annoy me a little, but the Rift rays are more noticable, but smoother, if that makes sense.

FoV is identical for me on both devices (save 3-5 extra vertical degrees on the Vive) as I've covered previously.

For text - the Rift is way way better. It has a larger sweet spot for that where as any text you're not looking at in the Vive isn't sharp and has a bit of screen door effect. It's most pronounced in the Vive dashboard where the bottom status bar text is blurry when you're looking at the center menu. I would imagine that it's going to be the same in Elite - i.e. bottom Hud text won't be as sharp in your peripheral vision compared with the Rift, but I can't comment on that at the moment as ED in the Vive is a low res mess with the bug they have currently.

So - to sum up:

Rift - sharper text, but smeary godrays are quite pronounced

Vive - blurry text if not looking at it, but godrays appear less than the Rift


It's difficult to come up with a preference though now I've been using them for a few days. The text in the Vive bothers me, but you don't notice it that much depending what you're playing. The godrays in the Rift bother me, but again, if it's a light/daytime experience, you don't see them. I still prefer the Rift purely for easy of use and ergonomics - I'll sacrifice the godray issue in the name of comfort and convenience every time, as I still can't get the Vive anywhere near as comfy as the Rift.

 

[wstephenson]

After about 1/2 hour in the Vive this morning (despite green snow!) my first impressions confirm what Slopey says. The ergonomics of the head strap together with the bulky cable, headphones and my (average sized) glasses make it a PITA to get into and out of the Vive. I'm giving it a few days but I might well return the Vive and get a Rift when they are commonly available, to use with VR Lens Lab prescription optics.

What Slopey writes about off-centre text clarity is true, although I may be able to tweak IPD and HMD sit further.

I managed to workaround the green snow using a different HDMI cable, so no room scale for me.

At least ED didn't look as bad as I was expecting (VR Low/GTX970) - pre-conditioning myself playing it on Cardboard paid off.

 

[brooksoid]

Another opinion, it may not differ greatly from Slopeys but hey, it's another voice.

On the fresnel smear: I've used the Vive a lot at work, and my Oculus arrived about 10 days ago. I immediately noticed the fresnel smearing - and thought 'hmm, this isn't what I expected' - BUT, and this is an important but, I think Valve devs got the memo that black backgrounds with bright text will show off this artifact to the MAX, whereas Oculus's devs didn't. So - black backgrounds with white text are prevalent in the initial drop of Oculus content loading screens, whereas Vive experiences seem to avoid it. Title sequences such as that in Lucky's Tale with text on a lighter background, or neutral grey spaces - you don't see the smear at all.

I've yet to do a side-by-side comparison of the same content on Vive and Oculus, but with extensive experience of both, I really don't think there's much to separate them in terms of display, apparent FOV, and artifacts.

Build, fit, comfort - it's clear cut. The Oculus is an accomplished piece of design, a remarkable first stab at an HMD. It's surprisingly small, light, neat and simple. The single cable is fairly thin and light, the built in headphones are easily adjusted to fit over your ears, and they sound pretty great. In comparison, the Vive is large, heavy, looks like a prototype - and then there's the cables and headphones.

Of course, the tracking volume is much smaller than the vive, but doesn't preclude standing experiences, with some movement supported. The flip of course is that the tracking device can be placed on your desk, is completely unobtrusive, and silent.

And right now, we have no tracked controllers. This is initially disappointing after using the Vive, and is limiting - but only for a few more months. I hope that by the end of the year, tracked controllers will be considered part of the Oculus, rather than an add-on, and we'll forget they weren't there at launch.

So, CV1 + E? Pretty amazing. New VR-fit interface works great (mouse cursor is oddly borked), text pretty legible, immersion fabulous.
How much will it tax your rig? Well - Frontier aren't joking about the GTX 980 min spec I don't think. Bit too juddery on my GTX970, so I upgraded to a 980Ti.

Performance is pretty perfect on the VR High setting (I do wonder whether it would be fine on the 970 on VR Low) - although I still get the odd hitch around planets. The VR High setting is still conservative - no ambient occlusion, no bloom, no antialiasing, medium shadow and texture resolution, lower draw distance and medium environmental detail I think (from memory).

I can dial some of these up with the 980Ti but usually this will eventually result in some dropped frames. I wonder whether Bloom has been dropped given the fresnel lens's natural bloominess, and whether theres much point antialiasing (pre lens distortion?) for VR headsets, correct me if I'm wrong.

I'd love to have an in-game frame rate so I could examine the hit of turning some of the detail back up - but I have to say, it's still a pretty good looking game at the VR High settings. Definitely miss ambient occlusion though.

I guess my lesson was: even with an almost-best-in-class (right now) GPU, you aren't getting anywhere near Ultra settings in VR!

Hope some of that's useful to someone.

 

[HeavyGroovez]

Another opinion, it may not differ greatly from Slopeys but hey, it's another voice.

On the fresnel smear: I've used the Vive a lot at work, and my Oculus arrived about 10 days ago. I immediately noticed the fresnel smearing - and thought 'hmm, this isn't what I expected' - BUT, and this is an important but, I think Valve devs got the memo that black backgrounds with bright text will show off this artifact to the MAX, whereas Oculus's devs didn't. So - black backgrounds with white text are prevalent in the initial drop of Oculus content loading screens, whereas Vive experiences seem to avoid it. Title sequences such as that in Lucky's Tale with text on a lighter background, or neutral grey spaces - you don't see the smear at all.

I've yet to do a side-by-side comparison of the same content on Vive and Oculus, but with extensive experience of both, I really don't think there's much to separate them in terms of display, apparent FOV, and artifacts.

Build, fit, comfort - it's clear cut. The Oculus is an accomplished piece of design, a remarkable first stab at an HMD. It's surprisingly small, light, neat and simple. The single cable is fairly thin and light, the built in headphones are easily adjusted to fit over your ears, and they sound pretty great. In comparison, the Vive is large, heavy, looks like a prototype - and then there's the cables and headphones.

Of course, the tracking volume is much smaller than the vive, but doesn't preclude standing experiences, with some movement supported. The flip of course is that the tracking device can be placed on your desk, is completely unobtrusive, and silent.

And right now, we have no tracked controllers. This is initially disappointing after using the Vive, and is limiting - but only for a few more months. I hope that by the end of the year, tracked controllers will be considered part of the Oculus, rather than an add-on, and we'll forget they weren't there at launch.

So, CV1 + E? Pretty amazing. New VR-fit interface works great (mouse cursor is oddly borked), text pretty legible, immersion fabulous.
How much will it tax your rig? Well - Frontier aren't joking about the GTX 980 min spec I don't think. Bit too juddery on my GTX970, so I upgraded to a 980Ti.

Performance is pretty perfect on the VR High setting (I do wonder whether it would be fine on the 970 on VR Low) - although I still get the odd hitch around planets. The VR High setting is still conservative - no ambient occlusion, no bloom, no antialiasing, medium shadow and texture resolution, lower draw distance and medium environmental detail I think (from memory).

I can dial some of these up with the 980Ti but usually this will eventually result in some dropped frames. I wonder whether Bloom has been dropped given the fresnel lens's natural bloominess, and whether theres much point antialiasing (pre lens distortion?) for VR headsets, correct me if I'm wrong.

I'd love to have an in-game frame rate so I could examine the hit of turning some of the detail back up - but I have to say, it's still a pretty good looking game at the VR High settings. Definitely miss ambient occlusion though.

I guess my lesson was: even with an almost-best-in-class (right now) GPU, you aren't getting anywhere near Ultra settings in VR!

Hope some of that's useful to someone.

Nice post. I was considering a 980Ti but this reinforces my patience to wait for Pascal.

MSi Afterburner will show you the GPU framerate on the primary adapter (Rift).

 

[jabokai]

Thanks for your views Slopey, nice to a direct comparison from a real user, rather than a tech site.

I don't have a Vive, and have never tried it, but having had a DK1 and DK2 I could simply look at pictures/videos of them both and easily see how much more of a joy to use the Rift would would be. As I mentioned in my (one sided, obviously) opinion of the Rift the headphones and other ergonomics are the killer feature of the Rift, the wands/extra lighthouse is the killer feature of the Vive.

 

[ntsarb]

I've noticed that when I press the Vive hard on my face, to further reduce the eye relief distance (at minimum setting), the blurring at the top and bottom of the lenses goes away.

Are there other people who can confirm this observation?

 

[Gunner Deckard]

At least ED didn't look as bad as I was expecting (VR Low/GTX970) - pre-conditioning myself playing it on Cardboard paid off.

That's good to know. Its less scary, when you put it that way than it being nearly unplayable as other people have made it out to be. I really wanted ED to be a great first VR game for me but I will just have to be tolerant and patient with ED and FD getting some fixes out.

I will be doing my best to stick it out with my Vive when it gets here I think I can maybe get it to fit comfy. And hopefully FD gets some nice IQ tweaks out. I can push the IQ a bit 980ti Heavy OC Watercooled, 4.4 I7-4770k Watercooled, 32Gig Ram. I'm also interested in what Steam can put out I.E. Portal 3 Vive support or HL3 Vive support ext.... So Vive holds more potential for my Gaming needs than Oculus. I will be sure to post my ED opinions when I get my Vive and tweak it out for the best possible graphics and performance with my system.

Vive should be shipping anytime next couple weeks for me.

 

[ntsarb]

That's good to know. Its less scary, when you put it that way than it being nearly unplayable as other people have made it out to be. I really wanted ED to be a great first VR game for me but I will just have to be tolerant and patient with ED and FD getting some fixes out.

I will be doing my best to stick it out with my Vive when it gets here I think I can maybe get it to fit comfy. And hopefully FD gets some nice IQ tweaks out. I can push the IQ a bit 980ti Heavy OC Watercooled, 4.4 I7-4770k Watercooled, 32Gig Ram. I'm also interested in what Steam can put out I.E. Portal 3 Vive support or HL3 Vive support ext.... So Vive holds more potential for my Gaming needs than Oculus. I will be sure to post my ED opinions when I get my Vive and tweak it out for the best possible graphics and performance with my system.

Vive should be shipping anytime next couple weeks for me.

It's better to have lower expectations. I've played ED with the Vive for several hours and I'm having trouble reading some text, eg in the Systems Navigation cards. Also, there's bad aliasing. I find it tiring on my eyes, which is really a pity.

For now, it looks like the higher FOV hurts at the resolution (pixels per degree) level and the game wasn't designed for that low a pixel density.

I'm hoping the developers may be able to optimise the game for the VIVE's specs.

 

[Gunner Deckard]

Yea I'm trying to lower my expectation to rock bottom. That way I have some room to move them up.

 

[[HJ]-RedRaven]

It's better to have lower expectations. I've played ED with the Vive for several hours and I'm having trouble reading some text, eg in the Systems Navigation cards. Also, there's bad aliasing. I find it tiring on my eyes, which is really a pity.

For now, it looks like the higher FOV hurts at the resolution (pixels per degree) level and the game wasn't designed for that low a pixel density.

I'm hoping the developers may be able to optimise the game for the VIVE's specs.

It definitely looks like best-possible fit and adjustment is a must for both units - to get into that 'sweet spot', eye relief, IPD and facial interface pressure all look to play a big part - slopey and wstephenson's commnents agree the Rift design is further ahead. Not to say the Vive is poor, (it will catch up obviously too).

There appears to be a Vive fault with ED's resolution (not sure if its rendering at the stated Vive native res or down-sampling badly?).

Everyone is waiting on a fix from FD/?Valve... presumably then the Vive will be much more similar to the Rift in terms of resolution.

As for expectations, I'm used to playing at 1920x1200 at 50-60fps. I acknowledge the Rift CV1 and Vive are technically lower resolution (for the overall image as you see it), but I'm hoping the increased perceived frame rate at 90fps (with ATW for the CV1) and the immersion/stereoscopic view will more than make up for the loss in display fidelity. Also, I don't think I've even seen a screen with pentile pixels before.

There are too many people stating "Mind. Blown." etc and the problems are generally fairly minor.

I'm enthusiastic. But... CV1 in July/August.

 

[ntsarb]

It definitely looks like best-possible fit and adjustment is a must for both units - to get into that 'sweet spot', eye relief, IPD and facial interface pressure all look to play a big part - slopey and wstephenson's commnents agree the Rift design is further ahead. Not to say the Vive is poor, (it will catch up obviously too).

There appears to be a Vive fault with ED's resolution (not sure if its rendering at the stated Vive native res or down-sampling badly?).

Everyone is waiting on a fix from FD/?Valve... presumably then the Vive will be much more similar to the Rift in terms of resolution.

As for expectations, I'm used to playing at 1920x1200 at 50-60fps. I acknowledge the Rift CV1 and Vive are technically lower resolution (for the overall image as you see it), but I'm hoping the increased perceived frame rate at 90fps (with ATW for the CV1) and the immersion/stereoscopic view will more than make up for the loss in display fidelity. Also, I don't think I've even seen a screen with pentile pixels before.

There are too many people stating "Mind. Blown." etc and the problems are generally fairly minor.

I'm enthusiastic. But... CV1 in July/August.

I can confirm the experience is mind blowing! You sit on the pilot's seat and visually interact with your environment. You find yourself piloting your ship while looking backwards to track the enemy and "read" it's every move, which allows you to correct your steering towards a strategically advantageous position! No monitor setup, of any resolution, can give the feeling of being inside the world of the game.

Hence, low resolution is not a problem in itself. Having trouble with reading the warning messages and navigating the menus is.

I think aliasing in the scenery can be addressed by the developers, using the appropriate rendering techniques and settings, but improving text readability may require more work, eg increasing font size by 1-3 pixels, or bringing the virtual (holographic) screens closer to the pilot seat. Hence, it should be technically feasible to overcome both issues, but it may take time.

Looking forward...

 

[jabokai]

Portal 3 Vive support or HL3 Vive support ext.... So Vive holds more potential for my Gaming needs than Oculus.

Have you pre-ordered the Deluxe Rainbow Unicorn Editions? It's the only confirmed way you'll get them this decade.

 

[wstephenson]

As for expectations, I'm used to playing at 1920x1200 at 50-60fps. I acknowledge the Rift CV1 and Vive are technically lower resolution (for the overall image as you see it), but I'm hoping the increased perceived frame rate at 90fps (with ATW for the CV1) and the immersion/stereoscopic view will more than make up for the loss in display fidelity. Also, I don't think I've even seen a screen with pentile pixels before.

There are too many people stating "Mind. Blown." etc and the problems are generally fairly minor.

You don't think about the actual resolution - because the world is so much 'bigger', the perceived resolution is higher. Right now I think ED's only problems are its graphical fidelity exceeds most gfx hardware's performance, and quite possibly a text mipmapping bug. As every part of the stack gets optimised for VR, ED will only benefit. Without tweaking anything, the only thing I find hard to read on VR Low is small red status text in the comms panel. The situation is very similar to the treatment of 'image quality' on camera forums, where people obsess about minute technical differences peeping at 100% magnified images and never actually take a picture themselves. There will be definite differences in both HMDs just as there are between Canon and Nikon's image processing, but ED on Vive is good enough for me now.

FWIW I didn't play ED last night, spent the evening in the "Mind. Blown." state playing the Lab's mini-games. The CT scan of a human body that you can peer at from every angle makes my head spin (in a good way).